U.S. Men 2025-26 Discussion - Quad God and the Mere Mortals

[beckab81]

I wish Jimmy had been able to bottle that success from 4CC's and carry it forward. With USFS only using current season WS in their criteria, it's really leaving him on the outside looking in .

 

[Willin]

TBH I don't want Jacob on this team.

I want him to pace himself to have a great next quad. That includes learning quads.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Or it means that there is a third spot they were being sneaky about. Is that even a possibility? Do we know for sure that it was horse-traded away or was that just an assumption?

There's nothing in the Announcement that says that if a host gives back a spot(s), and a competitor from any member withdraws, that if their skater/team is at the top of the Alternates list, they can't assign that skater/team to their GP. I suppose, in theory, that if their skater/team is second on the list, they could try to cut a deal behind the scenes with the member whose skater is at the top of the list and have them pass on the assignment, but that would be a real outlier case. The member, not the host, has to pay for part or all expenses, depending on how long in advance the skater/team is offered the spot, which might be an incentive for some Feds.

 

[Kiki5375]

That actually makes me wonder whether he's heading to Skate America instead, but that would mean that Brown or Kapeikis is dropping out. Or it means that there is a third spot they were being sneaky about. Is that even a possibility? Do we know for sure that it was horse-traded away or was that just an assumption?

Even if that would be possible why would they give the spot to jacob only 1 day after Max won a competition ahead of him?

 

[Kiki5375]

TBH I don't want Jacob on this team.

I want him to pace himself to have a great next quad. That includes learning quads.

Well quads don't seem to matter since Jason doesn't have one either. But I agree Jacob is so young. He should focus on france 2030. That gives him enough time to learn

 

[Kiki5375]

so they are sending Max & Liam to Tallinn and Max & Torgy to Zagreb with Jacob as sub for Zagreb. My guess they are not only counting the scores in their rulebook but want to compare as much as possible. This is gonna be exciting

 

[Allskate]

so they are sending Max & Liam to Tallinn and Max & Torgy to Zagreb with Jacob as sub for Zagreb. My guess they are not only counting the scores in their rulebook but want to compare as much as possible. This is gonna be exciting

I think they are thinking not only about the Olympics but Worlds and Four Continents. It probably does make sense to look at what international panels do and not have it come down just to Nationals.

I am glad that Max is getting some more opportunities since he understandably did not skate at Four Continents last season and only got one GP. (I really wish he had been assigned to Skate America.)

Jimmy Ma is notably absent. Camden is also listed as a sub. Who knows how realistic that is. I think some of the listings for these events are just there on the remote chance that the skaters want to participate. Alysa, Isabeau, and Amber are all listed as substitutes, but I think it's unlikely that any of them would do it.

 

[Sylvia]

Maxim Naumov feature by Lena Smirnova for Olympics.com that includes a 5-minute video (Nov. 11): https://www.olympics.com/en/milano-...dy-new-programs-milano-cortina-2026-interview

Excerpt re. his time in Courmayeur, Italy this past summer working with Benoit Richaud on his programs:

Naumov initially planned to stay for two weeks but ultimately ended up extending his stay to six weeks and crafting both his short and free programs for the Olympic season.
“Our plans were changing on the fly and Benoît was so incredibly willing and helpful to me because he provided all the resources that I needed and he said, ‘You can stay as long as you want’,” Naumov said. “And we ended up doing that.”
While Naumov usually has a concept in mind when he begins the choreography process, he arrived in Courmayeur without any ideas for which direction to take.
“This year, I really was starting from scratch,” he said. “In the past, we would sit down and have a meeting and think about it, throw strategies out there, and we didn't obviously have that this year. And I kind of just wanted to be open, open to any possibilities.
“I came to Benoît and I said, ‘Hey, I'm not really sure what I want to do this year. I want do something great. I want to do something different and new and fresh and clean, but I don't really know where to start’, and we just got to work immediately.”
Richaud took out his phone and started playing tracks from a playlist. The answer came almost instantly. As the second option sounded over the rink’s loudspeakers – Frederic Chopin’s "Nocturne No. 20" – Naumov had his short program music picked out.
“Immediately, there's a feeling that you know that this is the one,” Naumov said. “Especially because there's no lyrics, it's that much more meaningful. It's a classic piece, and I connected with it right away.”

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I’ll sign on to the recommendation of Torgashev bringing back both of last year’s programs.

Only if someone stops him from bringing back last year's SP costume with the program...

 

[Karen-W]

I don't think it's really much more than giving all of the men 4-5 competitions over the course of the fall.

Ilia - Lombardia, GPdF, SCI, GPF
Jason - Denis Ten Mem, Trialeti, SkAm, Finlandia
Tomoki - Cranberry, Kinoshita, Trialeti, CoC, SCI
Andrew - Nebelhorn, GPdF, NHK, Golden Spin
Liam - Cranberry, Nebelhorn, SkAm, Tallinn
Jimmy - Cranberry, Kinoshita, NHK, Finlandia
Max - Lombardia, GPdF, IceChallenge, Tallinn, Golden Spin
Jacob - Cranberry, Nepela, CoC, IceChallenge

Max and Tomoki are the only guys who will wind up with 5 comps, the rest will have had 4 (unless Jason qualifies for the GPF). Seems like the USFS is basically just giving all of them the chance to fill as many data points or improve the lower scores if they have more than 2 Challengers/Sr Bs.

