U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

[kwanfan1818]

Yes, the two songs that are probably the most contemporary are Sounds of Silence and Bridge Over Troubled Water, since they have been covered by contemporary artists (e.g., Disturbed and John Legend, respectively).

That certainly has given the songs visibility.

For the generation before, ie, kids whose parents had been original fans, when I saw S&G perform at the Felt Forum, I wanted to murder the teens and teens in the audience who though Bridge over Troubled Water was a freaking sing-along.

 

[Vagabond]

That certainly has given the songs visibility.

For the generation before, ie, kids whose parents had been original fans, when I saw S&G perform at the Felt Forum, I wanted to murder the teens and teens in the audience who though Bridge over Troubled Water was a freaking sing-along.

Singing along with Art Garfunkel to anything would deserve a fate worse than death.

 

[eurodance2001]

Vincent finishes second in Tallinn but still with 4 under rotations in the free skate:

https://data.tallinntrophy.eu/2018/TallinnTrophy/CSEST2018_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

That's 7 under rotations in his 2 programs.

 

[Jammers]

I have to ask why would anyone go to someone like Tammy Gambill for coaching? Her skaters have a terrible reputation for underrotating their jumps just look at Karen and Vincent. Just glad she never taught Ting her jumps and i hope she leaves them alone.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Maybe Vincent's scores REALLY need to plumet for them to finally address the ur issue. I mean all those underrotations and he still received a somewhat decent score in the short and free in Tallinn. Message not totally received otherwise they surely would have changed his jump layout by now.

 

[VGThuy]

I think many of these parents didn't foresee their kids suffering from technique and jumping issues in like 10 years when they first went to Tammy for coaching, and how could they really?

Maybe Vincent's scores REALLY need to plumet for them to finally address the ur issue. I mean all those underrotations and he still received a somewhat decent score in the short and free in Tallinn.

What makes you think they're not desperately trying to address it? It's not like it's an easy fix. You think Vincent's been looking happy these days? You can tell he's upset and has been upset all season judging from the KnC reactions and his social media posts.

 

[Colonel Green]

Vincent finishes second in Tallinn but still with 4 under rotations in the free skate:

https://data.tallinntrophy.eu/2018/TallinnTrophy/CSEST2018_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

That's 7 under rotations in his 2 programs.

I was a proponent of downscaling the quad content, but when he so frequently URs even the 3A I don’t think he’s got much going for him that route.

 

[gkelly]

I think many of these parents didn't foresee their kids suffering from technique and jumping issues in like 10 years when they first went to Tammy for coaching, and how could they really?

Or anticipate quads, or even 3A and 3-3 combinations, until sometime far in the future if ever, when just mastering any triples was the task at hand.

 

[misskarne]

I was a proponent of downscaling the quad content, but when he so frequently URs even the 3A I don’t think he’s got much going for him that route.

I still think it'd be worth it, even with the URs on the 3A. Who knows, maybe scaling back the quads will help with that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think many of these parents didn't foresee their kids suffering from technique and jumping issues in like 10 years when they first went to Tammy for coaching, and how could they really?

Ten years ago underrotations were ignored or barely penalized. Arutunian was arguing that the system was too harsh on Asada, and the system has swung back-and-forth on a number of issues.

I'm a purist, so as a parent, I'd want Macintosh-level teaching on skating skills and pristine technique on jumps, and my kid would hate me to death.

 

[VGThuy]

From the outside looking it, it seems like most parents who end up having kids who are competitors don't seem to know much about this sport at all going in much less the community and who the coaches are and what skating purists say about those coaches' ability to coach necessary skills. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like their kid starts skating lessons, and it turns out they're pretty good. They keep doing it for a while and then they get really good and then all of a sudden you find yourself on the competitive trek. I know a lot of A-type parents are out there who start researching and stuff and maybe participate a bit too much in the coaching aspect, but I still question how much they can really find out that a coach's jumping technique is truly flawed or that their skater's skating skills are subpar, etc. if they don't know to look for such things, and especially if their kid is actually getting good results when he/she was doing doubles/triples. I also think the reality of logistics, finances, and such play a role as well.

 

[gkelly]

At what point are you as a parent willing to relocate with your talented kid, or send your kid away from home without you, and how far?

 

[Carolla5501]

At what point are you as a parent willing to relocate with your talented kid, or send your kid away from home without you, and how far?

And don’t forget how much are you willing to spend.

