Vanessa James | Morgan Cipres

[Sylvia]

Article by Hiro Yoshida published before Euros: https://europeonice.com/2018/01/15/james-and-cipres-cest-something/

“Like he said, it’s the same competitors, the same programmes,” James said. “Yes, it’s the day that everyone has been dreaming of, but I think that is what makes it such a stressful situation. What we are going to try and do with this experience is take it as any other competition that we’ve done like at a Grand Prix. At Europeans, we want to medal. They are all very important competitions for us and we’ll just have to do our best and take it as any other day. I think that will be the best strategy for us.

ETA their WINNING SP (British Eurosport): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6fYS1nZQts

 

[cocotaffy]

I'm liking the TES on the tracker. Them moving into the lead might be the only positive about S/M's absence.

ETA: ah, how on earth did I manage to send this comment in this thread, this was meant for the pbp thread. Anyhow, I'm so happy for them but please, keep your cool.

 

[Miloune]

I'm so happy for them! Hard work and consistence pay off!

 

[kittysk8ts]

I'm so happy for them! Hard work and consistence pay off!

I have total respect for what they have accomplished these last few seasons. Could be one of the best coaching changes in the history of this sport!

 

[cocotaffy]

John Zimmerman must be a jedi, probably the reincarnation of Yoda to have been able to boost their confidence like he had. I don't want to jinx them though. Can't wait for tomorrow.

 

[Isabelle.G]

I happened to see the pairs long program tonight and I feel so sorry for them. They couldn't avoid making mistakes tonight, but they definitely deserved a medal, in my opinion. The score is just ridiculous. I hope they'll look at it from the bright side (being first after the sp) and will be motivated to show their absolute best at the Olympics.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Aw, frig So very close.....

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I watched that score come in live.... 1/100th of a point? oh man.............

 

[GreenGan]

They had a very rough skate, lots of mistake. They come back from injury, they looked really tired... But wow. Very rough. Morgan seemed mad. They could've done it. And Vanessa kinda blew it, except for the thr4s.
I think they at least deserved 3rd but they do need to work on their 3twist. ASAP.

 

[cocotaffy]

Gutted for them, but it was a rough skate. Not one element was entirely clean. Hopefully they come back strong for the Olympics.

 

[barbarafan]

I watched that score come in live.... 1/100th of a point? oh man.............

judges using their calculators again

 

[Sylvia]

Hope for James, Cipres after missing medal by .01 of a point (by James Ellingworth for the Associated Press in Moscow)
Excerpt:

Against three strong Russian pairs in front of a Russian crowd, James said she and Cipres needed to avoid mistakes to negate any possible home advantage for the Russians in scoring.
"That's how it works, so we needed to make sure there was no space for that extra push, but we didn't do that," she said.
Still, less than a month out from the Olympics, top-scoring in the short program on Wednesday helped their confidence.
"Today wasn't the day, but we learn from our mistakes and this will give us a nice boost for Olympics," she said.
As proof of their potential, James pointed to Wednesday's short and to Skate Canada in October, when she and Cipres beat world silver medalists Aliona Savchenko and Bruno Massot of Germany in the free skate.
"We've beaten the Russians in the short, we've beaten the Germans in the long. We've beaten everyone a little bit, differently, at different times," James said. "Now we just have to get it all together at one point, and I'm hoping that will be at the Olympics."

 

[Bigbird]

Hope for James, Cipres after missing medal by .01 of a point (by James Ellingworth for the Associated Press in Moscow)
Excerpt:

But not even one clean element? Something is wrong with their mental preparedness. The pressure will only get higher at the OGs, right?

 

[Spun Silver]

But not even one clean element? Something is wrong with their mental preparedness. The pressure will only get higher at the OGs, right?

What would you say if they had scored 2/100ths of a point higher? And how do you know it's mental and not physical? One issue they have is Vanessa being older. She is not like a Tutberidze girl who can do 25 runthroughs a day.

 

[topaz]

But not even one clean element? Something is wrong with their mental preparedness. The pressure will only get higher at the OGs, right?

Not necessarily. They have nothing to lose. Something seemed off to me about Morgan in the lifts especially. It could have been the skating order; Vanessa did miss French nationals with an injury. So they lose some ice time.

I think they'll be able to put this behind them.

