WEAVER AND POJE: The Future is Golden

[JasperBoy]

Good to see this thread revived. I hope this is the year they win it all

 

[BlueRidge]

Last year they seemed to lose momentum after the GPF, I don't really know why but I'd guess they've learned from that. But as yet we don't know what we are going to see from Papadakis & Cizeron so we'll have to see that.

In any case, I love their short dance in particular. It just makes me so happy to watch that.

 

[yurokis40]

They should have won last year even with the french present, the fix was in to deny them the title last year.

 

[BlueRidge]

Has anyone seen an interview with Kaitlyn & Andrew where they talk about their Free Dance? I was wondering if they've talked about what it means for them and what they feel they are portraying with it. I really like the dance and would love to hear what they say about it.

 

[angelflies]

They should have won last year even with the french present, the fix was in to deny them the title last year.

At the very least they should have easily won the silver. Losing to Chock & Bates who had a stumble and are a much weaker team to begin with, was a disgrace. Shameful for the sport.

 

[BlueRidge]

Dinah Washington ain't kidding when she sings "This bitter earth" when there's so many sour people around.

 

[Debrah]

Last season they went into worlds feeling insecure despite their win at GPF, because the writing was on the wall politically for C&B and P&C to make big move's up the rankings. W&P skated cautious trying not to lose, when they should have gone in looking confident and skated full out going for the win. Lesson learned. Since that time they have regrouped brilliantly, they made the necessary changes and this season have come out dancing to win and improving each time out! They look like winners, great costuming, wonderful programs a beautiful couple, a man and a woman with lots of chemistry and elegance, emotional rapport, and they have new found fire in their eyes and are brimming with confidence this season. Tick, tick, tick, tick tick hopefully they can now dance to victory in Boston, but they will have to be clean and just go for broke, and damn the torpedoes! They can't give the judge's any excuse to dock them since there is not going to be a CDN judge on the panel. This should be their year, I mean how much bad luck can 1 team endure? They are a blended team - USA + Canada, with a Russian coach, Italian choreographer, I ask you, what could be more politically correct than that?

 

[aftershocks]

They should have won last year even with the french present, the fix was in to deny them the title last year.

I think W/P had the potential to win last year, but P/C's FD was just too compelling and beautifully skated. The momentum with P/C's FD steadily built all season long and they were always so on emotionally with it during every performance. The stunning success of P/C's FD could not be denied, and even their competitors were in awe frankly. Still, there was certainly no guarantee P/C would win gold. But it was exciting and satisfying when they did. Also in a way quite uplifting and inspirational for the ice dance discipline.

Every team went back to the drawing board to hopefully up their game. And it shows with W/P's hard work and choices for this season. I admire W/P's fight and clear ability to improve some of their weaknesses. W/P were also very quick to dump their original SD this season and to perfect a different approach that the judges were more apt to reward. I kinda liked their Elvis SD, but it was rough around the edges. What they have now is working very well for them. I wouldn't mind seeing the Elvis number in exhibition.

W/P seem on target to win Worlds this season, albeit in a very tight field with a lot of politics once again more visibly at the fore in ice dance. But W/P seem to be pulling away. Of course, we haven't seen P/C yet this season. It remains to be seen how strong and competitive P/C can be with the loss of training time. IMO, W/P deserved at least silver at Worlds last season, and arguably should have won Worlds in 2014, so maybe they will prevail in Boston 2016.

Has anyone seen an interview with Kaitlyn & Andrew where they talk about their Free Dance? I was wondering if they've talked about what it means for them and what they feel they are portraying with it. I really like the dance and would love to hear what they say about it.

http://www.openkwongdore.com/2015/09/07/episode-142-kaitlyn-weaver-andrew-poje/
W/P discuss their new programs for the season, i.e., their current FD, and their initial SD.

 

[BlueRidge]

Thanks, aftershocks!

 

[aftershocks]

No problem @BlueRidge. I enjoyed listening to this interesting interview a couple of months ago.