 

[DreamSkates]

Ten years ago underrotations were ignored or barely penalized. Arutunian was arguing that the system was too harsh on Asada, and the system has swung back-and-forth on a number of issues.

I'm a purist, so as a parent, I'd want Macintosh-level teaching on skating skills and pristine technique on jumps, and my kid would hate me to death.

"But some day they would thank you."

 

[misskarne]

Seven URs across two programs. Consistent with what he's put out so far.

That post of Zakrasjek's complaining about big mean tech panels picking on poor little Vincent has not aged well. Egg on face.

 

[Sylvia]

Ilia Malinin (son of Tatiana Malinina and Roman Skorniakov) came up in another thread tonight and in case anyone would like to watch the Novice programs that qualified him for 2019 Nationals, Malinin's Eastern Sectional 1st place FS starts around the 1 hour 27 min. & 30 sec. mark: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/watch/?Archive=327&type=Live

Eric Prober won the Eastern Sectional Novice Men's SP (over Malinin), landing a clean 3A for 3 bonus points as his first jump after the 21 min. mark: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/watch/?Archive=310&type=Live
Prober will turn 16 this month (though he looks younger).
Malinin's "Bring Him Home" Easterns SP (3Lz, 3T+3T, 2A) begins after the 1 hour 10 min. mark. I'm told he will turn 14 at the end of December (though he looks younger). 3Lz might be his best jump (like his mom's ).
ETA that William Annis also attempted 3A after the 47 min. mark (stepped out so the 2T of his 3A combo in the SP did not count but he received the 3 point 3A bonus as well).

 

[Vagabond]

Ilia Malinin (son of Tatiana Malinina and Roman Skorniakov) came up in another thread tonight and in case anyone would like to watch the Novice programs that qualified him for 2019 Nationals, Malinin's Eastern Sectional 1st place FS starts around the 1 hour 27 min. & 30 sec. mark: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/watch/?Archive=327&type=Live

He is very much his parents' son.

And it's great to see how the three of them interact in the Kiss and Cry.

 

[Sylvia]

Jack Gallagher, figure skating columnist for the Japan Times, has been in contact with Tomoki Hiwatashi for the past few years and included this statement by Tomoki at the end of his Dec. 4th column:

Ice Time asked Hiwatashi for his thoughts and goals heading into the competition [JGP Final].

“I’m very excited! It is going to be my first time, so I would like to do my best,” Hiwatashi wrote in an email on Sunday. “Goals would be to just relax and enjoy the competition. It would be nice if I can make it on the podium, but for now, I just want to do a program that can satisfy myself and would love the audience to think that I have gotten better than before.”

ETA: The JGP Final will be livestreamed for free on the ISU's JGP channel - the junior men will compete on Thursday (15:20 in Vancouver/6:20 pm ET start time) & Friday (17:05 local/8:05 pm ET start time).

 

[B.Cooper]

I am not defending Zakrajsek or Vincent, but the rules have changed this year. And those changes have been reflected in the number of UR in Vincent's programs. Neither can argue with that, if they watch the jumps in Slo-Mo. The 1/4 turn on the ice is now considered an UR.


I think Vincent has always struggled with totally rotated jumps, with no hooks on the landings (much like Nagasu has for years, esp on her combinations)....it isn't so much an issue of a coach not knowing how to teach technique....but the willingness of the athlete to take the time to go back to basics, relearn the jumps from doubles, adding rotations as the clean running edge out of the jump improves. Sometimes it's an issue of pre-rotation of the upper body, correcting the edge on take off, learning to vault up into the jump correctly gaining height in the jump as lower torso and leg strength improves with maturation of the skater, and with the snap occurring at the proper time, learning to use the power off the edge into the take off...so many variables.

Zakrajsek's complaining is politics...nothing new there.

 

[VGThuy]

I still did not read it as Tom complaining and I think it’s a bit of an intentional mischaracterization to read it as such.

 

[wickedwitch]

I still did not read it as Tom complaining and I think it’s a bit of an intentional mischaracterization to read it as such.

No. He was trying to convince everybody that Zhou's underrotation problems weren't that serious by implying he was unhappy with the judging. But the maneuver has yet to work.

 

[Tavi]

People keep referring to the < rule as much harsher.

I should know this, but is the change basically that the skater no longer gets benefit of doubt right at 1/4 turn? That is:

New rule = less than 1/4 turn is still okay
Old rule = 1/4 turn or less is okay

Or do I have it completely wrong?

 

[skatingguy]

People keep referring to the < rule as much harsher.

