U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

[el henry]

I am thrilled that the NY Times mag published an essay on skating, and, of course, pleased that the author feels Jason's skating is transcendent (as do I). Lockwood writes with more flowery flourishes and poetic allusions than I would, or than I would normally find compelling. But it is an opinion piece and an essay and as such, it works. It doesn’t hurt that I completely agree with her premise

She is certainly allowed to say she doesn't find other skaters interesting or even doesn't like them. It's not an insult, it's just something we agree or disagree with.

And I almost never use this emoji, but at Phil Hersh’s reaction. I swear he must have a book deal with Nathan or something. PH disrespects Jason’s skills, constantly carps about his jumps, and claims that is just the rough and tumble of sports commentary, but this author calls Nathan Darth Vader (which is way nicer than what I would say) and he goes ballistic. Dishing it out, but not taking it

And since I agree with almost everything else PH has tweeted these past few days, that’s kind of a shame. I hope the book deal works

 

[Willin]

I think Jason and Nathan are both great in different ways. Jason is textbook at everything except the 3A and quad jumps, and his performances are matched by almost none.

Nathan's truly the quad king at this point, and his performances are great. I like his SP more than anything Jason's put out since Riverdance. I think he's the future: quads and innovation. I think he's one of the few that can marry quads and performance. Do I think he'll ever be as good as Jason at engaging a crowd into a soft piece of music or stuff like spins and footwork? No, but if he continues picking interesting vehicles for himself I doubt many will care, and it will become very close between the two of them in that regard.

 

[Bookseller]

The article expressed feelings about Jason's skating that are closest to mine. He is phenomenal at connecting with the audience, and also the skill with which he spins and does his footwork and some of his jumps. Nathan has phenomenal jumps and very good skating skills, but he doesn't connect to the audience the way Jason does. Their personalities on the ice are completely different. Which skater you like better is a matter of taste and prior experience, perhaps, but both are outstanding in various ways. To love Jason's skating more than Nathan's is not to denigrate Nathan.

I actually was moved to respond to PH's comment about Nathan in her article. She was describing her husband's reaction to Nathan's skating, which was honest and personal. She mused upon it. He called her remarks gratuitous and I pointed out that his carping about Jason's quads was equally gratuitous. Both Jason and Nathan are great skaters. Jason was dogged all year by PH and others about his lack of landing a quad. Skaters don't skate in a bubble. They know what's being said and it can hurt or help. Nathan was the great hope of US Figure Skating. Jason was the past, he had no quad. I think Jason has a future and it may or may not include a quad. He has skills that no one else has. So does Nathan. But they are BOTH valid skaters and both competition worthy. Skating isn't all about the quad. Scoring may be right now, but there is more to skating than just jumping and I, for one, am glad that there are skaters who excel at the other aspects of skating as much as Nathan excels at jumping.

And as for her comment that Ross's skate was amnesia inducing, I took it to mean that his skate wiped out all memory of his not so great skates of the past couple of years. It was an accolade, not a brickbat. I am very appreciative of what she wrote, how she wrote it and for the insight into what makes skating great. Jason's Riverdance brought me back to being a skating fan, and more of a skating fan than I ever was before. It's because it was great skating. After years of boring, arm flailing skaters and lackluster performers, I was awakened to the new world of skating with great choreography, lots of personality and amazing skills. Jason is great for the sport of Figure Skating, and a lack of a solid, consistent quad doesn't change that at all. Nathan is exciting. He might win a gold medal at the Olympics and that would be great. But the breathtaking beauty of Jason skating his best will be much missed by me and many others at the Olympics. And I think that's why this article was written.

 

[aftershocks]

I think it’s important to remember that what you, personally, perceive as sneering or a cheap shot may not have been what the author intended - and as you know, she responded to some of those perceptions/ questions in the comments. I think that when we react strongly to something, though, it’s hard not to say, I don’t care what she says or how she explains it, I know how her words made me feel so I know what she really means, and it’s not what she says.

The other thing is, people are drawn to different things, opposite things. I think it’s good to accept that without feeling like it somehow diminishes you or what you believe.