 

[WanderlustTO]

I would have given the gold to W&P at the worlds last year...but also can appreciate why P&C won. However, W&P should should have finished no worse than second.

In any event, what's done is done. Hopefully they will win this year.

 

[yurokis40]

I just hope they don't get robbed again this year how is it possible that for the 2nd straight year Canada will not have a judge at worlds, anyway I hope they skate their hearts out and win.

 

[puglover]

I saw their free dance live at Skate Canada and felt it was very special. It struck me as a program that is better live where you get carried away by the mood and also one that has to be skated perfectly to keep the spell.
On the Sunday evening following the gala a few women I had met before at previous competitions invited me to accompany them to a downtown bistro kind of restaurant in Lethbridge - definitely a change from the rink food and chain restaurants around the rink. We had just ordered our food - kind of intimate restaurant fairly busy but not full - when suddenly the people at the tables around us stood up and started clapping. Kaitlyn and Andrew had arrived with a group of people and were escorted to a table near the back. They seemed to be with family or close friends and nobody looked familiar, except for Kaitlyn's mom. Kaitlyn and Andrew were dressed casually but honestly they looked like movie stars. They seemed surprised and humbled by the standing ovation they got in this little restaurant away from the arena. There was little doubt that we were all fans, especially a group at a table near us, and a discussion took place at our table as to whether we should approach them and congratulate them or not. The final decision was to leave them alone and let them enjoy their victory with their family and friends.

 

[Alilou]

New article by Beverley Smith about W&P's process in creating their FD with Peter Tchernyshev.

https://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2016/01/12/weaver-and-poje-and-their-tchernyshev-adventure/

Weaver and Poje had seen Kavaguti and Smirnov’s routine last year to the “Manfred Symphony.” And they loved it. They were huge fans. “I saw that program for the first time in Obertsdorf,” Weaver said. “And we have seen it almost every single competition. Save Europeans. I watched it and it was stunning. I had no idea what the story was but that’s what I mean. They were so emotional in it. And it had such power and it captivated people. And for a pair program – that’s rare. And when I found out that it was Peter that did it, I thought: ‘Oh, of course. He’s brilliant. He’s a dancer.’ And they performed it amazingly.”

Take for example, their circular steps in the free dance, which is 47 seconds long. And Tchernyshev said: “Why can’t you use the whole ice? Why can’t you be in this footwork so that people forget it is a footwork sequence?”

“Well, no one does that,” the Canadian team said.

“So?” Tchernyshev said.

 

[kwanoverrated]

I really hope Weaver & Poje can take it this year, largely since Papadakis & Cizeron are so strong and talented I am not sure they will have another shot after this year.

 

[NorthernDancers]

I really hope Weaver & Poje can take it this year, largely since Papadakis & Cizeron are so strong and talented I am not sure they will have another shot after this year.

