U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

[tangerine dream]

This is pure speculation but I wonder if USFS was pissed that Camden showed up SO unprepared to the GP this season, especially since IIRC there were other US guys at the top of the alternates list.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I'm of two minds about that announcement:

Personally I find it terrible.

But... as beloved as Jason is, I'm guessing the USFS figures there is little chance he doesn't make the FS unless he falls two or more times. Plus if they have indeed been (as rumored by TSL) ponying up extra funding to him to keep competing, I'm guessing they want their money's worth as a business arrangement.

I don’t share this sentiment and I can’t wait to march my Fannie into the kitchen to make some popcorn to read all the comments!!

Camden has never really produced at worlds. And yes, it looks like Jason is telegraphing a not existing triple axel but I’m more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean hee is top six the last two years.

 

[Allskate]

To this point, someone on X commented that the 3rd guy needs to be whomever has the best SP score after Ilia & Torgy.

Maybe USFS will just tell Jason to do a double axel in the short. LOL. He could qualify for the long based on that and his other elements and PCS. Of course, I'm not sure why we're that worried about a third spot at the Olympics since none of the guys other than Ilia and Andrew have been making a clear case for going to the Olympics.

I still think the odds of Jason going to Worlds are not great.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

If you look at just the Grand Prix:

Brown 79.03 SC
Brown 77.08 NHK

Pulkinen 64.48 GPdF
Pulkinen 64.34 Finlandia

Naumov 73.11 SA

Hiwatashi 74.59 NHK

The cutoff to make the FS at worlds last year was 73.23.

You and I have always been the moral center of this group

 

[peibeck]

I don’t share this sentiment and I can’t wait to march my Fannie into the kitchen to make some popcorn to read all the comments!!

Camden has never really produced at worlds. And yes, it looks like Jason is telegraphing a not existing triple axel but I’m more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean hee is top six the last two years.

Camden was 5th at Worlds when he last went. Ahead of Ilia, who was 9th that year.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Camden was 5th at Worlds when last went. Ahead of Ilia, who was 9th that year.

That doesn’t count because I blocked it out of my mind

And it was four years ago?

 

[Evgeniafan]

Yup. The only other reasonable choice they could make, IMO, based on the season so far, is Jacob - and his scores are all at junior events, so you know he wouldn't score as high at Worlds, even if his skating does warrant it.

Jacob went to Tallin Trophy. Score 76.63

 

[Firedancer]

Camden was 5th at Worlds when he last went. Ahead of Ilia, who was 9th that year.

Cam went to worlds last year and finished 20th

 

[Allskate]

Camden has never really produced at worlds.

He finished fifth, but that was his best year and it was several years ago. He has never matched his performance since then and hasn't really made a good case for himself.

 

[tangerine dream]

Maybe USFS will just tell Jason to do a double axel in the short. LOL. He could qualify for the long based on that and his other elements and PCS. Of course, I'm not sure why we're that worried about a third spot at the Olympics since none of the guys other than Ilia and Andrew have been making a clear case for going to the Olympics.

I still think the odds of Jason going to Worlds are not great.

I was kind of thinking about that. Seeing that Jason was scoring 77-79 pts with an underrotated triple axel, his best bet might be to go clean with a double axel after the bonus, throw in some kind of fancy transition into or out of the jump and soak up all the +GOE and PCS.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Cam went to worlds last year and finished 20th

I was waiting for someone else to say it

 

[kwanfan1818]

I can see Torg going to 4CC to get the WS points.

Right now Torgashev is 24 on the WS list. He can earn anywhere from 11 (20th place) to 738 (1st place) incremental points at 4C's.

There are men above him who won't be at Worlds: 3/5 from JPN (Miura, Tomono, and Yamamoto), 1/3 from FRA (Pitot), 2/4 from ITA (Memola and Frangipani, IIRC), so starting at 18, and possibly 17, if Brown doesn't petition/petitions but isn't assigned. That alone is the difference of a group.

These are scenarios if Torgashev doesn't skate at 4C's.