I’m guessing, though, that if she’d watched that FS performance of Max’s at 4CCs - which I don’t think she would have done before her deadline - she would have found something admirable there even though he’s a “jumper”, because there was something transformative in his performance that was beautiful and moving in a different way than Jason’s - and she seems to be interested in transcendent experiences. JMO.

Totally, totally, totally, and thank you @Tavi!!!

The writer obviously follows and enjoys figure skating, and she has something interesting and provocative to say about the sport and her experience of it. None of us are going to agree with each other 100 percent of the time, and especially not when it comes to figure skating.

The point is it's cool to see someone analyzing figure skating and figure skaters in a unique and different way that's edgy and modern. As I said earlier, I could tell by some of her observations that Lockwood is a young person and thereby she has not been around to witness earlier decades of the sport. But it's important to live and breathe and document the now that you are witnessing and living in. It makes a difference.

I think the article is a cool love letter to Jason Brown. Jason deserves his full share and then some of Love Letters! Moreover, Jason deserves mucho support and encouragement to continue on finding a way to be his best self and to realize his artistry and athleticism in unique and uncompromising ways. He can land the quad in practices and warm-ups, so he should not be discouraged from continuing to work on it with reasoned determination, rather than drastic desperation.

I chose not to think Lockwood was dissing Ross Miner. Shame on her if she was even approaching such a slight. Ross is a skater's skater, with a huge heart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQiSzKF9M8s sp 2018 Nats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvuR1yP9h5I fp 2018 Nats
ETA: Thank you @Bookseller for your interpretation of Lockwood's 'amnesia-inducing' reference to Ross' skating. As I said earlier, from the context Lockwood's phrasing certainly did not seem to be an outright diss. Indeed it seemed to somehow be a complimentary 'accolade,' not a 'brickbat.'

In my previous post with past clips of skaters, I neglected to include fond memories of a number of skaters I also respect including Scott Williams, Hamilton, Browning, Stojko, Plushenko, Lambiel, Buttle, Urmanov, Joubert, et al. And indeed Max Aaron, so here goes (Max killed it with his eyebrows too that season):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVm1sNlgMQo sp 2013 Nats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBCCjgMG9LI fp 2013 Nats
Max's running commentary in the kiss 'n cry before his marks is sweet...

So for all Max's ups-and-downs since then, especially in recent seasons, this performance is indeed a victory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djcl9Gx9-oY 4CCs 2018 fp
Max's skating has improved. Maybe he will come back for another season just for himself and have fun, focusing on more that reflects the character and personality of his own skating, and not trying to live up to some lofty 'artistic ideal.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xllG3fSUAOw Or whatever it might be Max!

 

[VGThuy]

And as for her comment that Ross's skate was amnesia inducing, I took it to mean that his skate wiped out all memory of his not so great skates of the past couple of years. It was an accolade, not a brickbat.

I asked her about that comment on Twitter and she basically said it was because she doesn't tend to remember him because he physically looks like other male skaters. Basically, he was not on her radar until his 2018 Nationals skate but knew he was around a while.

I get that this piece was just her personal diary of thoughts, but I felt things like "amnesia-inducing" and numerous other things didn't really add anything to the piece other than allow her to get a dig in there.

 

[misskarne]

And as for her comment that Ross's skate was amnesia inducing, I took it to mean that his skate wiped out all memory of his not so great skates of the past couple of years. It was an accolade, not a brickbat.

She expanded upon it on Twitter. It was definitely an insult:

simply the fact that I always lose him a bit among the other skaters

totally a personal idiosyncrasy of mine — I think it’s just because he happens to physically resemble a couple of the other skaters.

 

[Mrs. P]

She expanded upon it on Twitter. It was definitely an insult:

Um, no. She is explaining that the skate was amnesia-inducing for HER, as in she hadn't really taken much notice of Ross and yes, that he didn't stand out to her previously until he had that skate.

You also left out the other part of the tweet...

simply the fact that I always lose him a bit among the other skaters ... till his breakout fs, that is

She also called Ross' free skate stunning in the piece. How is that an insult?

 

[aftershocks]

... And I almost never use this emoji, but at Phil Hersh’s reaction.

