canbelto
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Ok what do you think?
Ok what do you think?
Shannon Miller. Gutsu should have never competed. Does that count?
Shannon Miller. Gutsu should have never competed. Does that count?
Obviously, Yang Tae-Young also deserved gold, but the South Korean federation did not file the protest about his parallel bars start value in time under FIG rules. I always thought the FIG weaseled out of a decision by suggesting Paul Hamm hand over the gold medal. The chicken shit FIG should have made a firm decision and stuck with it instead of leaving the decision to Hamm (and I am no Hamm fan).
Thank you Rob, I had completely forgotten about Hamm's crappy vault. All in all, 2004 men's AA was as bad a result as the women's in 2000 with the vault fiasco, cheating Chinese, and Raducan's cold medicine.So I voted for Yang Tae Young. Yes, the protest wasn't filed in time, but the judges should have gotten it right. Plus, Hamm was not scored harshly enough for that vault mess. Should have been in the 8s. If the judges table were not there, he might have fallen off the podium. Tim Daggett immediately said you can't win the Olympic AA with a fall like that. I think he should have been right. In fact, I'd vote for Kim Dae Eun over Hamm since the Yang protest wasn't filed in time.
I do think that if we were doing Gutsu vs. Miller by today's CoP the competition would not have been so close. Gutsu's D score would have been much higher than Miller's.
That's true. But Gutsu always had form issues. And the judges always ignored it. It always shocked me that she came up thru the Soviet system and that was never dealt with. Gymnastics is supposed to be about more than just doing the tricks.I do think that if we were doing Gutsu vs. Miller by today's CoP the competition would not have been so close. Gutsu's D score would have been much higher than Miller's.
That's true. But Gutsu always had form issues. And the judges always ignored it. It always shocked me that she came up thru the Soviet system and that was never dealt with. Gymnastics is supposed to be about more than just doing the tricks.
Yes, thank you!Gymnastics is supposed to be about more than just doing the tricks.
Or making deals in smoke-filled rooms.I always thought that the judges were just throwing up numbers just for sh*ts and giggles at that point.
Yes, thank you!
I appreciate the big tricks, but just like in figure skating, the artistry is what separates it from becoming just another circus act.
I am a fan of balletic gymnastics, of the gymnast that can make the observer feel like they can do the exercise because it appears so effortless and light. Still, the trend, especially with the AA competition, and since Nastia, is all about the big trick(s). E.g., Simone, who is terrific, btw, but whose gymnastics are pure TNT.
Or making deals in smoke-filled rooms.
I totally agree with you. I miss the compulsories so much. The moves were considered "simple" (not), but they were so beautiful to watch because of the simplicity and the various interpretations of the same exercises.I've been watching a lot of 60's and 70's gymnastics lately and on the whole it's way more appealing than the sport is today. I love FX with a live pianist; there is a musical relationship that develops and it really helps the gymnasts with innate musicality give flight to their artistry. The choreography was inventive and coherent and tumbles were just a part of the choreographic whole. Bars was beautiful and so intricate when the bars are so much closer together. Beam was about beauty and line. Vault is perhaps the one apparatus that is underwhelming compared to today but if I have to choose between the likes of 60's greats like Caslavska and Kuchinskaya on FX or Jade Carey and her big tumbles with zero choreo and expression, I'll take the 1960's any day of the week.
I'm not sold on the argument that Miller should have won the 1992 Olympic AA competition. While she deserved a 10 on the vault and Gutsu was overscored on FX, I thought Miller was overscored on UB (low release moves caught with bent arms and a dismount that hugged the high bar), BB (can't believe she scored higher than Gutsu with lesser difficulty and 2 noticeable wobbles), and FX (lower difficulty and not great amplitude on her tumbling runs, not to mention horribly prissy dancing).
Position | Gymnast | V | UB | Beam | Floor | Total |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Tatiana Gutsu (EUN) | 9.950 | 9.950 | 9.912 | 9.925 | 39.737 |
2 | 9.975 | 9.925 | 9.925 | 9.900 | 39.725 |
Position | Gymnast | V | UB | Beam | Floor | Total |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2 | Tatiana Gutsu (EUN) | 9.950 | 9.950 | 9.925 | 9.900 | 39.725 |
1 | 10.000 | 9.925 | 9.900 | 9.925 | 39.750 |
Your comments are extremely inconsistent because Miller was prissy on EVERYTHING
☀
The Actual Results were:
Position Gymnast V UB Beam Floor Total 1 Tatiana Gutsu (EUN)9.950 9.950 9.912 9.925 39.737 2 9.975 9.925 9.925 9.900 39.725
After rewatching the footage, I would have scored it:
Position Gymnast V UB Beam Floor Total 2 Tatiana Gutsu (EUN)9.950 9.950 9.925 9.900 39.725 1 10.000 9.925 9.900 9.925 39.750
In the end, it still comes down to the vault and floor.
So here's a question and a "What if?" about the 1992 AA.
Lysenko is one of my all-time faves. Let's say she gets her EF score on beam in the AA - 9.975. And lets say she doesn't mess up her DLO on FX, doesn't lose a 0.1 and scores a 9.9, a reasonable and doable score for her on that, in line with the way FX was being scored.
Add those two scores to her 9.962 on vault and 9.900 on UB = 39.737
EXACTLY what Gutsu got to win gold. Would there have a been a tie/joint gold as there were in the EF or was there a tiebreaker for the AA?
(I appreciate this is a very convenient "what if" that doesn't change anyone else's scores, but please indulge me as a poor Lysenko fan )
I only learned this week that Maxi Gnauck tied for silver in the AA with Nadia in 1980, and Maxi was leading after Team Optionals while Nadia was 4th and Davydova was 5th.
I have not seen the whole Team Event and AA because much of it is blocked by the IOC on YouTube, but it is possible that Maxi had as much a claim as, let us say Miller, because as far as I can tell she hit every routine with consistently high scores and included a lot of difficulty.