Which beloved or highly regarded skaters do you personally NOT love or highly regard??

[canbelto]

Another one was Nancy Kerrigan. I understood she had fairly good jump technique and basic skating skills but her programs left me cold. She's also one of those skaters where for whatever reason I felt like she looked too tense for me to enjoy her skating.

 

[Lemonade20]

Another one was Nancy Kerrigan. I understood she had fairly good jump technique and basic skating skills but her programs left me cold. She's also one of those skaters where for whatever reason I felt like she looked too tense for me to enjoy her skating.

YES!!!! She was a beautiful woman but the epitome of cold ice princess. I’m glad she didn’t win the OGM.

 

[Japanfan]

I also found them having a vanity reality show really tacky - and from what I heard the content was just as tacky as the idea.

I enjoyed the show. It gave me some insight into their lives.

The gossip from Michigan skaters and V/M's reaction to winning the silver in Sochi didn't help that image of them being vane and tacky, which made their skating seem even less interesting to me.

What was their reaction?

They must have know D&W were likely to get that gold - a whole lot of people anticipated that happening.

 

[Willin]

@Japanfan
As for their reaction, they did 0 to dispute their fans' conspiracy theories. For instance, they talked at length in an interview that they thought Marina was ignoring them in favor of D/W that season, and implied that's why they lost. The article points out his was unlikely the reason they lost. And while Scott does say in the article that he doesn't think the result was predetermined, this quote:

Mr. Moir regrets the competition was engulfed in controversy after a French sports publication alleged the judges in Sochi were conspiring to give the gold to Ms. Davis and Mr. White. Those rumours gained speed when few could explain the difference between the Canadians' performance and that of the Americans, despite a nearly five-point difference from the judges.

Such problems have dogged the sport for years, Mr. Moir said. "It's too bad that's the headline no matter what," he said, adding, "I don't mind it particularly in this case."

makes it seem like he's promoting the controversy for whatever reason.

Idk, both things just rubbed me a very wrong way. It's one thing to say "we didn't like our coach" and another to subtly put down your competitors and "friends" by implying that they only won because you were cheated out of the win.

 

[Japanfan]

It's surprising that Scott would be a sore loser. And a hot head.

I loved V/M the first time I saw them, skating to Valse Triste at 2006 Skate Canada in Victoria. Seeing them compete live at the 2010 Olympics in all three phases and win the OGM has been one of the highlights of my entire life.

This has obviously colored my positive perception of them. Though TBH I don't think I would care much for Scott at all should I meet him in person.

As for their reaction, they did 0 to dispute their fans' conspiracy theories. For instance, they talked at length in an interview that they thought Marina was ignoring them in favor of D/W that season, and implied that's why they lost. The article points out his was unlikely the reason they lost.

I pretty thought TBTB planned one OGM for V/M and one for D/W. So Marina would have favored D/W for 2014. But this should not have come as a surprise to Scott.

The 2018 Gold - now that was a surprise, IMO. Not what TPTB had predicted, even planned.

 

[Willin]

@Japanfan I'm sure V/M having injuries and having to sit out hurt their standing vs. D/W more than Marina. It certainly hampered their difficulty in comparison.
I also wonder how much else went into it. Perhaps D/W spent more money and training time. Perhaps, as the article suggests, V/M's style was falling out of vogue and they didn't want to change with the times, meaning Marina could only do so much with what V/Mwanted to do. Maybe some of the rink drama played into it or maybe Marina wasn't into the whole reality show and tried to focus on less drama causing couples like D/W and the Shib Sibs. I doubt we'll ever really know.

 

[DBZ]

Another one was Nancy Kerrigan. I understood she had fairly good jump technique and basic skating skills but her programs left me cold.

Speaking of disliking a skater's choreography vs their actual skating, I feel like Nancy falls into the former for me. I definitely am not a fan of Mary Scotvold's choreography, and I think that played a huge role in shaping Nancy's skating and why it came off looking so pedestrian.

Placed into different, more artistic hands, I think Nancy could've become a really interesting skater to watch. She had the basics.

But I remember Jenny Kirk said that was the deal when working with the Scotvolds--Evy coached, Mary did the choreography. No seeking outside choreographers, which I think is such a disservice to their skaters if true.

Then again, Nancy always seemed like an extremely insular, controlled person, which probably connected with Mary's structured, paint by numbers choreography.

 

[bardtoob]

Yuna Kim: Her shady tweet to Orser is the only interesting thing she ever did, IMO.

I don’t remember that one?

Probably the infamous "Stop lying B."

I think it turned off a lot of fans because it sounds too immature for her age and life experience.

 

[VGThuy]

@Japanfan I'm sure V/M having injuries and having to sit out hurt their standing vs. D/W more than Marina. It certainly hampered their difficulty in comparison.
I also wonder how much else went into it. Perhaps D/W spent more money and training time. Perhaps, as the article suggests, V/M's style was falling out of vogue and they didn't want to change with the times, meaning Marina could only do so much with what V/Mwanted to do. Maybe some of the rink drama played into it or maybe Marina wasn't into the whole reality show and tried to focus on less drama causing couples like D/W and the Shib Sibs. I doubt we'll ever really know.

