U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

[Karen-W]

Well .. I have mixed feelings about extra opportunities at the international level being an option for skaters who are able to pay their own way. My concern is for those who would lose out on its benefits because they do not have the financial resources to "purchase" this option (after budgeting for competition expenses of sectionals and nationals, among many other expenses).
Yes, I know a truly level playing field is not realistic for skating in general, or for life in general. But for me, I do not want to become oblivious to examples of inequity.

(marshallpond, are you talking about an option to pay their own expenses for an international outside the U.S.?
For Philadelphia International and Cranberry International, have skaters always needed to pay their own way? I think maybe so??)

My guess would be that any international competition assignments would be subject to selection by the Int'l Committee - with the notable exceptions being, as always, Cranberry Cup/LPIDI/John Nicks IPC - those ones haven't ever limited junior skaters on the ISP from entering. I can't see the USFS allowing anyone in the ISP to pay to compete at a sanctioned Jr B just because they have the $$.

There are several Challengers that have junior events held in conjunction and to which the USFS is certainly going to be sending senior skaters and, as such, we'll already have a Team Leader and support for the skaters in place, but maybe the budget doesn't exist to send any junior skaters. If they're interested and have good NQS results that merit consideration for one of those events, then it seems reasonable to put them in the pool for consideration by the Int'l Committee to be assigned, with the understanding that they would have to pay their own way.

Just off the top of my head, in previous seasons, the USFS has sent junior skaters to the following fall comps - Budapest Trophy, Tayside Trophy and IceChallenge. Budapest Trophy is always in conjunction with their designated Challenger. I don't expect the USFS to send anyone to Denis Ten Memorial and I wouldn't expect any junior skaters to be sent to Tallinn Trophy (scheduled for mid-November so any jr skaters would be expected to compete at Sectionals). But Tayside, Trophee Metropole Nice-Cote d'Azur (Challenger), Warsaw Cup (Challenger), and Golden Spin (Croatian fed has a junior comp on the schedule to go along with their Challenger but I'll believe the jr comp happens when it actually happens as it's been cancelled in the past). That's five additional competition opportunities for junior skaters that would exist outside of the JGP and that's not a bad thing at all.

FWIW, my suspicion is that if a skater is good enough to be seriously considered by the Int'l Committee for an assignment then there are likely club or anonymous sponsors who would be willing to help defray travel costs.

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

FWIW, my suspicion is that if a skater is good enough to be seriously considered by the Int'l Committee for an assignment then there are likely club or anonymous sponsors who would be willing to help defray travel costs.

I have not heard of clubs or anonymous sponsors willing to help with travel costs. To my knowledge, all costs fall on the parents.

I personally disagree with this "pay your own way" model. This forces everyone to be "willing to pay", whether they can afford it or not, to stay competitive and stay in the game. The sport is already outrageously expensive; this drives the costs up even more. Not only that, what happens with the Team USA concept... Now there will be Team USA "earned assignments" and Team USA "buy your own way" assignments. Disappointed that USFS is even considering going that route.

 

[Frau Muller]

Didn’t a lot of not-so-wealthy skaters have private sponsors…thinking of the older lady who helped Scott Hamilton. It’s not just parents/family.

 

[jlai]

I have not heard of clubs or anonymous sponsors willing to help with travel costs. To my knowledge, all costs fall on the parents.

I personally disagree with this "pay your own way" model. This forces everyone to be "willing to pay", whether they can afford it or not, to stay competitive and stay in the game. The sport is already outrageously expensive; this drives the costs up even more. Not only that, what happens with the Team USA concept... Now there will be Team USA "earned assignments" and Team USA "buy your own way" assignments. Disappointed that USFS is even considering going that route.

I am hardly a USFS fan. That said USFS has already expanded international assignments enormously compared to the assignments ten years ago. They used to not send jrs beyond jgp and a handful of post world competitions. I suspect it is a big financial expense for the fed.

From what I see the last few years, those deserving of a spot is being picked and selected to go already. I don’t see any major opportunity being ‘pay your way’.