Hershey Bear needs to relax and gain some much needed perspective... (especially if he's planning to write a book)! And that cautionary suggestion to relax and gain perspective is for everybody who tend toward being OTT and defensive about 'quads.' Quads are what they are, and they are important to what's happening now. However, no matter how many points quads bring, they're not everything. It's too bad the sport continues to lack leadership with vision and common sense. Hopefully, credit for superb technique and for artistry will begin to even out fairly and sensibly without all the rush to extremes in scoring, and in how the sport is written about and commentated.

 

[Tavi]

She expanded upon it on Twitter. It was definitely an insult:

How is it insulting to say that someone looks like several other guys and that his skating never really stood out to you before? Are you going to tell me that there’s never been anyone in your life who hasn’t stood out of a crowd to you, or who you confused with someone else? The fact that this author has a very public forum to write a very personal essay shouldn’t mean that she has to edit what she writes any more than you do, here.

 

[Mrs. P]

Not to mention, I've heard more than once on skating boards that people felt Ross' skating was boring and unremarkable. I completely disagree with that assessment -- I've been a big fan of his skating for some time -- but I'm not sure why she gets the pitchfork considering that many fans have expressed that viewpoint the past. And she didn't even express that viewpoint, just that she hadn't paid much attention to him previously.

 

[wickedwitch]

Ross was second in the SP the two prior seasons. Saying she couldn't remember those wonderful performances is insulting. It's not the worst possible insult, but it's definitely one.

ETA: she's absolutely allowed to voice this criticism, but let's not pretend that's she's being completely kind to the other US men besides Jason.

 

[skatesindreams]

CNN videoclip features Nathan Chen:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/20...g.cnn/video/playlists/stories-worth-watching/

 

[Mrs. P]

Ross was second in the SP the two prior seasons. Saying she couldn't remember those wonderful performances is insulting. It's not the worst possible insult, but it's definitely one.

ETA: she's absolutely allowed to voice this criticism, but let's not pretend that's she's being completely kind to the other US men besides Jason.

For all we know, she saw these two SPs and still felt that way. Or maybe she hasn't seen those SPs. I personally loved those two SPs, but I do feel like the FS at Nationals this year was on a whole other level.

 

[wickedwitch]

I just wish the article had been "Jason sticks out even among all the wonderful US men" as opposed to "Jason sticks out among mostly forgettable jumping beans." (And that it had been readable.) Jason's strengths aren't due to others weaknesses. Jason's beautiful spins aren't any less beautiful just because Adam also has beautiful spins.

But I suppose that piece would truly be a fluff piece.

 

[Mrs. P]

I just wish the article had been "Jason sticks out even among all the wonderful US men" as opposed to "Jason sticks out among mostly forgettable jumping beans." (And that it had been readable.) Jason's strengths aren't due to others weaknesses. Jason's beautiful spins aren't any less beautiful just because Adam also has beautiful spins.

But I suppose that piece would truly be a fluff piece.

She's mentioning the other men in the context of her experience watching U.S. Nationals in real-time, on television. I think the reaction she had aren't THAT different then what we all have when we're watching and writing PBP on forums. Maybe we might not call Nathan Darth Vader or used her exact phrases, but people have said "I didn't like this" or "This was OK." or "I didn't notice him until this skate."

I also think one thing she does well is experience what it's like to watch a skating performance and the nervousness one has when a favorite skater comes along. Or the reaction one has when one's skate isn't to one's taste. If nothing else NYT Mag readers will know what it's truly like to be a figure skating fan.

It seems to me is that she's using Jason to lament about what she could miss as the sport enters this new frontier of multiple quad-jump programs. She clearly had a very visceral reaction to Jason's skating and performance ability and that represents, to her, something she'd like to see more of, even in the age of multiple quad programs.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Exactly, exactly! Thank you. Lockwood articulately expresses what's it's like watching skaters you love with your heart in your mouth. Skaters I don't like as much I tend to watch with neutral detachment, trying not to hope that they make a mistake, and then feeling a little guilty but also a bit relieved when they do. The best competitions though are those where everyone does their best, despite it often coming down to mistakes, however slight. I had a friend who was not a diehard fs fan but used to enjoy watching. Eventually, he couldn't continue watching because he felt responsible whenever any skater took a tumble.