She certainly didn’t focus on the Shibsibs or at least she wasn’t capable. They had to outsource and do their own choreography for their FDs (and did their own music editing with help from non-skating sources) even when they were her only top team. Of course she did edit and clean it up and offered them moral support that they seemed to love.

 

[clairecloutier]

But their skating is all very different from each other. ?‍

It is??

 

[oleada]

For me, it’s skaters who I can see have tremendous talent but make me feel absolutely nothing, or whose programs seem completely uninteresting.

Yuna Kim
Davis/White
Virtue/Moir
Chock/Bates
Shibutanis

I’ve seen the latter 3 live and my opinion didn’t change.

 

[casken]

@Japanfan
makes it seem like he's promoting the controversy for whatever reason.

Idk, both things just rubbed me a very wrong way. It's one thing to say "we didn't like our coach" and another to subtly put down your competitors and "friends" by implying that they only won because you were cheated out of the win.

Which is why I don't mind suggesting (just suggesting! ) that the only reason V&M came back is becuase they got a deal to win in 2018. P&C would lose the SD, but win the FD to make it look close. The dress coming undone was a lucky coincidence.
P&C skate on until 2022 rather than retiring. Win, win.

Again, not saying that happened, but just throwing it out there like Scott.

 

[VGThuy]

If a conspiracy had to made to make 2018 happen, then I'm glad it did. It was justified. Just like:

 

[Fiero425]

Which is why I don't mind suggesting (just suggesting! ) that the only reason V&M came back is because they got a deal to win in 2018. P&C would lose the SD, but win the FD to make it look close. The dress coming undone was a lucky coincidence.

P&C skate on until 2022 rather than retiring. Win, win.

Again, not saying that happened, but just throwing it out there like Scott.

Skating has been corrupt and "shady" as any sport in the history of competition! It isn't helped when the admin. (past FS Prez. Conchita and Olymp. "Excellency" Samaranch) were just as bad as any corruption they were supposed to protect the sport from! It's gotten so blatant that it's well known and an open secret when it comes to deals and inconsistent scoring; even with the new system!

 

[sap5]

Eh I got tired of alot of the moves she'd put in every program for G&G. Like them "kissing" in programs reminded me of the choreographed kisses I saw later in V&M programs.

Which Zoueva programs for G&G featured "kissing"? The only one I can think of is Vocalise?

It wasn't until years later that I realized that I was actually tired of Marina Zoueva's choreography and how once she found a formula for a pair she'd repeat that formula ad nauseum.

Which G&G programs choreographed by Marina do you find so similar that you'd say she's repeating a formula?

 

[tony]

Which is why I don't mind suggesting (just suggesting! ) that the only reason V&M came back is becuase they got a deal to win in 2018. P&C would lose the SD, but win the FD to make it look close. The dress coming undone was a lucky coincidence.
P&C skate on until 2022 rather than retiring. Win, win.

Again, not saying that happened, but just throwing it out there like Scott.

There's no way in hell that 9 judges conspired that closely with exact marks to guarantee that this would happen. Gone are the days when you only need 5 to come up with marks for team A that beat team B.

ETA- if we were to use that logic (all judges had a plan), then they had an extremely easy out in the SD by marking the PCS down a bit for the tentativeness, but they still were handed a bunch of 10.00 scores which even I (wanting them to win) thought was over the top, even if it was out of their control.

 

[canbelto]

Which Zoueva programs for G&G featured "kissing"? The only one I can think of is Vocalise?

Reverie ...

 

[sap5]

Reverie ...

She didn't choreograph Reverie. That was choreographed by Michael Seibert.

I have a feeling that most of the G&G programs you think were choreographed by Marina actually weren't.

 

[overedge]

Speaking of disliking a skater's choreography vs their actual skating, I feel like Nancy falls into the former for me. I definitely am not a fan of Mary Scotvold's choreography, and I think that played a huge role in shaping Nancy's skating and why it came off looking so pedestrian.

Placed into different, more artistic hands, I think Nancy could've become a really interesting skater to watch. She had the basics.

But I remember Jenny Kirk said that was the deal when working with the Scotvolds--Evy coached, Mary did the choreography. No seeking outside choreographers, which I think is such a disservice to their skaters if true.

Then again, Nancy always seemed like an extremely insular, controlled person, which probably connected with Mary's structured, paint by numbers choreography.

I agree. I saw Nancy skate in a show, on very small tank ice, and I was blown away by the quality of her edges and her technique. She also was a lot more expressive and joyful than in any of her competitive programs.

I think the Scotvolds decided on the "Ice Princess"/"Irish Katarina" image and choreographed to that. IMO it was a less than optimal match between a pretty traditional choreographic style and a skater who needed to be pushed a bit to open up.