ETA: They should have won silver medal here. Both T/M and S/K were overscored in both TES and PCS.

 

[kittysk8ts]

But not even one clean element? Something is wrong with their mental preparedness. The pressure will only get higher at the OGs, right?

But this was truly the most pressure they had ever experienced, I believe. First place after the short at a competition that they respect immensely. They had issues, yes, but they really didn't completely fall apart. Maybe there will be some things they can pinpoint NOT to do next time. I like what I read in @Sylvia 's post above and I think that they have the right attitude and will move forward. It's the only option.

 

[Bigbird]

But this was truly the most pressure they had ever experienced, I believe. First place after the short at a competition that they respect immensely. They had issues, yes, but they really didn't completely fall apart. Maybe there will be some things they can pinpoint NOT to do next time. I like what I read in @Sylvia 's post above and I think that they have the right attitude and will move forward. It's the only option.

Half of my annoyance is that we knew the judges would use any and every mistake of the French, to bury them. I still find it hard to believe how such a bland performance by T/M earned more than 140 points. Aljona must be laughing her head off. She was never going to come to Moscow to be humiliated. Overall this competition was rather underwhelming.

 

[briancoogaert]

Very hard judging IMO. They made small mistakes, yes, but they were clean enough for a medal.

 

[3T3T]

I think the pressure of leading after the short got to them. They both seemed off, he was very shaky in the lifts. Everything was scrappy and untidy, just a bit messy. Maybe stepping on the ice they felt at a minimum they would get 2nd, as the scores S/K and Z/E had left were very beatable.

He looked very dejected in the K&C, while she was chatting away to John and sounded quite positive. I always am unsure of their dynamic, I feel like they can revert back their old behavior very easily. I think when things go badly, as in yesterday’s free, he gets a bit moody and sulky.

I watched the BESP highlights (all two couples, T/M and J/C) the guys there felt the judges did everything they could to keep them on the podium, that the GoE was very generous.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I watched the BESP highlights (all two couples, T/M and J/C) the guys there felt the judges did everything they could to keep them on the podium, that the GoE was very generous.

Yes, BESP, during the actual performance, commented that they received some generous +GOEs. Chris (?) even said he didn't think Vanessa and Morgan would mind him saying so. Interesting. I would also note that some of those +GOEs dropped by the time the final score was tallied.

 

[DreamSkates]

I happened to see the pairs long program tonight and I feel so sorry for them. They couldn't avoid making mistakes tonight, but they definitely deserved a medal, in my opinion. The score is just ridiculous. I hope they'll look at it from the bright side (being first after the sp) and will be motivated to show their absolute best at the Olympics.

Oh yes, 1/10 point difference. Must have been so disappointing. But they will come out strong at the Olympics!

 

[DreamSkates]

Very hard judging IMO. They made small mistakes, yes, but they were clean enough for a medal.

Russian skaters held up to sweep the podium in Moscow. But, had they skated cleanly, that would have more than made up for the .10 difference between 3rd and 4th.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Hey, just remember Vanessa was hurt recently, they haven't had as much time to train. Kudos for that beauty of a quad though!

 

[aftershocks]

Russians were having none of James/Cipres winning in Russia, but yet it was okay for T/M with a horrid fp and messy errors to steal gold from J/C in France on the GP!!! James/Cipres' scores have been over-managed all season long to keep them behind other teams when they skated better than those teams.

Now, at Euros when J/C were not in top form due to losing training time because of Vanessa's injury, they have a less than stellar free skate but still did not make major errors and they get pushed off the podium by boring, over-rated Z/E?! The judges should be ashamed of themselves. Z/E did not skate lights out technically and they have no connection on the ice at all. S/K are really the class of the field, but they have not been in top form technically and they made errors in both programs. T/M are quite pitiful. They skated so cautiously in their horrid fp and were a mess in the sp, but were held up in the marks in both programs with huge overscores in the fp. Tarasova's touchdown with her free foot on both throws in the fp were ignored by the judges. J/C could see the writing on the wall, and I don't think they were being received very well by the audience for having landed in first place (deservedly) after the sp over the Russian teams.

