U.S. Men 2025-26 Discussion - Quad God and the Mere Mortals

[Rukia]

why is 2022 men's olympic team selections always at the scene of the crime like there is no way to know if sending Ilia would have changed anything because it didn't happen! He had a tragic skate today but his life will still go on and he'll still keep skating and probably winning

 

[Capt. DeSoto]

We should have a conversation about a) what kind of expectations are reasonable to throw at these kids in the first place, and b) how do we make sure they are equipped to handle the pressure. Reviving the 2022 debate is asinine and will do nothing to keep this from happening to other young athletes in the future.

I think a large part of it is the U.S. media hype machine. Suddenly, with all of the airtime and promos and interviews, top athletes are suddenly cast as superstars on the American stage for 2-3 straight weeks leading up to their event. It messes with heads. It's especially bad for the few that are chosen to be a "golden child", like Ilia.

 

[zebobes]

Kurt Browning never won an Olympic Gold even though he was thought of as the best skater at the time (speaking of which, Michelle never won one either…). I think Ilia’s classy response was amazing, but it will make the next Olympics even more crazy for Ilia… but he has great examples like Simone and Nathan onsite who knows how it feels.

 

[bwayrose7]

I think a large part of it is the U.S. media hype machine. Suddenly, with all of the airtime and promos and interviews, top athletes are suddenly cast as superstars on the American stage for 2-3 straight weeks leading up to their event. It messes with heads. It's especially bad for the few that are chosen to be a "golden child", like Ilia.

I feel like the Olympics are especially bad for this (compared with other sporting events like, say, the Super Bowl or the World Cup) because the vast, vast majority of Olympic "stars" compete in relatively niche sports that the general public only pays attention to once every four years, as opposed to sports where they're used to tons of media attention. Your average champion figure skater (or skier, or luger) barely warrants a 30-second news clip 90% of the time. I would imagine going from "famous to a small subset of people" to "focus of international mainstream media whirlwind" would be enough to mess with anyone's head.

 

[skateboy]

Jason never won an Olympic or World individual medal and it was clear he would not at the Olympics. Sixth place finish is good sure but it is absolutely sacrificible for an Olympic gold medal four years ago and who knows Ilia would have had nothing to lose.

These people knew full well Illia’s clear talent and it was their job to make darn sure they did everything they could to prepare him.

Let's also remember that, just a few months before Nationals, Vincent became the only skater to actually beat Nathan Chen in three years, winning Skate America where Nathan got third (Shoma was second.) Jason never came close to beating Nathan.

 

[Skaterbob]

Let's also remember that, just a few months before Nationals, Vincent became the only skater to actually beat Nathan Chen in three years, winning Skate America where Nathan got third (Shoma was second.) Jason never came close to beating Nathan.

Historically, Jason beat him at 2015 Nationals when he won. But yea not after that. lol

 

[Allskate]

Not Gold for sure top six- doable

You mean Vincent who won his first two competitions before winning Skate America (over Nathan Chen) and placing second at NHK, and then who later won bronze at Worlds?

The same Worlds where Ilia came in ninth after some of the top men like Nathan decided not to compete after the Olympics.

That was probably somehow Jason's or Vincent's fault, too. I think they'll still be blamed if Ilia doesn't win the 2034 Olympics.

 

[MacMadame]

Due to Ilia's 2nd place finish at Nationals where he spanked both Vincent & Jason, he moved into Group 3 (Top 3 at Nats OR fall scores equal to 2021 Worlds Top 10).

And earned a spot on the Olympic team IMO. Regardless of results. Regardless of extra Olympics experience helping or not.

And I will never stop being salty about this. Never!

Maybe he needed to skate to Samoilov's music .

Sorry if it's too soon for jokes.

It's not. I mean, it's just sports for us. It's obviously more serious and two soon for Adam and Ilyia.

Personally, I found the event exciting. Will Misha medal? Will he move up to Silver? OMG, he's going to win Gold! Much more exciting than if the top 3 had stayed the same. Or even if someone from lower down had snuck into 3rd. I want to watch Misha's program again which is not something I normally do.

 

[A.H.Black]

I like to look at past scores - just an overview. Here are the men's championship winning scores from the "new" point system Olympics.

2022 men's champion 332
2018 men's champion 317 - Nathan had a 297.
2014 men's champion 280
2010 men’s champion 250
2006 men’s champion 258
Before that, it was the 6.0 system.