Most of all, I think the article is important as you say @Mrs. P in the way that it expresses what many of us are now feeling who love the sport and beautiful skating that tells a story. There are crazy uncharted waters and quad shoals out there that are so unpredictable and seemingly so threatening to what we love about Jason's skating. Too often what Jason does best simply doesn't receive enough credit and accolades!

Ross was second in the SP the two prior seasons. [Lockwood] Saying she couldn't remember those wonderful performances is insulting...

I guess tell that to everyone who forgot, including fans and even commentators who might not have remembered without cheat sheet research.

Personally, since I love Ross and his skating, I hadn't forgotten his sp performances the previous two seasons. In another plea for some perspective though, even @Sylvia uncharacteristically once made what I perceived as a joking but nonetheless dissing reference to Ross and his last name post a letdown performance of his at Worlds. That was quite awhile ago and Sylvia may not remember of course. But I still do because as a fan of Ross', it stung. But I certainly don't hold it against Sylvia, and I didn't take her to task either at the time. I only bring it up now as a way to say once again: 'Lighten up against Lockwood.'

No one has to like the uniquely individual way Lockwood writes. I like her writing even if I don't agree with her every observation and choice of words. I personally extend her respect and admiration for courageously plying her craft as a writer, and for gifting the figure skating world with some interesting and provocative commentary!

let's not pretend that's she's being completely kind to the other US men besides Jason.

Hey, why don't we ask U.S. fed as well as Phil Hersh and other figure skating journalists whether that's a requirement for wielding a pen and writing about skaters and the sport.

Does 'completely kind' and 'figure skating' even go together in the same sentence??

@wickedwitch, I agree with your editing suggestions to the title of Lockwood's piece, etc. I wonder whether NYT editors had some oversight influence on the title? And once again fs fans, why not write your own reflective commentaries and submit to the NYT? Meanwhile, kudos to those who have something to say and who courageously dare to share their voices publicly in writing to a wide audience!

 

[Vagabond]

I can't think of any current other U.S. Senior Men's skater who even remotely resembles Ross Miner. IIRC, there were only two other blond men in the competition, and they don't look or skate like him.

 

[el henry]

Only on a skating forum would we study this article like it were Holy Writ

Here is what she said:
1. I really really really really like Jason. Like really.
2. Other skaters pale in comparison to what Jason brings to the ice.
3. That includes you, Nathan Chen, and you too, Ross Miner.

Come to think it, I've said this a few times myself Only not so eloquently and not in the NYTimes....

 

[aftershocks]

Only on a skating forum would we study this article like it were Holy Writ

Here is what she said:
1. I really really really really like Jason. Like really.
2. Other skaters pale in comparison to what Jason brings to the ice.
3. That includes you, Nathan Chen, and you too, Ross Miner.

Come to think it, I've said this a few times myself Only not so eloquently and not in the NYTimes....

I can't think of any current other U.S. Senior Men's skater who even remotely resembles Ross Miner. IIRC, there were only two other blond men in the competition, and they don't look or skate like him.

Quick someone send another tweet to ask Lockwood who she could possibly be mistaking Ross for, especially if she's been following skating since before Kristi Yamaguchi ever won OGM!

Is it any of the Swedish guys, alas none of whom will be at this year's Olympics? It surely can't be Sean Rabbitt since he's taller and has red hair. Andrew Torgashev is smaller and younger with a different body shape. Alex Johnson and Ross Miner look nothing alike, skate nothing alike. AdaRipp is not only a witch, he's maybe even from a different planet altogether, or at the least he's an island unto himself. Adam skated after Ross' 'stunning' fp, but realistically no true fs fan could ever mistake the two. Alexei Krasnozohn who is new to seniors has his own distinctive raw, still maturing style. Surely Lockwood is not confusing Alexei with Ross! Alexei was born in Russia, trains in Texas, and still sports a distinctive Russian accent.