 

[MacMadame]

It is??

Do you really think Trusova and Shcherbakova in particular skate the same? What about Zag and Med? They all have different styles and different strengths and weaknesses.

ETA on a different note, is Nancy Kerrigan really a beloved skater?

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Do you really think Trusova and Shcherbakova in particular skate the same? What about Zag and Med? They all have different styles and different strengths and weaknesses

They may have different strengths and weaknesses,but every one of their programs are brimming with meaningless movements with little connection to the music,most of which is modern garbage. I'm afraid what they're doing is closer to gymnastics than figure skating.

I often require a sedative and/or a cigarette after they skate.

ETA on a different note, is Nancy Kerrigan really a beloved skater?

In the Bottems household,Miss Kerrigan is next to godliness.

-BB

 

[overedge]

ETA on a different note, is Nancy Kerrigan really a beloved skater?

Yes. In addition to what I said above, I admire her for sticking with the sport for so long. And her instructional book is really good - she knows a lot about skating and the analyses of how each element works are very thoughtful.

Amazon.com

 

[mjb52]

Looking back, the way Kerrigan was treated in the public eye was pretty awful. What happened to her was sort of treated as a joke after the initial shock. I think because she fortunately wasn't seriously injured, it made it easier to transition into the insane media spectacle afterward, which treated everything in a very cartoonish way. I was originally a huge Harding fan and didn't like Kerrigan at all, so I'm not speaking from a perspective of having been particularly enlightened at the time.

 

[MacMadame]

but every one of their programs are brimming with meaningless movements with little connection to the music,most of which is modern garbage.

But it's all different garbage.

 

[Aerobicidal]

But it's all different garbage.

I'm not sure how or why Eteri's skaters having different music affects any of the logical and cogent points Miss Bottems articulated in her prior post. This seems like a non-response to me.

 

[overedge]

Looking back, the way Kerrigan was treated in the public eye was pretty awful. What happened to her was sort of treated as a joke after the initial shock. I think because she fortunately wasn't seriously injured, it made it easier to transition into the insane media spectacle afterward, which treated everything in a very cartoonish way. I was originally a huge Harding fan and didn't like Kerrigan at all, so I'm not speaking from a perspective of having been particularly enlightened at the time.

IIRC Kerrigan has admitted that she didn't always behave as tactfully as she could have during that time. She was also pushed into a lot of situations (like hosting Saturday Night Live) that she wasn't prepared for, or that she had the skills to carry off successfully.

 

[Lemonade20]

Looking back, the way Kerrigan was treated in the public eye was pretty awful. What happened to her was sort of treated as a joke after the initial shock. I think because she fortunately wasn't seriously injured, it made it easier to transition into the insane media spectacle afterward, which treated everything in a very cartoonish way. I was originally a huge Harding fan and didn't like Kerrigan at all, so I'm not speaking from a perspective of having been particularly enlightened at the time.

I always thought she was very standoff-ish. I still think Harding was one of the most talented and unfortunately misunderstood skaters of her time. No one was ready for someone like her to reach the podium and land the first triple axel. I feel like we're judging more on personality than skating.

 

[overedge]

I always thought she was very standoff-ish. I still think Harding was one of the most talented and unfortunately misunderstood skaters of her time. No one was ready for someone like her to reach the podium and land the first triple axel. I feel like we're judging more on personality than skating.

I agree, I think Harding was and is totally under-rated. Re Kerrigan, I think she was more shy than anything else, and that came across as her being snooty and stand-offish.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm not sure how or why Eteri's skaters having different music affects any of the logical and cogent points Miss Bottems articulated in her prior post. This seems like a non-response to me.

I didn't say anything about the music. I was responding to "every one of their programs are brimming with meaningless movements with little connection to the music"

The movements may be meaningless to the OP and she may not see any connection with the music, but that doesn't mean they are all the same. These skaters all have different styles. They aren't all doing the same movements at all.

 

[bardtoob]

The truth is Kerrigan was a very skilled skater. However, she skated for herself, not unlike Fratianne, and she was also that way in life, which is why she said something was corny when she thought it was corny.

People begrudge the fact that Nancy did actually do a very sound technically high level program with a 3T-3T, 3Lz, 3Lp, 3S-2T, 2A, and 2F at the Olympics at age 24 and still lost to somebody who used her performance quality to hide she was loosing her jumps at age 16. Kerrigan did numerically tie for the win, but lost on the tiebreaker. There is a moral victory in that, which Americans, in particular, despise.

If you watch Kerrigan's Olympic LP in HD (preferably in a language you don't understand or without commentary), her Olympic performance is so good it almost looks like a TV commercial.

[HD] Nancy Kerrigan - 1994 Lillehammer Olympic - Free Skating

Nancy Kerrigan / Нэнси Керриган / ナンシー・ケリガン [HD] 1994 Lillehammer Olympics - Playlists Ladies Technical Program: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgo7E...

www.youtube.com