2026 men's champion 291


In 2022, Nathan's scores for all 3 segments where he competed were higher than any of the scores this year. My thoughts are that before the Olympics the pervasive thought was that Ilia would dominate and his scores would be astronomical - they weren't. That is only one observation of things that turn out differently than expected. There are myriads of others.

Maybe we could all wait to see what happens before we proclaim ourselves the end all and be all in knowing what would have happened if........ Maybe we could wait a bit before we pronounce ourselves prophets on what will happen because/if........... Maybe we could back down a little bit on knowing that our way of doing things is absolutely the right and only way to run things.


Finally - Shaidorov?! Really??? Oh dear?! Life will go on.

 

[A.H.Black]

Was this already posted? Sorry if it was.

Nathan on Ilia's free skate - https://sports.yahoo.com/video/ilia-malinin-falls-fails-to-medal-in-mens-free-skate-001957133.html

Thanks to Sheetz who posted it on the Nathan Chen fan thread.

 

[skatingguy]

Andrew Torgashev finished 8th in the short program, and 9th in free skate, so of course he finished 12th overall.

 

[Skaterbob]

Tatiana Malinina was 8th in her Olympics too and WD from her next. I'm gutted for the family.

 

[Rukia]

Andrew Torgashev finished 8th in the short program, and 9th in free skate, so of course he finished 12th overall.

just figure skating things

 

[Allskate]

Andrew Torgashev finished 8th in the short program, and 9th in free skate, so of course he finished 12th overall.

It's kind of ironic that Andrew - who has no Olympic experience either and has crashed and burned when he has gone to Worlds - ended up being the American guy to miss the fewest jumps and have his season's best. In a major splatfest full of men menning, he did remarkably well. I'll be the first to admit that I did not see that coming.

 

[becca]

The same Worlds where Ilia came in ninth after some of the top men like Nathan decided not to compete after the Olympics.

That was probably somehow Jason's or Vincent's fault, too. I think they'll still be blamed if Ilia doesn't win the 2034 Olympics.

I would have sent Vincent but this is USFS fault. And yes I think Olympic experience would have helped our Illia in 2022 because it was clear getting about in the top three after the short got in his head. And the second year Illia was on the World Podium. And won the year after that.

But this isn’t even just about Illia its about basic fairness for young skaters.

This sport is a reputational sport. Its difficult to get spots at GP events its difficult to earn PCS from judges if you never compete at the major events. It can be demoralizing for young skaters because its a never ending loophole.

I am fine with body of work when it comes to skaters who are proven medal contenders. But after that they really should leave the spots more up for grabs.

What makes me mad is mon

It's kind of ironic that Andrew - who has no Olympic experience either and has crashed and burned when he has gone to Worlds - ended up being the American guy to miss the fewest jumps and have his season's best. In a major splatfest full of men menning, he did remarkably well. I'll be the first to admit that I did not see that coming.

Well He didn’t have any pressure and it goes to my point that you have to give them some experience.

 

[bladesofgorey]

why is 2022 men's olympic team selections always at the scene of the crime like there is no way to know if sending Ilia would have changed anything because it didn't happen! He had a tragic skate today but his life will still go on and he'll still keep skating and probably winning

Seriously. No offense, but it's like in what world do people think this would have had some butterfly-effect leading to a win for Ilia today? Who's to say he wouldn't have hated the experience and quit skating after his first audience-free Olympics (or had a career-ending injury during the competition! Or watched the luge and decided to take that up instead!) or any other number of fantasy scenarios. This line of thinking is so weird to me.

 

[Allskate]

Well He didn’t have any pressure and it goes to my point that you have to give them some experience.

It definitely does not go to your point that you have to have Olympic experience. Andrew did not have Olympic experience and had one of his best competitions. (Shaidorov and others, such as Ilia Kulik and Tara Lipinski, won their first time at the Olympics.) It goes to my point that the amount of pressure is very relevant and that not having Olympic experience doesn't mean you are going to do poorly.

Yuma had Olympic experience as did Adam Siao Him Fa, and it didn't help them today. Kurt Browning never won an Olympic medal - not at his first, second, or third Olympics. Having been to the Olympics before does not magically make you immune to tremendous pressure. And I hope that, when Ilia gets over his disappointment, he sees this and prepares for the tremendous pressure he will face again in the future.

It's fine if you all want to believe that Ilia would have won today if only he had competed in Beijing, but it would be bad if Ilia digs in on this instead of really addressing the pressure issues.

