Weaver and Poje step away from competition

[starrynight]

Yes I hope Weaver/Poje do shows. They are great show skaters and they always make an effort to put on new interesting show programs with new costumes that have been well rehearsed.

 

[barbarafan]

Oh, is that how it works?

Skate Canada decides what it wants and makes rules to fit it. They have been undermarked nationally for years.

 

[starrynight]

I also think the fact that their coach Morozov is all over the world at the moment and may be spending a lot mor e time in Russia with Stolbova and new partner might have been a factor too.

I also imagine WP being systematically targeted by online trolls this last season has taken the fun out of things a lot too. Very regrettable that people think they can act like that online. The sheer level of mindless meanness has been quite something and it must be disappointing for K&A to see, particularly as its coming from their own country. It’s also embarrassing to see figure skating fans acting like that. It reflects really badly on the sport.

 

[Japanfan]

They're a great team that didn't reach their full potential but they've given the fans plenty to cheer for over the years. I'll be happy to see more whether they're competing or just doing shows.

I think they reached their full potential. They've had some memorable and wonderful programs. And I thought they always skated 100% with heart - which can't have been easy all those years when they knew they would come second to V/M.

But with now potentially both Virtue/Moir and Weaver/Poje gone, it's a new era for Canadian ice dance. There's a lot to be said for the security blanket of having top teams that always place well at Worlds. Those three spots aren't actually automatically given to Canada (even though it probably feels like it, as they have had them for so long).

L&L are coming up, and at the present time look poised for an ascension in the senior ranks that resembles that of V/M. I saw them at a JGP and they were totally the class of the field - 20 points above the team that placed second.

Until then, the Danadians might be the dominant team.

 

[screech]

I think it's likely that either they will join V/M's tour or perhaps Battle Of The Blades (I don't think they announced every participant yet) and to be honest I understand their decision.

I didn't even think of BotB! That'd be awesome!

 

[Tavi]

I’m so glad I got to see them live last year - love them!

 

[kwanfan1818]

Oh, is that how it works?

You don't think Skate Canada has done the math and has a preferred scenario, particularly when Weaver/Poje haven't been committed to the full Olympic cycle and seemed to indicate that Montreal would be their competitive swan song?

 

[The Observer]

From a Skate Canada perspective, SC may prefer, even if they don't have influence, for the road be clear for G/P to get the Canada #1 push with two Worlds before the Olympics, even if that means two spots for the following season, rather than going down to two spots for the Olympics. It's going to be difficult for FB/S to move up, especially with Z/G back in the mix, and Canada #3, probably L/L, could use the earliest exposure at senior championships.

Hopefully Skate Canada will be smarter in how they schedule the GP assignments for Gilles & Poirier this coming season. Last season G&P ended up with tough GP assignments and ended up missing out on the GP Final. Meanwhile, 2 dance teams who rank below them in the World standings (Hawayek & Baker and Guignard & Fabbri) had easier GP assignments and qualified for the Final.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Hopefully Skate Canada will be smarter in how they schedule the GP assignments for Gilles & Poirier this coming season. Last season G&P ended up with tough GP assignments and ended up missing out on the GP Final. Meanwhile, 2 dance teams who rank below them in the World standings (Hawayek & Baker and Guignard & Fabbri) had easier GP assignments and qualified for the Final.

Skate Canada was not going to pass on G/P as a host pick with W/P taking off GP last season.

On paper, when the selections were made, G/P, S/B, Z/G, who were the second selection group, were pretty much equal, points-wise, scoring within ~6 points of each other, and G/F were just a few points behind them. On paper, P/C would not have withdrawn from NHK, which made it possible for H/B to win, and C/B would not have withdrawn from Finland, which made it more likely that G/F would win silver. On paper, Z/G would not have had limited training time and might not have lost to G/F.

H/B scored ~20 higher at NHK than they had at prior Worlds. Even at their weaker event, IdF, in which G/P beat them, they were ~14 points higher than in Milan. G/F also capitalized on the new +5 GOE scale, jumping from ~179 in Milan to 192 and 196 at SA and FIN. G/P's GP scores were just a few points more than in Milan; if they gained anything through +GOE, it was to compensate for lost points. G/P underachieved at both of their events, which is why they missed GPF.

Since NHK and IdF had two, not one, of the group 3 skaters, that suggests that the Japanese Fed and the French Fed had the first two picks for Dance selections, and they select in the order set by a draw. France chose Sinitsina/Katsalapov, who were guaranteed one from the SB list, but Skate Canada had no obligation to give them a second. If Skate Canada made a costly mistake, it was in choosing S/K for a second event, Skate Canada.

WeaPo avoided the whole mess by skating on the Thank You Canada Tour, and good for them.