If Pulkinen goes to 4C's, then he'll certainly pass Togashev (1889 points): he's only 19 point behind him now. The nexts in line who could be at Euros/4C's who will be at Worlds are currently:

1. Hyungyeom Kim or Minkyu Seo -- only one can go with Cha

a. Kim has 1686 points, needs 204 net to pass Torgashev, and can earn between 14 (14th) and 640 (1st) incremental points. 7th or above would do it.​

b. Seo has 1479 points, needs 411 to pass Torgashev, and would earn full points. That would take 7th or higher.​

2. Vladimir Samoliov has 1675 points, needs 215 net to pass Torgashev, and can earn between 4 (20th) and 731 (1st). He'd need Top 10.
3. Mark Gorodinitski has 1641 points, needs 249 net to pass Torgashev, and he, too, would need 7th or higher. He would earn points with a 15th (19) -1st place (667).
4. Nikita Starostin* has 1406 points, needs 484 net to pass Torgashev, and he'd need to place on the podium.
5. Maurizio Zandron* has 1336 points, needs 554 net to pass Torgashev, and he'd need 2nd or higher.
6. Andreas Nordeback* has 1328 points, needs 562 net to pass Torgashev and needs to place on the podium to go above.

*I'm not sure if they have been selected by their Feds.

If Appleby is the GBR selection, then he'd need silver or gold to pass Togashev.

Depending on who does what, Torgashev could be bumped out of the 3rd to last group, and even out of the later subgroup in the 4th to last group. A lot of things would have to align for that to happen, though. Worse case scenario is a start in the first sub-group of the 4th to last group, if Mercury is really being pissy.

If Torgashev skates at 4C's, there are ways he could pass Litvintsev and Jin, and get into the later subgroup of the 3rd to last group, but he is unlikely to pass four ahead of him to get into the penultimate group after Euros. Hagara, maybe, but Grassl and Alexander Selevko will earn full points at Euros. (Has the Estonian Fed chosen Selevko the younger, or are they waiting for Euros?)

 

[Karen-W]

Maybe USFS will just tell Jason to do a double axel in the short. LOL. He could qualify for the long based on that and his other elements and PCS. Of course, I'm not sure why we're that worried about a third spot at the Olympics since none of the guys other than Ilia and Andrew have been making a clear case for going to the Olympics.

I still think the odds of Jason going to Worlds are not great.

Jason is one of the few men in the world who absolutely could make the FS with just a 2a and the other jumping passes clean, and that's not a bad idea, TBH.

But, yes, I'm not at all convinced he'll be at Worlds as a competitor. He's supposed to be in Japan for a few shows next month - that doesn't sound to me like a skater who intends on competing at a high level again.

 

[peibeck]

That doesn’t count because I blocked it out of my mind

All those Poppers effecting your memory?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

All those Poppers effecting your memory?

I can’t talk right now, Paul is coming over

 

[tangerine dream]

He finished fifth, but that was his best year and it was several years ago. He has never matched his performance since then and hasn't really made a good case for himself.

And he was a last minute replacement for Nathan Chen so there wasn't a whole lot of pressure on him to perform. The US was really counting on Vincent & Ilia there and Camden happened to beat Ilia, who uncharacteristically struggled.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I mean, if it really is his equipment …was it his skates that he wasn’t here this weekend I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to fix that, he has over two months. That’s more than reasonable.

 

[Karen-W]

Right now Torgashev is 24 on the WS list. He can earn anywhere from 11 (20th place) to 738 (1st place) incremental points at 4C's.

There are men above him who won't be at Worlds: 3/5 from JPN (Miura, Tomono, and Yamamoto), 1/3 from FRA (Pitot), 2/4 from ITA (Memola and Frangipani, IIRC), so starting at 18, and possibly 17, if Brown doesn't petition/petitions but isn't assigned. That alone is the difference of a group.

These are scenarios if Torgashev doesn't skate at 4C's.

If Pulkinen goes to 4C's, then he'll certainly pass Togashev (1889 points): he's only 19 point behind him now. The nexts in line who could be at Euros/4C's who will be at Worlds are currently:

1. Hyungyeom Kim or Minkyu Seo -- only one can go with Cha

a. Kim has 1686 points, needs 204 net to pass Torgashev, and can earn between 14 (14th) and 640 (1st) incremental points. 7th or above would do it.​

b. Seo has 1479 points, needs 411 to pass Torgashev, and would earn full points. That would take 7th or higher.​

Sihyeong Lee should be Korea's 2nd man at Worlds based on their Nats results.

2. Vladimir Samoliov has 1675 points, needs 215 net to pass Torgashev, and can earn between 4 (20th) and 731 (1st). He'd need Top 10.
3. Mark Gorodinitski has 1641 points, needs 249 net to pass Torgashev, and he, too, would need 7th or higher. He would earn points with a 15th (19) -1st place (667).

Not sure Gorodnitsky will get the nod for Israel - Lev Vinokur won Israeli Nats & has the Euros assignment, plus Mark's been injured.

4. Nikita Starostin* has 1406 points, needs 484 net to pass Torgashev, and he'd need to place on the podium.
5. Maurizio Zandron* has 1336 points, needs 554 net to pass Torgashev, and he'd need 2nd or higher.
6. Andreas Nordeback* has 1328 points, needs 562 net to pass Torgashev and needs to place on the podium to go above.