 

[Lil Sarah]

Well quads don't seem to matter since Jason doesn't have one either. But I agree Jacob is so young. He should focus on france 2030. That gives him enough time to learn

Jason doesn't have a quad, but when he is on, all of his jumps are crisp and clean and no matter what his skating skills, edge quality, emotional performance, etc., deserves way more marks than the judges can even give versus others skaters

 

[Kiki5375]

Jason doesn't have a quad, but when he is on, all of his jumps are crisp and clean and no matter what his skating skills, edge quality, emotional performance, etc., deserves way more marks than the judges can even give versus others skaters

All I said is that Jason doesn't have a quad and he doesn't or am I wrong?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

All I said is that Jason doesn't have a quad and he doesn't or am I wrong?

You said “quads don’t seem to matter since Jason doesn’t have a quad.” Which is pretty different than just saying he doesn’t have one.

Quads matter a great deal. A few skaters possesses other skills to a degree that they can be successful without them. Most skaters do not.

 

[panda42]

I don't think it's really much more than giving all of the men 4-5 competitions over the course of the fall.

Ilia - Lombardia, GPdF, SCI, GPF
Jason - Denis Ten Mem, Trialeti, SkAm, Finlandia
Tomoki - Cranberry, Kinoshita, Trialeti, CoC, SCI
Andrew - Nebelhorn, GPdF, NHK, Golden Spin
Liam - Cranberry, Nebelhorn, SkAm, Tallinn
Jimmy - Cranberry, Kinoshita, NHK, Finlandia
Max - Lombardia, GPdF, IceChallenge, Tallinn, Golden Spin
Jacob - Cranberry, Nepela, CoC, IceChallenge

Max and Tomoki are the only guys who will wind up with 5 comps, the rest will have had 4 (unless Jason qualifies for the GPF). Seems like the USFS is basically just giving all of them the chance to fill as many data points or improve the lower scores if they have more than 2 Challengers/Sr Bs.

Does the IceChallenge help much with data points? I didn't see it on the list of Challenger events.

 

[ChillSkate]

Jacob is a promising skater but he is no Jason Brown. He will absolutely need a quad or ideally 2+ to be competitive internationally

 

[Capt. DeSoto]

Jacob is a promising skater but he is no Jason Brown. He will absolutely need a quad or ideally 2+ to be competitive internationally

In the short term, yes. But he's still young, let's give him a little time before writing him off. If he doesn't happen to get his quads, he could always take his refinement to the next level. I think it's a good idea for all skaters to try to get to Jason's level of refinement for a long career, because quads are pretty rough and hard to maintain.

 

[Karen-W]

Does the IceChallenge help much with data points? I didn't see it on the list of Challenger events.

IceChallenge counts in the same category as Challengers/Senior Bs. The raw scores themselves do not count - the highest CS/Sr B score as well as the average of the two highest CS/Sr B scores are multiplied by either 75 or 80%, IIRC (I'm at work so I'm going off memory of the formula). In that regard, yes, Max's IceChallenge score counts, but it's offset by the fact that he only had one GP assignment, so the 2nd GP field is calculated to be 80% of the 1st GP's score - and that depresses the GP score average to 90% of whatever was earned at the 1st GP.

What will really help is if he can replicate the IceChallenge score at Tallinn Trophy and/or Golden Spin - or at least score in the mid-230s. He needs to demonstrate consistency in his scores and the USFS is also going to consider whether or not his scores have been improving over the course of the season. Right now, IceChallenge looks to be more of an anomaly than a demonstrable improvement in his general scoring range, which has hovered in the mid-220s at best for this season and last season.

 

[ChillSkate]

In the short term, yes. But he's still young, let's give him a little time before writing him off. If he doesn't happen to get his quads, he could always take his refinement to the next level. I think it's a good idea for all skaters to try to get to Jason's level of refinement for a long career, because quads are pretty rough and hard to maintain.

I'm not writing Jacob off - I literally said I think he is promising. Just saying I think he will need quads like pretty much all male skaters who are internationally competitive today. Jason Brown is literally in a category of 1 at this point.

 

[panda42]

IceChallenge counts in the same category as Challengers/Senior Bs. The raw scores themselves do not count - the highest CS/Sr B score as well as the average of the two highest CS/Sr B scores are multiplied by either 75 or 80%, IIRC (I'm at work so I'm going off memory of the formula). In that regard, yes, Max's IceChallenge score counts, but it's offset by the fact that he only had one GP assignment, so the 2nd GP field is calculated to be 80% of the 1st GP's score - and that depresses the GP score average to 90% of whatever was earned at the 1st GP.

What will really help is if he can replicate the IceChallenge score at Tallinn Trophy and/or Golden Spin - or at least score in the mid-230s. He needs to demonstrate consistency in his scores and the USFS is also going to consider whether or not his scores have been improving over the course of the season. Right now, IceChallenge looks to be more of an anomaly than a demonstrable improvement in his general scoring range, which has hovered in the mid-220s at best for this season and last season.

Thanks, it is complicated! We will see how Max does, but I agree with some of you that the judging at IceChallenge seemed more lenient than at the other events.

 

[PRlady]

Even Kevin needs a quad, and after Jason and Kagayama, he’s one of the hardest to beat on PCS.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Also, while Jason has achieved outstanding results, far better than anyone else could do without a quad, there’s no denying that, with a quad or two, he’d be a world medalist.

Jason has come very close, but there’s a ceiling to what even he can do without a quad, and that’s the best of the best,

 

[AYS]

To be honest, and I say this as a longtime very huge Jason fan, even he needs a quad to challenge for medals at the world and Olympic level (barring help rom several skaters). He is unique in having been near the top of US men and consistently top 5-6 in the world for over a decade without one.

ETA: I see TG and I were thinking along the same lines.