For J/C to be completely knocked off the podium altogether by one point stinks to high heaven. I wish J/C would continue for another year because they have invigorated pairs with their fresh edgy programs, hot connection and engaging style. But I am simply tired of all the nitpicking they receive all the time. I'm not sure Vanessa will want to continue. She's always given it her all, but it becomes tiresome having to be perfect and then some against other teams who have higher margins for error. The sport is too political and the scoring too manipulative. It's okay to hold up other teams with major mistakes. But with J/C if they don't skate consistently well, even having minor miscues, they are dropped. And in this case, it's clearly political to completely kick them off the podium in favor of all three Russian teams.

I think the pressure of leading after the short got to them

That's your opinion and your excuse. Vanessa has been injured and they lost training time. Do you even know the pressure she's faced in the past and come through, time and again. She's battled long and hard. Stop trying to explain things away please.

I feel like they can revert back their old behavior very easily. I think when things go badly, as in yesterday’s free, he gets a bit moody and sulky.

I watched the BESP highlights (all two couples, T/M and J/C) the guys there felt the judges did everything they could to keep them on the podium, that the GoE was very generous.

Again Eurosport guys' opinion and your opinion. Continue trying to 'splain things away.

What you said in the bolded part is completely insulting, but yeah continue on. I'm sure Vanessa is used to such snide comments by now. Being dissed bothers Morgan more.

motivated to show their absolute best at the Olympics

I don't think being knocked off the podium here (at a less than stellar competition for all the top teams) is something James/Cipres need to be motivated. Their motivation comes from within, or at least it should.

Vanessa knows they have to skate clean to get any modicum of respect. The problem is they have no margin for error, while other teams do. It will be extremely difficult for J/C to make the podium at the Olympics, no matter how well they skate (they will be battling not only the judges and the Russians, but also the Chinese, Germans and Canadians). When J/C skated well on the GP, their scores were over-managed to keep them behind other skaters. They should have won silver at SC and gold in their home country and made the GPF. That they didn't is purely political. Being first in the sp at Euros is not a result that carries any weight. Missing the podium by such a small margin (when they definitely should have received a medal) is not only disappointing, it's also not their fault, especially not against boring, over-rated Z/E.

It's really enough to make me stop watching. I'm not even looking forward to the Olympics in any discipline. The sport of figure skating stinks, and so does the coverage. I'm tired of hearing all the excuses and 'splaining crap away.

I still celebrate Vanessa et Morgan. It would be nice if they return just to skate for themselves and enjoy one last season. But the sport itself does not deserve them and the exciting breath of fresh air that they have brought to pairs.
https://www.instagram.com/vanessa_james_sk8/?hl=en

 

[Mad for Skating]

@aftershocks I do get your point, but tbh I don't really think the universe is plotting against them. T/M's free program is cringe-worthy but they mathematically outscored J/C. S/K have the world's best speed, skating skills, and extension IMO and they deserve credit for that, just like Hanyu and Kostner. 74 for S/K's PCS compared to 71 for J/C is completely fair IMO. As for Z/E...yes, their FS is boring but the judges took that in account and J/C beat them on PCS by like 3 points.
Of course it sucks when your favorites are sooooo close to a medal and just miss it. But I don't think anyone maliciously added up the points to keep them off the podium.

 

[aftershocks]

I don't really think the universe is plotting against them...

Whatever way you happen to see it that's easy for you to swallow. But what's with your over-exaggeration? No one said "the universe is plotting against them."

I stand by the obvious fact that James/Cipres were ultimately more harshly judged and nitpicked in Moscow. No team skated perfect over both programs (except a case could be made for Marchei/Hotarek, even though they still skate like two singles skaters). Z/E were over-scored in the sp, and they've been consistently over-scored on PCS as a fairly new team that is still developing. It's suspect that 3 Russian teams managed to make the podium in Moscow with mistakes. And it's suspect that J/C were dropped completely off the podium by that slim margin after being in first; they were the top contending team who skated the cleanest in the sp. The judges were expecting to slot at least one or two Russian teams ahead of J/C in the sp, but couldn't. The very high scores T/M were given for skating their horrid fp with no major mistakes, but still not completely clean, was the writing on the wall that T/M were being moved into first place and let the other teams fall where they may. J/C was definitely not going to get gold by skating clean. And with any mistakes even minor ones, they'd be dropped, and they were. But being dropped off the podium is overly harsh.