Ok. I'll take the bait. Weaver/Poje are the class of the field, and continue to up their skills and performance every year. While Papadikis/Cizeron are talented, they are not ahead of Weaver/Poje at this point in time, and likely won't be for awhile. P/C need some time to develop complexity and maturity in choreography and movement. They have a lovely lyrical style, and while it is nice to watch, it needs more difficulty and punch to be at the same level as some other teams. Of course when one adds difficulty, often speed and performance will suffer a little, so they need time to put it all together with more content. I'm not sure why fans expect them to have all of that together all of a sudden. They had a breakout season, but they are young and need time to grow. Their FD was very lovely last year, but it's debatable whether or not it really deserved to be top of the field. W/P did not skate quite as strongly at worlds, and that hurt them, but W/P had a very well put together classical program with an edge and lots of speed and difficulty. It wasn't as dramatic as the previous season, so it felt like a let down for some. But it showed range, growth, and some real artistry. It was a worlds worthy program. Arguably P/C were overscored in the SD, which allowed them to win based on their FD. I think there are a couple of reasons why judges got so carried away with P/C. They have really good performance skills, and they had a very different kind of program. They stood out. This year, they do not stand out in a large number of lyrical, schmaltzy programs. It's too much the same, and not as good. I also think that judges have been looking for the next V/M and D/W, but those teams are really irreplaceable right now and on an entirely different level of skating, and the marks last year for all skaters were over-eager and overdone when compared to the scores that both V/M and D/W regularly posted. The hype is so big, that it's going to be really hard for P/C to live up to it. Just ask Shibs what that's like. Let's recognize the talent and potential, but let's give them room to develop. And let's not undermine or under-rate the outstanding skating that W/P are producing on a regular basis, even if the program or music may not always be "your cup of tea". Their SD this year is sublime. It is the very definition of Ravensburger, and master-class worthy. Their FD is exceptionally strong - complex, interesting, well choreographed, quality, speed, beautiful lines and edges, and gets better and better with each outing. If anything W/P are the most wuz robbed team in skating. They should have already had a world title at least once, and last year should have been at least a silver, as the most recent examples. They are one of the hardest working, most trained, most improved, great attitudes and super nice people you will find in the sport of skating. I have faith that judges will eventually wake up to the quality of W/P skating at worlds, and give them the marks and world title they deserve, and hopefully more than 1, and an Olympic medal as well.

 

[rustyskater]

I think they deserved to win the GPF this year. I think it was clear they skated the best FD; the ending spin is pretty innovative, risky and done well. I'll be at Worlds in Boston in March to see the FDs of all the top teams - I can't wait. With the Shibs gaining momentum and the Italians skating better, it's a tight race this year.

 

[yurokis40]

I think their FD has very high score potential even with a couple of mistakes at the gp final they almost scored 110, I think they are very close to getting a level 4 for one of their step sequences, I think the circular step sequence should already.

 

[allezfred]

While Papadikis/Cizeron are talented, they are not ahead of Weaver/Poje at this point in time, and likely won't be for awhile. P/C need some time to develop complexity and maturity in choreography and movement. They have a lovely lyrical style, and while it is nice to watch, it needs more difficulty and punch to be at the same level as some other teams.

Papadakis/Cizeron are the friggin World Champions. Of course, they are ahead of Weaver/Poje at this time.

To say that they need time to develop complexity and maturity in choreography and movement is interesting also.

 

[juliajk]

Papadakis/Cizeron are the friggin World Champions. Of course, they are ahead of Weaver/Poje at this time.

To say that they need time to develop complexity and maturity in choreography and movement is interesting also.

The fact that PC are the world Champions doesn't mean they ahead of WP, they won exactly ONE competition over them, and even that was a questionable win. WP are still ranked as number one Ice Dance team in the world, and there are reasons for that. PC are talented, but yes they laking maturity and complexity, and still have tons of room for development. Lets be honest, if PC would be asked to performe a dance with the level of dificulty WP are doing, they'd probably won't be able to execute it. The fact that PC consistently screwin up the pattern on short dance for several seasons now doesn't help them to much eather.

 

[PashaFan]

The fact that PC are the world Champions doesn't mean they ahead of WP, they won exactly ONE competition over them, and even that was a questionable win. WP are still ranked as number one Ice Dance team in the world, and there are reasons for that. PC are talented, but yes they laking maturity and complexity, and still have tons of room for development. Lets be honest, if PC would be asked to performe a dance with the level of dificulty WP are doing, they'd probably won't be able to execute it. The fact that PC consistently screwin up the pattern on short dance for several seasons now doesn't help them to much eather.

They only met in two competitions last season & they were beaten by both P/C & C/B at the Worlds.
I thought W/P were good for the silver especially as C/B had a big error & a fairly bland FD,
The main worry for W/P is not this season but the next two.
P/C have only been around a couple of seasons & are already World Champions. W/P have been around since 06/07 & have not yet won the Worlds.
This season is their big chance with P/C playing catch up.
I think W/P & P/C are fairly level to be fair.
It's the pushing for C/B to always be on the podium which I think is wrong.