 

[Karen-W]

It's fine if you all want to believe that Ilia would have won today if only he had competed in Beijing, but it would be bad if Ilia digs in on this instead of really addressing the pressure issues.

Actually, what I hope for is that some of the other men make it a real competition for Ilia over the next four years. I think part of the reason for the pressure is because, barring a major meltdown, Ilia did have a significant tech advantage over the rest of the field and I think that certainly played a role in the insanely high expectations everyone had for him going in to the Olympics.

Having said that, I do stand by my view that he should have been sent to Beijing - in part to have the Olympic experience under his belt but also because he decisively beat both Vincent & Jason at Nats that year. The USFS knew Jason wasn't going to be used for the Team Event in Beijing and he certainly wasn't a medal contender, so what was the point of sending him when he'd just been soundly beaten by Ilia at Nationals? It was a waste of a spot and it's obviously been lingering somewhere in the back of Ilia's mind for the last four years - probably also didn't help that people like Scott Hamilton & Brian Boitano have talked about how valuable that first Olympics "under the radar" experience was for them all while raising the expectations for Ilia this year.

 

[becca]

It definitely does not go to your point that you have to have Olympic experience. Andrew did not have Olympic experience and had one of his best competitions. (Shaidorov and others, such as Ilia Kulik and Tara Lipinski, won their first time at the Olympics.) It goes to my point that the amount of pressure is very relevant and that not having Olympic experience doesn't mean you are going to do poorly.

Yuma had Olympic experience as did Adam Siao Him Fa, and it didn't help them today. Kurt Browning never won an Olympic medal - not at his first, second, or third Olympics. Having been to the Olympics before does not magically make you immune to tremendous pressure. And I hope that, when Ilia gets over his disappointment, he sees this and prepares for the tremendous pressure he will face again in the future.

It's fine if you all want to believe that Ilia would have won today if only he had competed in Beijing, but it would be bad if Ilia digs in on this instead of really addressing the pressure issues.

Its not that I believe Illia would have won. Its that its possible he would have still lost. Its just that the experience would have been helpful.

And even if Illia had won gold today I am still angry at what they did and still feel it was awful exactly because of Andrew’s experience.

Andrew got to go to the Olympics and have fun with no expectations! And combined with his one worlds experience that lead to a good showing.

Its exactly why you send young people to worlds.And you give them opportunities.

Illia never got that experience. A month later at Worlds they are talking about him medaling and he is in the third in the free.

Thats a LOT. It would have been good for Illia to go to the Olympics just get to fun and enjoy himself before the baton was tossed and he is expected to carry US mens skating and win every competition he is in.

Exactly because they expected him to he an Olympic medal contender in four years is exactly why he should have been given.

They never once had those expectations for Jason.

As an athlete he knows what he needs to prepare. And as I said before its frustrating for young athletes if body of work keeps them from developing body of work.

Especially when they and everyone knows who is the more competitive skater. And the federation clearly expects YOU and not the guy who is replacing you to fight for the Olympic title in four years.

And you just have to look at his worlds career and see experience did help him.

If it had been a similar experience as Nancy and Michelle. A reigning Olympic medalist and a favorite to win an Olympic medal gets attacked and is capable of competing I think most skaters would understand. But not with Jasons resume

 

[kwanfan1818]

Brown was backup for the Team Event in case one of the others got Covid, which Zhou did before the individual event. I assumed they'd send Malinin anyway, and was shocked when they chose Brown, but had it been a regular Olympics, I don't think they would have.

 

[Private Citizen]

Yuma had Olympic experience as did Adam Siao Him Fa, and it didn't help them today.

Neither of them had an atypical skate, though. They've skated like they've been skating all season. Their skates, while poor, were broadly reflective of their abilities and consistent with what they've demonstrated throughout the season. Malinin had a career worst outlier skate.

It's fine if you all want to believe that Ilia would have won today if only he had competed in Beijing, but it would be bad if Ilia digs in on this instead of really addressing the pressure issues.

Agree. I think he should've gone in 2022. I think it would have helped yesterday. But he has to let go of that and to accept personal responsibility in order to move on and develop better strategies for (hopefully) the next time.

 

[Allskate]

Actually, what I hope for is that some of the other men make it a real competition for Ilia over the next four years. I think part of the reason for the pressure is because, barring a major meltdown, Ilia did have a significant tech advantage over the rest of the field and I think that certainly played a role in the insanely high expectations everyone had for him going in to the Olympics.