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Ross+Miner+NHK+Trophy+Day+2+iDg4zxx1js3l.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Ross_Miner_2016.jpg

https://smoothjazzandmore.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/krasnozhon20jmfs3975.jpg?w=640
https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/7-Mens-Free-Timothy-Dolensky-731x1024.jpg

Granted that all three of the above guys are uniquely different and do not actually look alike. But if Lockwood doesn't pay much attention to anyone other than Jason among men's figure skaters, maybe she's gotten the above three mixed up? And speaking of 'Granted,' Grant H also is blond, but he's shorter and has a different build than the above three guys, and none of them skate alike. However, Alexei and Timothy D do train together in Texas! I don't mean to give Lockwood any excuses for her shortsightedness, or nearsightedness. But maybe she's sparked a new way of thinking about U.S. men's figure skating that contains seeds of a new board game: Six Degrees of Ross Miner Or perhaps the germ of an idea for a new adventure film, Jason Brown: Lord of the Spins

 

[vesperholly]

I think it was just what she thought was a clever way of saying that Ross is forgettable.

 

[Willin]

Looks like Jason Brown is being used to demonstrate jumps for a Wall Street Journal article on the different type of jumps! Considering how textbook his jumps are, I think that's a great choice. The 3A looks textbook here as well - makes me wonder if the competition issues are nerves or something.

Adam's posted something on social media saying he's going to do a fundraising campaign starting on March 1st. I wonder what it will be for...

 

[shine]

delete

 

[Vagabond]

Quick someone send another tweet to ask Lockwood who she could possibly be mistaking Ross for, especially if she's been following skating since before Kristi Yamaguchi ever won OGM!

Apparently, it's Jimmy Ma, Javier Fernandez, and Emmanuel Savary.

 

[jennysk8oboe]

would some wise person identify the jumps in that clip of Jason? I'm seeing 4 jumps but there are 5 listed. I thought I was pretty good at this, but am doubting myself now! None of them looks like a lutz to me. Thanks!

 

[Tavi]

would some wise person identify the jumps in that clip of Jason? I'm seeing 4 jumps but there are 5 listed. I thought I was pretty good at this, but am doubting myself now! None of them looks like a lutz to me. Thanks!

Not an expert and it’s kinda blurry, but it looks like sal, flip, lutz, axel.

 

[vesperholly]

Not an expert and it’s kinda blurry, but it looks like sal, flip, lutz, axel.

That's right. He tagged toe loop but there isn't one in the video.

 

[Tavi]

That's right. He tagged toe loop but there isn't one in the video.

Thanks! I watched it on my iPhone so it was kind of hard to see the takeoff for the second and third jumps clearly.

 

[A.H.Black]

Cross posted from Nathan's Fan Thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJTPhun2ZSY

Haven't seen this posted. Nathan talking about his 2018 Nationals Free Skate. The hair has already grown. I'm happy to hear him mention going to 2 Olympics.

I have seen discussions about Nathan doing 7 quads sometime this year. In this video he talks about being the only person (currently) who can do all five quads. I would love to see a performance with all 5 in the same program, though I don't think it will happen.

https://youtu.be/obR2TAVXzXA?t=214 Can anyone tell me who the other skater is in this video of Nathan doing a 3axel?

 

[acraven]

Looks like Jason Brown is being used to demonstrate jumps for a Wall Street Journal article on the different type of jumps! Considering how textbook his jumps are, I think that's a great choice. The 3A looks textbook here as well - makes me wonder if the competition issues are nerves or something...

I've seen quite a lot of really solid 3As from Jason on Nationals practice ice in the last two years, so I think his technique has gotten better/more consistent. I sort of suspect that lingering injuries are playing a part in preventing a higher hit-rate on the jumps in competition, because the fact is that he isn't perfect in practice, either. It's also possible that he just needs another season to become fully comfortable with whatever little tweaks they've made to the jump. He may not be quite 100% locked-in on the timing for that jump; that's not something I'd be able to detect.

 

[Clay]

Cross posted from Nathan's Fan Thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJTPhun2ZSY

Haven't seen this posted. Nathan talking about his 2018 Nationals Free Skate. The hair has already grown. I'm happy to hear him mention going to 2 Olympics.

I have seen discussions about Nathan doing 7 quads sometime this year. In this video he talks about being the only person (currently) who can do all five quads. I would love to see a performance with all 5 in the same program, though I don't think it will happen.

https://youtu.be/obR2TAVXzXA?t=214 Can anyone tell me who the other skater is in this video of Nathan doing a 3axel?

I could be wrong, but I don't think his hair grew that fast. I think he was "watching" a different version of the same long program. The video clip of the other skater is Patrick Chan, filmed last summer when they trained together.