*I'm not sure if they have been selected by their Feds.

If Appleby is the GBR selection, then he'd need silver or gold to pass Togashev.

I think all 4 of those are likely selections based on who earned the Euros slots & their Nats results.

If Torgashev skates at 4C's, there are ways he could pass Litvintsev and Jin, and get into the later subgroup of the 3rd to last group, but he is unlikely to pass four ahead of him to get into the penultimate group after Euros. Hagara, maybe, but Grassl and Alexander Selevko will earn full points at Euros. (Has the Estonian Fed chosen Selevko the younger, or are they waiting for Euros?)

I don't believe the Estonian fed has determined their Worlds assignment yet.

 

[peibeck]

I can’t talk right now, Paul is coming over

Calling the nurse to get that Abilfy to you STAT.

 

[kwanfan1818]

To this point, someone on X commented that the 3rd guy needs to be whomever has the best SP score after Ilia & Torgy.

Where they start in the SP is part of the equation. As is their international reputation and ability to cushion their tech with PCS.

Not that I think it's a slam dunk to send Brown, who is one of my all-time favorite skaters, or even a good idea, but if it is a choice between him and Pulkinen, Brown has a far better track record historically, and even this season, skating far from his best.

 

[Allskate]

Jason is one of the few men in the world who absolutely could make the FS with just a 2a and the other jumping passes clean, and that's not a bad idea, TBH.

If he really does go for Worlds, maybe the USFS should ask him to skate a clean short program with a double axel when they monitor him.

 

[Karen-W]

Where they start in the SP is part of the equation. As is their international reputation and ability to cushion their tech with PCS.

Not that I think it's a slam dunk to send Brown, who is one of my all-time favorite skaters, or even a good idea, but if it is a choice between him and Pulkinen, Brown has a far better track record historically, and even this season, skating far from his best.

I can't disagree, much as I want to. The only other reasonable option, if we're talking about both SP starting order and likelihood of making it to the FS would be Sanchez and there just isn't any rational way to put him on the team ahead of all those other guys who outskated him today.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

And I’m just gonna say, do you really wanna sit through Moulin Rouge again?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Honestly, I won’t count Jason out for worlds. At this point, I think he probably wouldn’t show up if he wasn’t in decent shape even if there was no monitoring.

Neither Jason nor Camden is a great bet at this point, so it’s kind of a wash. Neither of them have proven to be in good shape this year, so you might as well take a guy with a history of coming through rather than a history of falling apart. And I say this as someone who actually does not root for Jason

I don’t think this proves nationals doesn’t matter. I think it proves the fall does. I think if the bronze medal had gone to a skater who didn’t show up to the GP completely unprepared and look the worst he’s ever looked, they would have taken that person. But Camden made the case for himself to be left off this team, honestly. He gave USFSA they keys to make this choice.

Interesting that Ashley so confidently gave wrong info tho.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Sihyeong Lee should be Korea's 2nd man at Worlds based on their Nats results.

Not sure Gorodnitsky will get the nod for Israel - Lev Vinokur won Israeli Nats & has the Euros assignment, plus Mark's been injured.

Both Lee and Vinokur are pretty far down the WS list, too, and will be skating pretty early.

Brown could be bumped from the 3rd to last group, but shouldn't drop lower than the top half of the 4th to last group.

 

[Allskate]

The only other reasonable option, if we're talking about both SP starting order and likelihood of making it to the FS would be Sanchez and there just isn't any rational way to put him on the team ahead of all those other guys who outskated him today.

True. I wish that Junior Worlds and Four Continents weren't so close together. I think it would be easier to make the case for sending Jacob to Four Continents (or at least as alternate) to get senior international experience, especially if they thought that Camden would go to Worlds. (I think that might be what they were doing in pairs - give the new and promising pair some more international experience.)

 

[Tesla]

I'm seriously wondering if this is USFS trying to convince Jason to go to Worlds.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I can’t wait for Dave’s podcast tomorrow, maybe I’ll watch that one to see all of his complaining

 

[Allskate]

I'm seriously wondering if this is USFS trying to convince Jason to go to Worlds.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder this myself. There is a certain logic to it.

What are the rules if Jason were to skate the short program, qualify for the long, and then withdraw?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

And I am not surprised if we see Jason on the Olympic team next year. I mean, I don’t think he’s been doing these past seasons if that wasn’t a goal.

Lucas was the one for me to watch, but if he still insists doing his quad jumps with his arms over his head I can’t take it seriously. And I really wanted to..