What rule changes would you like to see for the next quad? (2026-2029)

[Sylvia]

@tony, would you like to copy over what you just posted into this thread?

 

[tony]

Of course the elements require so many frills and nonsense that they don't often match the music. How many skaters are doing an illusion or that dumb sliding movement out of a spin and it actually makes choreographic sense?

I have said this so many times, but I think a big key to a lot of these problems is getting rid of the leveled step sequence in the free skates. The skaters do them in whichever pattern they'd like now, and it's often just a redux of whatever they did in the short. They spend about 30-45 seconds on these sequences to gain a whole 4-5 points.

Take that away, there's more time for 'choreography' but I am fearful of what the ISU technical committees for pairs and singles' skating would come up with if they go the way of choreographic elements. We see in dance that it's mostly just a way to hand out massive GOE to top skaters, and some of the choreographic elements as a whole are just meh.

IJS has also (through several different rule changes since the inception) almost guaranteed the jump - jump - jump - jump - spin - step seq - (now exactly 2:00 minute mark) jump - jump - jump - choreo seq - spin - spin layout for singles skaters. What Zagitova did (and pulled off most of the time) is so much more exciting than that fill in the elements template. In adding choreo elements in dance, they've almost guaranteed skaters are going to change rhythm and energy to some remix to do their character step at the end of the program, too.

 

[On My Own]

I would remove figure skating from the Olympic roster.

Also whoever calls it an artform should be tried by the ICC.

I'm not sure I'm joking either for that second one, and the first one is dead serious.

 

[Karen-W]

I would remove figure skating from the Olympic roster.

Also whoever calls it an artform should be tried by the ICC.

I'm not sure I'm joking either for that second one, and the first one is dead serious.

Still as cranky as you were earlier in the week when you ripped into the Finlandia competitors, I see. You must be such a joy for your loved ones to be around.

I'd like to see the SPTC get rid of one of the jumping passes in the FS for pairs - have just one SBS combo jumping pass.

 

[Marta24]

No choreo elements in the RD. Since the ISU doesn't want to bring the pattern back, I'm not sure what element they could do instead. Additionally, I would like to see a reduction of the GOE given to the choreo elements in the FD. The way the judges can use these "elements" to get the result they want, is getting ridiculous.

 

[On My Own]

You must be such a joy for your loved ones to be around.

Bye.

 

[On My Own]

About the "rules" part, they need to tone down the leveled steps for singles. I disagree with ditching them altogether. The leveled steps in 2006-2008 showed that the steps can be rather musical and end up having more content to them than they did in 6.0 (apart from a select few, like Petr Barna and Browning). I think the level rules between 2006-08 should be looked at for steps. Can also ditch the level 4 from those, but I think it was fine. And yes, with patterns, as was the case.

Spins can be limited to level 3 and some features should be double counted. Don't have a problem beyond that, apart from how mediocre positions get good GOE, but that's a judging issue. Oh, count the standard camel and layback as "difficult positions", instead of the layover camel and sideways positions for those two types.

Choreo sequence should be replaced with the 2010-12 rules for men and women - choreo steps and choreo spirals respectively. If men want to show off spirals, they can do so as transitions. If women want to show more steps, they can choreograph simple ones between elements in a clear pattern.

Bring back steps into solo jump, in the SP.

Uhh, that's it? If this is done, then I don't need to see an additional jump being dropped in the LP. Maybe limit maximum quads to 3 per program, so everyone does some combination of 4Lz, 4F, 4Lo.

IDC about ice dance, but I think the levels need to exist there just to make sure there's some "objective" way of judging it. It's less of a requirement in singles and pairs, as long as the jumps aren't magically judged to be rotated if they're not, or that they're taking off correct edges if they're not.

Not the place to talk about SoV and BV I guess, but value loop combos properly, and ditch those +axel sequences as real combos, and disallow them altogether from three jump combos.