 

[starrynight]

It’s two totally different things to try to compare the excitement of ‘what might happen in the future’ with a team just starting out as a top contender, as compared to a team that has seen through 14 straight years of senior competition together. It’s speculation vs things that have already happened.

 

[The Observer]

France chose Sinitsina/Katsalapov, who were guaranteed one from the SB list, but Skate Canada had no obligation to give them a second. If Skate Canada made a costly mistake, it was in choosing S/K for a second event, Skate Canada.

Yes, that's the mistake Skate Canada made, although perhaps they didn't realize the judges were going to inflate the marks for S/K as much as they did.

Although G/P had a big error in the RD at Skate Canada, and then the big comeback in the FD, looking at the marks it appears that even if G/P had skated a clean RD, they still may have only won the bronze behind S/K. Not winning the silver at Skate Canada was one of the things that closed the door to their chances of going to the GPF.

 

[Marta24]

I`m going to miss them. One of the first ice dance teams I was emotionally invested in.

 

[paskatefan]

Sorry to hear this. So glad we got to see them compete @ 2016 Worlds. Hope they get to do lots of shows!

 

[Lanie]

What a bummer. They always had such creative, enjoyable programs.

 

[Dobre]

You don't think Skate Canada has done the math and has a preferred scenario

I think sometimes math doesn't get you there.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think sometimes math doesn't get you there.

If predictions were perfect, they could just model it and skip the skating. That they can't doesn't make them any less responsible for making decisions for the future based on what they know (or think they know) now.

I'm pretty sure they prefer a stronger hand to a weaker one, some of which they control or influence, and some of which they can only hope for.

 

[starrynight]

Is this some kind of conspiracy theory whereby it's thought that Skate Canada (currently dealing with a thinned out national team, with all its big names gone) pushed two of its most popular, successful and recognisable skaters to retire right before a home Worlds?

I don't buy that at all. That seems fictitious to me. And makes zero sense.

For starters, it would only take one injury to cause a plan like that to backfire spectacularly.

 

[Dobre]

My guess is that Skate Canada would like their highest ranked Canadian finishers from the 2019 Worlds to compete in Montreal.

And that Weaver & Poje are both adults and fully capable of deciding what they want to do at this point in their career.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Is this some kind of conspiracy theory whereby it's thought that Skate Canada (currently dealing with a thinned out national team, with all its big names gone) pushed two of its most popular, successful and recognisable skaters to retire right before a home Worlds?

I don't buy that at all. That seems fictitious to me. And makes zero sense.

For starters, it would only take one injury to cause a plan like that to backfire spectacularly.

That's because it's your fiction, not mine.

I already outlined very clearly how G/P weren't in harder fields to start with except for Skate Canada choosing S/K to compete against them at SC, but withdrawals by the top seeds and injury impacting their peers (Z/G) buoyed their direct competition's GPF chances.

I think that Skate Canada might prefer a situation where, if they are going to go down to two spots, they have a season before the Olympics to try to get one back, rather than 2021 leaving two Olympic spots. Not that they'd engineer it to be so.

 

[Colleen]

I've always enjoyed their skating - and realized in 2018 just how emotionally invested I was - I too was in the crowd giving them ovations. I respect their decision - hope to see them at Rock the Rink in October! But will miss them at Skate Canada.

 

[aml78]

Kaitlyn just posted on Instagram. Kind of sounds like it’s Andrew who wants to step away...

 

[Sylvia]

Kaitlyn just posted on Instagram.

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[marbri]

Kaitlyn just posted on Instagram. Kind of sounds like it’s Andrew who wants to step away...

Not surprised. He is 32 years old and reading between her lines it seems he may have lost his motivation/desire to continue the grind of training for competition and pulled the plug before the GP assignments were official. Probably didn't help that their time seems to have passed them by and I don't see any rebound with the coaching staff they had. Seems a similar situation as to when Jeff Buttle pulled the plug, each the season before a big home ISU event. You really have to have that burning desire to be able to put in the hours required. No shame, he has been at it a long time.

Kaitlyn seems at peace with it as well, a beautiful message.

 

[starrynight]

Beautiful message from Kaitlyn. It must be so difficult when your partner needs to step away when maybe you are not ready to do so yourself. It certainly must have been a difficult thing for Andrew to tell her. I get that Kaitlyn is cut from the same cloth as an Aljona Savchenko and would skate forever if her partners could keep up.

It certainly seems like this is the full and permanent retirement.

(Also it'd be nice given the significance of this moment for them if this thread isn't about G/Ps previous grand prix assignments, no matter how excited some might be by the opportunities this retirement presents for others). There's enough gleeful chanting about that over on social media.

