Bobrova and Soloviev out of Worlds

Whether it is on the banned list or not, you'd have to question the morals/ethics of the people who prescribe these young and fit athletes with drugs they do not need.

Ultimately though it is down to the athlete to know what they are putting into their bodies.
 
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Loves_Shizuka said:
The Sharapova case is a little sketchy.
Click to expand...

How is Sharapova's case sketchy? If she knew in advance it would be pretty stupid to continue to take the drug.

I can completely understand how she wouldn't be concerned about a drug called Mildronate, she has taken 10 years for health reasons, and not understand it's this "serious doping drug" according to WADA called Meldronium. I hope she is vindicated after providing her doctor's records.

Loves_Shizuka said:
http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/...-6-weeks-normal-treatment-drug-sharapova-case

According to this, the manufacturer recommends a 4-6 weeks course for meldonium - Sharapova took it for ten years :eek:
Click to expand...

Maybe she took it off and on for 10 years and only took it the 4-6 weeks before the test. We don't know. Also, "the company said Tuesday that it believed the substance would not enhance athletes' performance in competition and might even do the opposite."
 
As far as the doctor mixup possibility, why would a sports doctor have a banned substance ready to inject in an athlete before a competition so that he/she would accidently give it to an athlete?

This seems implausible. Or am I misunderstanding and this was a doctor separate from the sports?
 
BlueRidge said:
As far as the doctor mixup possibility, why would a sports doctor have a banned substance ready to inject in an athlete before a competition so that he/she would accidently give it to an athlete?

This seems implausible. Or am I misunderstanding and this was a doctor separate from the sports?
Click to expand...

There were two doctors, her own doctor, who passed the vial with Bobrova to the other doctor, the one who administrated it to her upon request at Euros.
I think there is room for error here.
 
BlueRidge said:
As far as the doctor mixup possibility, why would a sports doctor have a banned substance ready to inject in an athlete before a competition so that he/she would accidently give it to an athlete?

This seems implausible. Or am I misunderstanding and this was a doctor separate from the sports?
Click to expand...
Quite a few Russian athletes are testing positive for this substance. It could be a case of a widely used drug in Russian sports that wasn't cleared out quickly enough out of the sports doctors' regular "medicine cabinets"? The Russian sports minister even said that he fears that there might be even more cases coming since it was such a frequently used drug in Russian sports until the end of 2015.
 
Coquelicot14 said:
There were two doctors, her own doctor, who passed the vial with Bobrova to the other doctor, the one who administrated it to her upon request at Euros.
I think there is room for error here.
Click to expand...

So Bobrova's doctor had a vial of stuff she was to take before the comp and he gave it to the doctor who was actually there and administered it? So Bobrova's doctor could have accidentally given the wrong stuff, not knowing it had been banned?

Do we know what it was she thought was being administered?
 
Coquelicot14 said:
There were two doctors, her own doctor, who passed the vial with Bobrova to the other doctor, the one who administrated it to her upon request at Euros.
I think there is room for error here.
Click to expand...
Has Bobrova stated in her interview(s) that the vial contained Actovegin or something else?

ETA that I'm asking because "actovegin" was mentioned earlier:
Daena said:
Katya says usually she was very careful about her injections. Her doctor gave her actovegin vials and she handed them over to Dr Shverdsky, team doctor. First injection was made by this doctor before the Short Dance, Katya saw him opening her capsules with her own eyes, but next day, when she asked doctor to come back to hotel, when she came to take injection he was waiting her with full syringe, she didn't see what capsule he used for this syringe. She decided to let it slip because doctor was in a hurry - he needed to go back to the rink
Click to expand...
 
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Katha said:
Quite a few Russian athletes are testing positive for this substance. It could be a case of a widely used drug in Russian sports that wasn't cleared out quickly enough out of the sports doctors' regular "medicine cabinets"? The Russian sports minister even said that he fears that there might be even more cases coming since it was such a frequently used drug in Russian sports until the end of 2015.
Click to expand...