ETA: To make it clear, none of these things will happen. Figure skating will continue to be judged in the same way it always has been - thereby making it a farcical sport and not deserving to be part of the Olympics. And it will not look remotely aesthetically pleasing with the way it's going with uninteresting and uninspiring choreography to boot, thereby making it the opposite of an art (and while it was never an art IMO, it at least used to look halfway good before).

People here might not like hearing it. But viewers mostly stick around for the sake of drama during winter Olympics, and then promptly leave after half of the next season because they can't bring themselves to like what they're watching. It's too expensive to watch in the rink to ramp up any interest, and it's even more expensive to get your kids into (and that's before we get to how unsafe the sport is for children). So meh.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

ban the single or double axle sequence in pairs. They’re always 5 miles apart and they’re never done properly.

Anoint Amber queen of women’s singles

Re-institute the Layback without a Biellman position and a spiral sequence as required elements in the woman’s short program

Bring back nations cup or Grand Prix Italy, and eliminate COC for a while

ANL must approve all music choices by anyone who enters an ISU competition

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I have said this so many times, but I think a big key to a lot of these problems is getting rid of the leveled step sequence in the free skates. The skaters do them in whichever pattern they'd like now, and it's often just a redux of whatever they did in the short. They spend about 30-45 seconds on these sequences to gain a whole 4-5 points.

On top of a no level step sequences in the free, I think only one spin in the free skate should have levels.

 

[gkelly]

Should there be one program where difficulty is paramount and the other program should emphasize choreography?

There are two approaches to change the current Singles competition phases to accomplish that.

1:
*Short technical program allows maximum difficulty in the required three jump elements (including quints for men, quads for women, but same minimum requirements as now exist) and also requires leveled spins and step sequences
*Longer free program allows five or six jump passes and also includes several choreographic elements -- maybe one leveled spin and one leveled sequence, but the rest choreo. Or maybe offer a variety of different kinds of choreo or leveled elements that allow skaters to pick and choose which kinds of elements they will use to earn points, so all programs don't follow the same template.

or

2:
*Long technical program remains pretty much the same as the current free skate. Take out the choreo sequence, and either bring the senior version down to 3:30, or just keep it at 4:00 but allow for more breathing room
*Long (3:30?) artistic program with maybe 4 jump elements and multiple kinds of choreographic elements

In the second approach, the order of the two phases could be flipped from one competition to the next.

If the idea is to reward technical content in on program and artistic coherence in the other, the PCS factors could be tweaked so that the technical program will have more point-earning opportunities for elements than the maximum PCS can achieve, but the maximum tech score achievable in the artistic program would not exceed the PCS maximum for that program.

There could be a cap in the artistic program on the number of difficult jumps (quads and quints, and also 3A for women) -- one or two from that category allowed for great jumpers to show off their best skills in a choreographically coherent context, but just stalking difficult jumps to build up tech scores in that program would score less than a great program well performed with easier jumps.

If it's a combined event, the great jumpers will build up big leads in the technical program anyway.

 

[barbk]

• Reduce the overall weight of the short program.
• Bring back specific step sequences. Way too much rambling in the woods now.
• Get rid of knee slides and the like as required elements
• Randomize skate order within the top half and within the bottom half of the field in the SP.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

• Reduce the overall weight of the short program.
• Bring back specific step sequences. Way too much rambling in the woods now.
• Get rid of knee slides and the like as required elements
• Randomize skate order within the top half and within the bottom half of the field in the SP.

Yessss to all, specially the last one

 

[emason]

Could we please have a hiatus for twizzles in ice dance for a bit? I keep thinking back to some of the great routines of the past that had nary a twizzle in sight. Twizzles are so damn boring at the moment. (To me, at least. YMMV.)

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Holy moly, I’m gonna just put this right here, I’m on the gram right now and look at this video of one of my absolute favorites Emily Hughes. Say what you will, but take a look at this backwards Charlotte … is it better than Michelle? Right into her classic classic lay back spin position oh my gosh, I could watch this all day. ????