He did have a significant advantage, but I think it was exaggerated. Let's put aside the fact that he named himself the quad god. I lost track of how many times Tara and others mentioned that he did 7 quads in a program and had won by 75 points. Seven quads and that margin of victory has not been typical. Ilia put out that elements list for the TE SP that included a quad axel. NBC and others kept talking up the opportunity to see him do the quad axel and Andrea Joyce asked him about the 7 quads before he skated. I suspect that he really wanted to live up to these expectations. Some of it, of course, is his desire to do the max possible. I know it goes against his grain, but it probably would have been better for him not to do the quad loop and the quad axel. Those were the two riskiest jumps and what seemed to really lead to the unraveling. Coming into the Olympics, I really thought that he wouldn't do the loop, though I thought he wouldn't be able to resist doing the axel at least once.

I agree that he won't feel as much pressure from the media if he isn't seen as the overwhelming favorite. I don't necessarily believe that the media would accurately portray that, though. I think that Kaori is the favorite for the women and that there are several other non-Americans with chances to medal, but I don't think many Americans know that from the media.

But he has to let go of that and to accept personal responsibility in order to move on and develop better strategies for (hopefully) the next time.

Hopefully he will. I used to get the sense that he did not accept the proposition that he didn't have strong presentation skills or resented it, but after not getting the results he wanted, he did end up working on that and improving a lot.

 

[her grace]

Andrew got to go to the Olympics and have fun with no expectations! And combined with his one worlds experience that lead to a good showing.

Two world team appearances.

Interesting that 12th is a good showing for Torgashev in 2026, but 6th for Brown in 2022 is not commendable.

Its exactly why you send young people to worlds.And you give them opportunities.

Illia never got that experience. A month later at Worlds they are talking about him medaling and he is in the third in the free.

No, he wasn’t. He was 11th in the free and behind teammates Zhou and Pulkinen.

Thats a LOT. It would have been good for Illia to go to the Olympics just get to fun and enjoy himself before the baton was tossed and he is expected to carry US mens skating and win every competition he is in.

Exactly because they expected him to he an Olympic medal contender in four years is exactly why he should have been given.

They never once had those expectations for Jason.

I guess Brown should’ve retired years ago. Maybe before 2021 when he helped earn the USA’s ability to have 3 spots at the 2022 Games. Then he’s out of the way for Malinin, who, oh wait, still doesn’t get to go to Beijing when the U.S. only has two spots and he’s not in Tier 1 or 2 like Chen and Zhou.

 

[mtnskater]

I’ve heard Ilia say repeatedly the last few years that the USFS not sending him to Beijing lit a fire in him to prove them wrong and he doesn’t think he would have been as motivated to add all the crazy technical things he has become known for (and that made him a champion) if he had been sent.

Anyway, it’s useless to argue the past at this point. The best things for Ilia now is to learn the lessons he can from Milan and move forward. I enjoyed Brian Boitano and Christine Brennan’s podcast from yesterday where Christine said Ilia was so impressive with his reaction to immediately and genuinely congratulate Shaidorov and then to so graciously stay and answer reporters questions and talk to the media. She said she has seen so many athletes over the years throw helmets, slam doors, punch walls, refuse to speak to anyone and storm off. He exhibited very admirable sportsmanship at the toughest moment of his young sporting life.

 

[Yazmeen]

Well, let’s see - so far the blame for what happened to Ilia has gone to USFS, the media, Jason Brown. I assume the ice and the weather will be next.

How about we assign the primary blame where it lies? Namely to Ilia Malinin and his parents/coaches.

This will not be a popular opinion but maybe a little less focus on being the “Quad God,” and things like melodramatic voiceovers in his program, a little less ego overall would have also helped here and potentially not left him panicking and melting down when he made the first mistake.

I’m not trying to be nasty here, but he and his team bear the responsibility for setting him up to be invincible in everyone’s eyes in the individual event, and then when the problems started, he didn’t have the capacity to deal with them on the fly like he did in the team event where he wasn’t solely responsible for the medal outcome. I’m not putting this all on him - his parents/coaches should also share in the blame for not preparing him better and letting the media narrative just take over and become way too much for any athlete to navigate.