 

[Zazy]

Why would Kaitlyn make it clear that Andrew wanted to stop and she wanted to continue? Why do the fans need to know that? It comes across as a passive-agressive message to Andrew and I'm left with a weird feeling reading her post.

In any case, I will miss seeing them at worlds. I would have liked to see what they could do with a different coach but if this is the end, they've had a great career.

 

[starrynight]

As a fan I appreciate getting some insight into the situation. Better than some fake plastic statement that we all know is fake.

I was actually under the impression that they were going for Beijing but now I realise those were Kaitlyn’s comments, not Andrew’s.

That’s the thing about partnerships. It takes two. Weaver/Poje have pulled out a massive effort competing as long as they have. But like Aljona if Kaitlyn could do solo dance (like if Aljona could do solo pairs) she’d probably compete forever. She wants that Olympic medal I think (much like Aljona’s pursuit of the gold).

It must be very hard to deal with when you have desires to keep skating forever but your partner can’t.

I also think Andrew might have much more of a balanced view of where skating through to 2022 would leave them and he wants to move on. He’s been posting on social media that he’s started studying again, so he’s probably putting plans in place for a transition.

And with Morozov basically in Russia with Stolbova, I expect that Kaitlyn and Andrew would have to move to Detroit to train with Igor and Pasquale if they wanted decent coaching and maybe that move just seemed too hard at this point.

 

[Dobre]

Why would Kaitlyn make it clear that Andrew wanted to stop and she wanted to continue?

I can't read the instagram message, but generally speaking think it's OK for skaters to be honest about why & how they stop. That maybe as people they need to be able to do that in order to move on themselves. It's a difficult decision that teams have to deal with. Charlie was quite honest that it was Meryl's decision. We all know Bobrova was the one that was the most ready to move on in Bobrova & Soloviev's partnership. We know Trankov was ready to be done before Volosozhar. We know Vanessa was considering getting out this past season. It's OK to be honest about that. This is a team sport. You don't do it on your own. Both halves have to be 100% all in. It's OK for younger athletes to look at their role models and see that this is part of the reality, the relationship, and the process.

 

[starrynight]

I also think that because Kaitlyn and Andrew have a strong friendship that Andrew has been pushing himself to compete as long as he can to keep Kaitlyn happy. And there’s only so long you can manage that for.

There’s so many examples of dancers and pairs where one half has wanted to continue and the other hasn’t.

 

[Catherine M]

He’s been posting on social media that he’s started studying again, so he’s probably putting plans in place for a transition.

I remember hearing a long time ago that Andrew wanted to go to Dental school so maybe he's starting the process for the next phase of his life. It will take a lot of time and commitment to make it; hopefully what Joannie Rochette has accomplished with her medical career inspires him.

Best of luck to both Kaitlyn and Andrew.

 

[Zazy]

I can't read the instagram message, but generally speaking think it's OK for skaters to be honest about why & how they stop.

This is the message:
https://www.instagram.com/p/By8idiTlBMS/

Thank you. Thank you for everything that you have been and who you are to me. You have made a little girl’s dreams come true and you have given me wings. You have been my footsteps when I couldn’t stand, wiped away my tears and helped create the most beautiful, truly unbelievable memories. Thank you for supporting and sharing all of my crazy ideas for thirteen years, and for your honesty when maybe that started to change.. as hard as it was.
I don’t know where the future will take us, but I know you know that I respect you during this time. Know that I’m always by your side. Even though our nature is to strive for more, I am beyond grateful and proud of what we’ve been able to achieve so far. We’ve made it through some serious sh*t . Together we’ve overcome adversity with grace that in my opinion, is the most important accomplishment of all. I’ve always said that I wanted to be remembered for heart and spirit more than medals, and I hope that you can say we did that. I tried my best.
You know me... I will still be dreaming of this season’s perfect program But in the meantime, I’m looking to the future with stars in my eyes. Thank you for being my partner, moya Andrusha. What a ride.
And to the #weapofamily, I am eternally grateful for your love and care. Thank you for believing in us, for it has made all the difference. ❤

There's some beautiful passages in there but the general vibe of it is really weird to me - maybe it's just me. It's very different from mentioning in an interview that one of the partners made the call, and reads more like the kind of message you see when one partner is retiring and the other isn't. Except I doubt that's happening here? I don't know, I'm confused. I don't understand what Kaitlyn was trying to achieve with this post. She obviously doesn't need Instagram to communicate with Andrew and it's a strange way of communicating with the fans, especially when they are supposedly still reflecting on their future and aren't officially retired.

Anyway, moving on... I was surprised WP continued after the Olympics. At their ages it's almost to be expected that one or both would want to retire. But no doubt it's a difficult decision, especially if the team isn't on the same page. I wish them all the best.