The real triple lutz on Instagram: "#emilyhughes #laybackspin"

45K likes, 132 comments - the_real_triple_lutz on September 25, 2024: "#emilyhughes #laybackspin".

www.instagram.com

 

[dancefan17]

I would like to see the musical requirements for the rhythm dance go back to including more traditional, identifiable dances that build upon the compulsories (waltz, latin dances, etc.) and get rid of the ‘music of the decade’ and ‘folk’ dance themes. I would also like the choreographic sequences (with crazy positive GOE) minimized or eliminated. I don’t think rhythm dances should have a lower weight than the FD- would keep that as it is.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I would like to see the musical requirements for the rhythm dance go back to including more traditional, identifiable dances that build upon the compulsories (waltz, latin dances, etc.) and get rid of the ‘music of the decade’ and ‘folk’ dance themes. I would also like the choreographic sequences (with crazy positive GOE) minimized of eliminated. I don’t think rhythm dances should have a lower weight than the FD- would keep that as it is.

I stand by everything you mentioned

 

[farahfan]

• Reduce the overall weight of the short program.
• Bring back specific step sequences. Way too much rambling in the woods now.
• Get rid of knee slides and the like as required elements
• Randomize skate order within the top half and within the bottom half of the field in the SP.

I agree with the knee slides. HD photography now gives us busted up knees plastered with band-aids and it ain't pretty.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Dare I say bring back 6.0/10.0? Or no…

 

[farahfan]

Still as cranky as you were earlier in the week when you ripped into the Finlandia competitors, I see. You must be such a joy for your loved ones to be around.

I'd like to see the SPTC get rid of one of the jumping passes in the FS for pairs - have just one SBS combo jumping pass.

Someone showed me a pairs segment where the couple did all four death spirals one after another and I would way rather see that than another botched SBS jump.

 

[tony]

Someone showed me a pairs segment where the couple did all four death spirals one after another and I would way rather see that than another botched SBS jump.

The Protopopovs? They did it in gala skates and they were all glorious.

Most teams wouldn't be able to match that, though, as evidenced by the required death spiral this season

ETA- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d61t0KQFa_g#t=4m25

 

[Rukia]

remove the 2 rhythm requirement for the free dance i've lived through too many wicked game dance parties i shouldn't be made to suffer this way

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I would like to see the musical requirements for the rhythm dance go back to including more traditional, identifiable dances that build upon the compulsories (waltz, latin dances, etc.) and get rid of the ‘music of the decade’ and ‘folk’ dance themes. I would also like the choreographic sequences (with crazy positive GOE) minimized of eliminated. I don’t think rhythm dances should have a lower weight than the FD- would keep that as it is.

Take a look at this, I wanted to find a North American example, but I’m in a hurry when I watch this this in no way says ice dance to me … it says acrobatics on ice or Cirque du Soleil on ice and I feel like this is what ice dancing has become. Where is the dance? And that first lift her arms are restrained. Could you imagine if they fell. I just don’t think this is ice dancing anymore. It’s evolved into something chaotic and Like gymnastics.

Figure Skating Delight ⛸️ ? on Instagram: "A couple striking moments from Khavronina & Narizhniy’s FD ? @ira_khavronina #irinakhavronina @unreal_chic #davidnarizhniy #khavroninanarizhniy #figureskating #фигурноекатание"

17K likes, 154 comments - fs.delight on September 17, 2024: "A couple striking moments from Khavronina & Narizhniy’s FD ? @ira_khavronina #irinakhavronina @unreal_chic #davidnarizhniy #khavroninanarizhniy #figureskating #фигурноекатание".

www.instagram.com

I mean, this is fine as a sport, but I would not call this ice dancing.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

No choreo elements in the RD. Since the ISU doesn't want to bring the pattern back, I'm not sure what element they could do instead. Additionally, I would like to see a reduction of the GOE given to the choreo elements in the FD. The way the judges can use these "elements" to get the result they want, is getting ridiculous.