Its a good thing this wasn't a substance that could harm people. :eek:
 
barbarafan said:
It was announced in September 2015 that it would be banned Jan 1 2016 if found in your system Jan 1 2016. That means stop it in September...not take it in November.....They give you 4 months warning so you can stop in time to be clean by January...Where is the confusion?
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Actually, there is no confusion now.....this question was answered yesterday on page three when much of the information was still coming to light.........but thanks? :shuffle:

I do however think doctors need to be held just as responsible as the athletes when 'mistakes' occur. I understand the athlete responsible 100% for what they take, but they have to put their trust in doctors to also know what's right.
 
Coquelicot14 said:
There were two doctors, her own doctor, who passed the vial with Bobrova to the other doctor, the one who administrated it to her upon request at Euros.
I think there is room for error here.
Click to expand...

The one who administered it is the doctor for Mozer's group, he also was with Sinitsina/Katsalapov during their summer altitude training in Russia, so he regularly works with skaters & should be up to date with what is & isn't permitted. If it's a banned substance & he was there only to work with the athletes, why would he even have any of this drug to hand to cause an accidental mix up?
 
BlueRidge said:
So Bobrova's doctor had a vial of stuff she was to take before the comp and he gave it to the doctor who was actually there and administered it? So Bobrova's doctor could have accidentally given the wrong stuff, not knowing it had been banned?

Do we know what it was she thought was being administered?
Click to expand...

Exactly. A mix up could have been on a part of either doctor. Bobrova however said she was very diligent about stopping the medicine that was no longer legal before the January deadline. She thought she was taking the legal stuff.
Now did she double check the vials herself? We don't know.
I understand the argument of trusting a doctor, but I think I agree that it is also the athletes' responsibility to double check things if they are taking something before the competition.
 
We don't know the drug came from the doctor. It could easily be slipped into her drinks, her food.
 
leafygreens said:
How is Sharapova's case sketchy? If she knew in advance it would be pretty stupid to continue to take the drug.
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I think Sharapova has been relatively honest but I don't think it's quite as black and white as she has portrayed it to be.

Do I think she is "guilty" as such - in that, she knowingly took a banned substance in January, in hope of directly improving her performance? No.

However, I'd be surprised if she and/or her team weren't at least aware of it's supposed athletic benefits whilst taking it - whether on or off - for ten years.

It'd be a massive coincidence that the same drug so many other pro athletes are taking to "up their game" is the same one she's so oblivious about, and is only taking to help her with pre-diabetes and a heart concern. It's possible, but I'm skeptical.

Doesn't mean I think she's some awful cheating doper either. The drug was legal until two months ago and I do believe she simply didn't know.
 
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http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160308/902335536.html

More from Bobrova:

-When it was still permitted, she took it to help with heart function when it was put under heavy strain & to aide muscle recovery, but she stopped taking it a month & a half before Euros.
-She declined to have the B sample tested after consulting with the Federation, because they assumed it would only be residual traces & that if they complied with the process it would still be possible to sort everything out & compete at Worlds.
- The federation then received a notification showing the amount that was found in the sample. It was such a large amount that it could only have entered the body in the day prior to testing. (The drug has a very short half life)
- Waiting for the official investigation, but she can't see how it could have been through food & drink, as all the athletes in Bratislava were eating together and she was the only one to test positive.
 
Coquelicot14 said:
Exactly. A mix up could have been on a part of either doctor. Bobrova however said she was very diligent about stopping the medicine that was no longer legal before the January deadline. She thought she was taking the legal stuff.
Now did she double check the vials herself? We don't know.
I understand the argument of trusting a doctor, but I think I agree that it is also the athletes' responsibility to double check things if they are taking something before the competition.
Click to expand...

If it's a doctor from Mozer's group (or any other well known FS group), I would trust the doctor and not ask him/her to recite what is in the drug about to be injected in my body. A doctor is a professional and should be aware of the banned substances too, if he/she is regularly treating athletes.

Berezhnaya's name has been mentioned in this thread as one of the 'Russian cheaters' for her disqualification at the 2000 worlds. She had a cold and an American doctor gave her Sudafed. It happened to contain the banned substance. Tamara admitted that her team made a mistake in not checking the ingredients, and took full responsibility for it. Still, it was just an honest mistake, not 'cheating' as some posters here love to label it. There is nothing 'special' about Sudafed that athletes would use it as PED, but it happened to contain the banned substance. Part of it was also being unfamiliar with the American drug, and perhaps Elena should have asked her team if it was safe for her to take it. It was an honest mistake, but her name will be tarnished forever by those who want to do so.
 