 

[juliajk]

They only met in two competitions last season & they were beaten by both P/C & C/B at the Worlds.
I thought W/P were good for the silver especially as C/B had a big error & a fairly bland FD,
The main worry for W/P is not this season but the next two.
P/C have only been around a couple of seasons & are already World Champions. W/P have been around since 06/07 & have not yet won the Worlds.
This season is their big chance with P/C playing catch up.
I think W/P & P/C are fairly level to be fair.
It's the pushing for C/B to always be on the podium which I think is wrong.

WP and PC met tree times, including WTT, and won two out of tree, and i'm still questioning the result of the world's. PC are great team, but they are not ahead of the other top teams yet, and they still need to grow and mature in their skaiting.
As far as WP goes, I'm glad that they continue to improve every single season, and i'm quite confident that they will be able to medal at next season's worlds and the Olympics.

 

[allezfred]

There are none so blind as those who will not see......

 

[juliajk]

Is there a reason why we discussing PC here?
PC fans have their own thread where they're trashing all the other teams, they should stay there. I hope that this thread will stay clean from that kind of negativity

 

[allezfred]

Is there a reason why we discussing PC here?
PC fans have their own thread where they're trashing all the other teams, I hope that this thread will stay clean from that.

As opposed to this thread where you are trashing Papadakis/Cizeron.

You will note I have not said a bad word about Weaver/Poje. They are after all World bronze medallists. It's just that in the only competition that mattered last season Papadakis/Cizeron finished ahead of them by a significant margin.

 

[Debrah]

Allezfred: Not good enough argument IMO, because by your logical reasoning: then the Italians - C/L, should be ahead of them all, as they were also WC, but they did so first, this OLYMPIC cycle! This demonstrates that just cause you won the championship title once, or even like the Shibutani's bronze medaling way back in the day, a world medal does not automatically put you ahead of everyone for rest of the cycle, esp., under COP now does it? Being held up forever and the wait your turn ranking that happened back in the bad old days, when Russian dancer's always won even when they fell, is not as blatant or obvious as it once was. COP levels the playing field somewhat, at least making technical scores and difficult elements/levels just as important as strong PCS and being from a strong federation. Then too, injuries happen, sometimes life, or pressure of new expectations gets in team's way, or weak,unpopular programs etc., thus things often change over time with others catching up, exceeding expectations or a team being able to capitalize on other's miscues, etc., and esp important, the changing politics of skating...Just saying that perhaps the sun will finally shine for W/P in Boston. W/P have lived under a black cloud of misfortune, for more years than I can count, just crossing my fingers they can hang tough and confidently deliver their best at world's, and for once be properly rewarded for their efforts!

 

[juliajk]

Whe

As opposed to this thread where you are trashing Papadakis/Cizeron.

You will note I have not said a bad word about Weaver/Poje. They are after all World bronze medallists. It's just that in the only competition that mattered last season Papadakis/Cizeron finished ahead of them by a significant margin.

Where exactly am I trashing anyone?
The worlds its not the only competition that matters, the whole season mattress! WP are the number one ranked team in the standings, the best Ice dancers in the field right now, live with it.

 

[glitterbabydoll]

Wow, I really hope that W/P wins at Worlds just so the discussion can change. It's starting to sound bitter.

 

[yurokis40]

We're not bitter we don't want double standard judging, there is nothing special or innovative in P&C program this year,more lovey dovey lyrical stuff, Weaver and Poje tried something completely different the year after Je suis Malade it may not have been entirely successful but at least they tried and took a risk.

 

[thvu]

We're not bitter we don't want double standard judging, there is nothing special or innovative in P&C program this year,more lovey dovey lyrical stuff, Weaver and Poje tried something completely different the year after Je suis Malade it may not have been entirely successful but at least they tried and took a risk.

If you think P&C's FD last season was "lovey dovey," it's hard to see what you're saying as anything but emotional bias, because really, that's quite a stretch. (And I say this as someone who appreciates what W&P do.)