J/C are always nitpicked and examined with a microscope in order to find reasons why they shouldn't place ahead of some teams. As I said, J/C have no margin for error, while other teams do. There's no excuse for T/M winning gold in France with that horrid fp and their numerous mistakes. James/Cipres skated two clean and accomplished performances in their home country, plus their programs are exceptionally good. Their team has helped them put together dynamic and interesting programs very well-suited to them for two seasons straight. Many teams have been picking up on some of J/C's moves and trying to emulate the connection they naturally have, and that they've always exhibited since they began skating together.

Whatever way you want to look at what happened in Moscow that makes you feel good is fine. There's lots of unfairness in figure skating, at every level and in every discipline. Fans and people in the skating community can make all the excuses they like to try and explain away this result.

I'm still happy for Vanessa and Morgan for how well they have performed all season, and for the way they built from strength-to-strength last season, with some triumphant performances. They have brought a lot of fresh excitement to pairs skating and I commend them even despite the continued carping and lack of respect shown to them in some quarters.

 

[aftershocks]

I'm going to continue to celebrate Vanessa et Morgan and their partnership. Thanks to all those in skating who believed in them from the beginning and who continue to believe in them and support them on their journey.

Defeat should never be a source of discouragement, but rather a fresh stimulus -- Bishop Robert South

Problems are only opportunities with thorns on them -- Hugh Miller

We may encounter many defeats, but we must not be defeated -- Maya Angelou

Winter is on my head, but eternal spring is in my heart -- Victor Hugo

One of the secrets of life is to make stepping stones out of stumbling blocks -- Jack Penn

Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things -- Robert Brault

Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness & growth occurs while you're climbing it -- Andy Rooney

http://ew.com/movies/2017/02/06/fifty-shades-grey-figure-skaters/
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/02/07/figure-skaters-fifty-shades-of-grey_n_14634630.html
https://www.popsugar.com/fitness/Couple-Figure-Skating-Routine-Sound-Silence-43471103

Vanessa's first skating competition performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O8XHUivQYI
Vanessa skating with her fraternal twin sister Melyssa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbV-N0gWQWg
Melyssa competed in ice dance at British Nationals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo77ID5qEHc
Local Tampa, Florida feature on J/C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOhJFqCAZPM
Skating montage with J/C and P/C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eXjKo2XayU

Vanessa & Morgan paired in fall of 2010 and began training together. They skated at TEB in the fall of 2011. Their raw talent, exciting energy and dynamic connection was apparent from the start. But they still had a tough road ahead in the highly political, physically challenging and competitively archaic world of figure skating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1wa5k0Ih68 Amazing and very promising performance from a team competing together for less than a year! Plus Morgan was a singles skater who had to learn pair elements
"They are stars of the future!" as observed by a Eurosport commentator -- Very true, but it's been a long hard battle. Vanessa & Morgan are the richer for all they've been through, no matter what happens going forward. Thanks for all you've given to fans who appreciate your skating, V&M!

One of my favorite J/C performances: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlktjmVSz9o

Vanessa and Morgan know Abitbol/Bernadis (former World bronze medalists from France), but do they also know about the historic French pair team Andree Joly Brunet and Pierre Brunet (three-time World champions and 1928 Olympic champions)? https://www.britannica.com/biography/Andree-Brunet-and-Pierre-Brunet "They invented new spins, created mirror skating, and added new jumps and lifts to the repertoire of pairs skating." The Brunets later taught and coached in New York, "encouraging talented pupils including Carol Heiss, Donald Jackson, and Dorothy Hamill."

 

[aftershocks]

This is a lovely montage with stills and live action of Vanessa et Morgan, to Game of Thrones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSpYfcAO43o

This is nice too, to Try by Pink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-8vzX3fJ_8

Stills and live action to Stay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfBAiMuPBwE

 

[aftershocks]

I'm sure Vanessa is used to such snide comments by now.

Unfortunately someone even said on another forum: "I like J/C's exoticness, but I don't want them to medal at the Olympics."

Seriously, that was said, and the person probably thought he was being well-meaning or complimentary. NOT! Sadly, I've heard such coded references before in a variety of instances, not just toward Vanessa in figure skating either.

Once again, Vanessa is surely used to it, and probably ignores it as much as she can. She's always positive, upbeat and smiling. Kudos to Vanessa, Morgan and their Florida coaching crew!

 

[nimi]

LOL

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/956502477427433475