@Sedge, these 2 links were posted earlier in this thread (try the second one that ends with -974642):
morqet said:
http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-skating/news/974811/
She says she's only taken legal drugs - in the lead up to Euros she took Actovegin, which also promotes quick muscle recovery. It's not prohibited in sport under the WADA List of Prohibited Substances and Methods except if it is used by intravenous infusion/injection.

http://www.sport-express.ru/figure-skating/reviews/974642/
ETA: Is this saying she thought it must have been residual traces, but that the test showed it had only been in her body for a short time? She says later that she knew it was banned and had been warned to be careful about it in the autumn.
Click to expand...
Both articles are by Elena V.
 
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pinky166 said:
Why is this substance even illegal? It sounds like it's some sort of treatment for the respiratory system?

Also, are there ever exceptions to these banned substances? Like if someone has bad asthma, it's common to take an inhaled cortico steroid to control the symptoms. Or if you have ADHD, the most commonly prescribed medications are stimulants, so if an athlete was in school and took medication for class/homework/studying or even driving, it would be in their systems even if they didn't take it before training.

Are people with medical conditions simply forced to find alternative substances for treatment? I didn't realize how many items were on that list...
Click to expand...

Corticosteroids and anabolic steroids are not the same thing. It is only the latter that are banned.
 
New interview with Bobrova published today: http://www.olympic.ru/news/news-rus...hlogo-goda-mildronat-iz-moey-aptechki-ischez/

- Узнав об этом, вы наверняка постарались тщательно восстановить хронологию событий.

- Совершенно верно. И пришла к выводу, что единственный препарат, который вводился мне в Братиславе перед соревнованиями, - это актовегин. Он абсолютно легален и используется в профилактических целях как средство для укрепления тонуса.

(Google translation)

- Learning of this, you probably have tried to carefully reconstruct the chronology of events.

- Absolutely. I came to the conclusion that the only drug that was introduced to me in Bratislava before the competition - it aktovegin. It absolutely is legal and is used as a preventive measure as a means to strengthen the tone. [tone = muscle?]

ETA: This is the same interview that is summarized by rsport.ru and @morqet in post #408 above.
 
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Sylvia said:
Has Bobrova stated in her interview(s) that the vial contained Actovegin or something else?

ETA that I'm asking because "actovegin" was mentioned earlier:
Click to expand...

Yes. Here is a direct quote from the sport express article:
"единственный препарат, который вводился мне в Братиславе перед соревнованиями, – это актовегин. Он абсолютно легален."

Actovegin is letter by letter translation, but I am not sure if the name is the same in English.
 
Loves_Shizuka said:
http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/...-6-weeks-normal-treatment-drug-sharapova-case


According to this, the manufacturer recommends a 4-6 weeks course for meldonium - Sharapova took it for ten years :eek:
Click to expand...

Regardless of why Sharapova started taking it, my guess is that she continued taking it for non-medical reasons. I mean, I believe she has a serious heart condition like I believe all of Bob Kersee's athletes had asthma, you know? My guess is this is why her sponsors are treating her like tp on the bottom of their shoe. But still, it was legal while she was taking it, so I don't really have a problem with that. It is what it is.

As for which athlete showed more class, well I'm totally biased. But I respect Bobrova for admitting why she took it while it was legal.

Thinking of Bobrova's situation, I'm reminded of a story Oksana Chusovitina told to explain, in part, why she moved to Germany to get treatment for her son when he had cancer. She said at a major hospital in either Russia or Uzbekistan (can't remember), the chemotherapy drugs were replaced with placebos and sold on the black market by someone with access to the medicine. So children were put through chemo, or so they thought, but received placebos and died.

Everyone in Russia is feeling the pinch economically. With Bobrova clearly receiving this injection at Euros, only weeks after the drug was banned, it wouldn't surprise me if someone - realizing there was suddenly no market for Meldonium - labeled it as something else, just so it could be sold.
 
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