Yeah, the "Choreographic Rhythm Sequence" makes no sense. Shouldn't all of the choreo in the RD reflect the prescribed rhythm?

 

[Evgeniafan]

Yessss to all, specially the last one

I agree too.

 

[Coco]

Thank you, @Sylvia for this topic.

Big picture, I want GOE to be assessed by the caller and technical specialists. But this would require moving some of the GOE bullets to PCS categories.

I think the SP should emphasize technique and allow skaters with good technique to succeed. The FS should be, well, free

To accomplish this, how about the following:

Short Program
-For the 4 jumps in the SP, 2 must be edge jumps (axel + another edge jump) and 2 must be toe-assisted jumps
-No cap on difficulty for solo jump and axel jump
-Combo spin: minimum 2 positions per foot, no position counted after 2nd change of foot; not leveled, just judged on GOE
-Step sequence replaced with a specific patterned step sequence + 2 optional turns on each foot (before or after pattern);
*level assessed based on 1) depth of edges, 2) ice coverage, 3) difficulty of optional turns, and 4) difficulty of how optional turns are arranged relative to pattern and/or other optional turns;
*turns in each direction on each foot mandatory for Level 3 and Level 4

Free Skate
-Replace step sequence with a 2nd choreo sequence; figure out how to require that the two choreo sequences be substantially different; repeating SP patterned step sequence won't count
-10% bonus applied to last jumping pass and two highest value jumping passes (not including last jumping pass) after 2 minutes

Scale of values
-Lutz redefined as requiring skater to sustain the back outside edge for specific time or distance prior to takeoff
-Basic layback spin position and all layback variations are treated as difficult variations of an upright spin; layback spin is no longer a it's own category of spin
-2 position combo spins get their own value

 

[Ananas Astra]

I want the spiral sequence back for the Ladies' SP.
And side-by-side spins for Pairs in both programs.

 

[Icetalavista]

I so agree with having fewer solo jump requirements for pairs. The point of pairs is what you can do together, and since so few pairs can complete all those solo jumps without errors, it just mars a lot of programs.

And dance? My ongoing pipe dream: bring back the OSP!?

 

[Evgeniafan]

Thank you, @Sylvia for this topic.

I think the SP should emphasize technique and allow skaters with good technique to succeed. The FS should be, well, free

To accomplish this, how about the following:

Short Program
-For the 4 jumps in the SP, 2 must be edge jumps (axel + another edge jump) and 2 must be toe-assisted jumps
-No cap on difficulty for solo jump and axel jump
-Combo spin: minimum 2 positions per foot, no position counted after 2nd change of foot; not leveled, just judged on GOE
-Step sequence replaced with a specific patterned step sequence + 2 optional turns on each foot (before or after pattern);
*level assessed based on 1) depth of edges, 2) ice coverage, 3) difficulty of optional turns, and 4) difficulty of how optional turns are arranged relative to pattern and/or other optional turns;
*turns in each direction on each foot mandatory for Level 3 and Level 4

Free Skate
-Replace step sequence with a 2nd choreo sequence; figure out how to require that the two choreo sequences be substantially different; repeating SP patterned step sequence won't count
-10% bonus applied to last jumping pass and two highest value jumping passes (not including last jumping pass) after 2 minutes

Scale of values
-Lutz redefined as requiring skater to sustain the back outside edge for specific time or distance prior to takeoff
-Basic layback spin position and all layback variations are treated as difficult variations of an upright spin; layback spin is no longer a it's own category of spin
-2 position combo spins get their own value

Not just Lutz , required inside edge for Flip. There should not be a Lutz and Flip in the short program, unless true edge, no lippers or flutzers.

 

[farahfan]

I want the spiral sequence back for the Ladies' SP.
And side-by-side spins for Pairs in both programs.

Yes and yes.
Why can so few pairs do the SBS spins well? Is it just too low of value so they don't spend time on improving it?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I want the spiral sequence back for the Ladies' SP.
And side-by-side spins for Pairs in both programs.

Yussssssssss