I should know this, but is the change basically that the skater no longer gets benefit of doubt right at 1/4 turn? That is:

New rule = less than 1/4 turn is still okay
Old rule = 1/4 turn or less is okay

Or do I have it completely wrong?

No, that seems correct.

 

[VGThuy]

No. He was trying to convince everybody that Zhou's underrotation problems weren't that serious by implying he was unhappy with the judging. But the maneuver has yet to work.

I didn't read it that way either. He did say he felt some times calls are inconsistent, which many fans have been saying even before this rule change. He spoke about having better technology or figuring out ways to streamline the process. Obviously, as Vincent's coach and coming off a competition where Vincent received lots of calls, there must have been a motivation for such a post, but he no where minimized the fact that Vincent needed to work on his jumps nor did he "complain" about his calls so much. If Tom was not coaching Vincent or if Vincent was not receiving those calls, I do think Tom Z. brought up a lot of great points and ones that have been expressed numerous times before.

 

[misskarne]

I am not defending Zakrajsek or Vincent, but the rules have changed this year. And those changes have been reflected in the number of UR in Vincent's programs. Neither can argue with that, if they watch the jumps in Slo-Mo. The 1/4 turn on the ice is now considered an UR.

This argument would hold a lot more water if Vincent wasn't already getting called for them before now. Seven URs at Worlds, four at US Nationals in the free, three at IdF, three at CoC - and that's just last season and it could easily be argued that some of those were very generous (particularly IdF). And he was getting them called in Juniors, too.

No. He was trying to convince everybody that Zhou's underrotation problems weren't that serious by implying he was unhappy with the judging. But the maneuver has yet to work.

Zakrasjek's post boiled down to "big mean nasty tech panels are picking on poor little Vincent and taking away his medals!"

I didn't read it that way either.

Then how did you read it, since you seem to think it wasn't posted as an excuse or defense of his skater's technical inadequacies?

 

[Vagabond]

New rule = less than 1/4 turn is still okay
Old rule = 1/4 turn or less is okay

Or do I have it completely wrong?

Exactly. Certain people are freaking out over an imperceptible fraction of onedegree of rotation when they should be more concerned with ninety degrees.

 

[VGThuy]

Then how did you read it, since you seem to think it wasn't posted as an excuse or defense of his skater's technical inadequacies?

I already explained it in my second post and in my original post weeks ago when he posted it. Other posters also gave their take that I agreed with at the time as well. You can read them if you like.

Exactly. Certain people are freaking out over an imperceptible fraction of onedegree of rotation when they should be more concerned with ninety degrees.

True. I wonder if it'd be better to just not allow a 90 degree grace area at all as the fraction of a one degree of a rotation seems to be a difference between a clean call and positive GOEs and posters on FSU considering a skater to have a good/great performance and a UR call where originally positive GOEs get turned into negative GOEs and some posters change their hot takes from a skater having a good/great performance to a bad one. Of course, give enough competitions with lots of UR calls and those hot takes become hesitant posts about seeing how far the TES will go down. I mean a fraction of a one degree rotation will still apply but at least at past 90 degrees seems further off. I also wonder how callers determine take off angles some times as well, which determines whether a landing is UR, with all the prerotation going on that only SOME people have a problem with since it's not called and thus people aren't as conditioned to see them as errors in technique.

 

[Sylvia]

Vincent is in Toronto working with Lori Nichol (Kurt Browning also pictured with them): https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq-2oHKHfZR/

ETA:

Jason left for Croatia yesterday and will compete in Zagreb on Thursday and Friday.

 

[Tavi]

@Vagabond and @skatingguy, thanks for confirming.

So would it be fair to say that the perceived harshness is mostly because the error is being called more frequently this season? I noticed, for example, that at both Skate America and Tallinn, a lot of guys were called for <, not just Vincent.

 

[skatingguy]

@Vagabond and @skatingguy, thanks for confirming.

So would it be fair to say that the perceived harshness is mostly because the error is being called more frequently this season? I noticed, for example, that at both Skate America and Tallinn, a lot of guys were called for <, not just Vincent.

Harshness in general, or specifically regarding Vincent? Vincent has had this problem before the stricter standard was adopted this season, so it's hard to know how much it's really affecting his marks. Obviously, whenever the ISU tightens the rules regarding rotations more skaters are going to get dinged for it, and particularly early in the season when pacing and fitness haven't peaked it seems logical to expect more under-rotated jumps.