Put simply - take that dayum “Quad God” shirt and burn it. I love Ilia, but every time I saw him strut in wearing that thing I cringed. The “only every 4 years” American fans don’t take kindly to egotistical displays like that when the athlete doesn’t come through as expected. I’m hoping the gracious way he handled the outcome will temper their response and that he can enjoy the rest of the games and cheer on his teammates.

 

[miffy]

His reaction after seeing where he placed was one of the most admirable I can remember. So classy the way he went straight to Mikhail and told him he deserved it.

I’m not especially a fan of Ilia’s skating beyond being impressed at the jumps, but I’ll be rooting for him more in future for being such a good sport in that terrible moment

 

[dancefan17]

Well, let’s see - so far the blame for what happened to Ilia has gone to USFS, the media, Jason Brown. I assume the ice and the weather will be next.

How about we assign the primary blame where it lies? Namely to Ilia Malinin and his parents/coaches.

This will not be a popular opinion but maybe a little less focus on being the “Quad God,” and things like melodramatic voiceovers in his program, a little less ego overall would have also helped here and potentially not left him panicking and melting down when he made the first mistake.

I’m not trying to be nasty here, but he and his team bear the responsibility for setting him up to be invincible in everyone’s eyes in the individual event, and then when the problems started, he didn’t have the capacity to deal with them on the fly like he did in the team event where he wasn’t solely responsible for the medal outcome. I’m not putting this all on him - his parents/coaches should also share in the blame for not preparing him better and letting the media narrative just take over and become way too much for any athlete to navigate.

Put simply - take that dayum “Quad God” shirt and burn it. I love Ilia, but every time I saw him strut in wearing that thing I cringed. The “only every 4 years” American fans don’t take kindly to egotistical displays like that when the athlete doesn’t come through as expected. I’m hoping the gracious way he handled the outcome will temper their response and that he can enjoy the rest of the games and cheer on his teammates.

Sorry, but totally disagree. Perhaps there is no one to ‘blame’. There are likely many contributing factors, including doing an insane schedule of 4 skates in 6 days (which he agreed to do, but in his heart did not want to do), insane media coverage and social media presence like there has never been before, and practice ice with constant cameras in his face (hence, trips to Bergamot). Not to mention, sometimes your body and muscle memory just doesn’t cooperate on a given day. Heartbroken for him. But greatness requires confidence and pushing boundaries. I don’t fault him or anyone else for that. Journeys are rarely linear. And it’s going to take time to get back on his trajectory. Would hate for him to water things down over this one performance.

 

[DreamSkates]

I get the impulse from his fans to find someone else to blame, and exonerate Ilia, but... it's okay if it's his fault? I mean this in the kindest possible way. He skated badly, and that sucks for him. It doesn't make him a bad person, or a bad skater, just human.

That was one of his reflections posted in Instagram and also a comment by Scott Hamilton. They are super talented but not machines. There is a very human element in the midst of them being athletes.

 

[olympic]

I think perhaps Ilia was a victim of his own huge media success? 'Quad God' really took off. Everyone from Novak Djokovic to Simone Biles were coming to see him skate. I don't think Nathan quite had that level of intensity and he competed at an Olympics to nearly an empty stadium due to YKW. I had people at work and my housekeeper with zero interest in skating stop to watch him skate yesterday. I can't imagine the pressure that placed on his young shoulders.

I made a joke yesterday and posted in the wrong thread. But I brought up the Witt / Frau Mueller strategy of watching your competitors and then skating strategically. They left out attempts at 3F in Sarajevo based on what they saw in practice were Roz's abilities. Team Ilia was aware that Yuma and Adam for that matter performed poorly. Why not do a gut check before going on the ice and water it down? I mean based on the performance, he obviously wasn't confident he could pull it off. He could have tripled or even doubled the 4A (for the record, Ilia seemed to unravel when he popped it) and no 4L for starters. Perhaps skate your nationals performance? It would at least have put him in a fight for the top spot w/ a lead after the SP. But I understand that there probably was a desire to measure up to the media narrative that had been built over the course of time, but if he walked away w/ OGM after skating 3-5 quad program (Shaidorov wins LP, but say Ilia wins OGM based on lead after SP, and I think Judges would have put Ilia's PCS above Shaidorov if he stood up) He could have still vaunted his success because he would've won.

All conjecture at this point.

 

[DreamSkates]

THIS x 1000.

The one thing we do know is that the Olympic pressure caught up with Ilia and he wasn't in the right headspace to deliver what he normally does.

The End.

Plus he did 4 programs.