So if you think it is not fair, then it will have to be nothing beyond what the fed can afford to send

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

Didn’t a lot of not-so-wealthy skaters have private sponsors…thinking of the older lady who helped Scott Hamilton. It’s not just parents/family.

I don't know about Scott Hamilton. In my experience and to my knowledge, all/most expenses fall on the families.

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

From what I see the last few years, those deserving of a spot is being picked and selected to go already. I don’t see any major opportunity being ‘pay your way’.

So if you think it is not fair, then it will have to be nothing beyond what the fed can afford to send

So be it, just like it is today. You compete internally to earn your assignment.

The model is not in effect yet, how would anyone know whether "major opportunities will be pay your own way"? Also, "minor" opportunities may turn out to yield better results from the worlds points perspective than fewer but "major" opportunities".

 

[Karen-W]

I don't know about Scott Hamilton. In my experience and to my knowledge, all/most expenses fall on the families.

Care to elaborate? What expenses do you mean? My understanding is that the USFS foots the bill for airfare/transportation and hotel when they send skaters out to ISU Championships, Challengers or JGPs, and they also pay the entry fees for the Challengers. I'm not sure if its the host fed, the USFS or the skaters who pay for airfare/transportation for the GPs, but the host fed is responsible for the hotel and basic meals at those events. And I would presume the GPF/JGPF host foots the bill for the airfare/transportation, hotel and meals at that event. The major cost associated with international assignments for US skaters has been paying their coach's travel expenses and coaching fees. Is this not correct?

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

Care to elaborate? What expenses do you mean? My understanding is that the USFS foots the bill for airfare/transportation and hotel when they send skaters out to ISU Championships, Challengers or JGPs. I'm not sure if its the host fed, the USFS or the skaters who pay for airfare/transportation for the GPs, but the host fed is responsible for the hotel and basic meals at those events. And I would presume the GPF/JGPF host foots the bill for the airfare/transportation, hotel and meals at that event. The major cost associated with international assignments for US skaters has been paying their coach's travel expenses and coaching fees. Is this not correct?

I was responding to a comment about an old lady helping Scott Hamilton, so my response was about training expenses and travel/competition costs not covered by USFS falling on the families.

You are correct, the airfare/hotel/sometimes food expenses for the skater and the coach at ISU Champs, Challengers, JGPs and other international comps (not counting domestic internationals - they are explicitly excluded) are covered either by fed or the organizer.

 

[ice coverage]

Didn’t a lot of not-so-wealthy skaters have private sponsors…thinking of the older lady who helped Scott Hamilton. It’s not just parents/family.

One example from four decades ago does not equal "a lot."
Although Hamilton is not the one and only example out there, I would have to see much more hard data before I could agree with "a lot."

I was very impressed with Aleksandr Fegan's musicality and movement last year. I thought he exceeded many of the senior men in those aspects...

I too have been impressed by Aleksandr Fegan. He updated his GoFundMe after his very promising 2023-24 season: U.S. junior bronze medal; fourth place at JGP Armenia; Cranberry International junior bronze medal.
Donations to Sasha to date are under 7% of his crowdfunding goal.

Donate to Sasha Fegan 2024 Victory Fund, organized by Aleksandr Fegan

My name is Aleksandr Fegan. I am a 13-year-old successful and up-an… Aleksandr Fegan needs your support for Sasha Fegan 2024 Victory Fund

www.gofundme.com

I bet Sasha would love to have an extra international assignment in 2024-25. If he were offered the opportunity to "purchase" one, I hope that he and his team somehow would be able to come up with the payment.

(I like many of the U.S. junior men. Just using Sasha as an example for the discussion of "pay your own way."

I know USFS is under money pressure -- has needed to reduce its staff and to cut costs in other ways.
But in terms of junior international assignments, I hope that it will not become a situation along the lines of "the rich [skaters] get richer.")

 

[Karen-W]

I know USFS is under money pressure -- has needed to reduce its staff and to cut costs in other ways.
But in terms of junior international assignments, I hope that it will not become a situation along the lines of "the rich [skaters] get richer.")

I realize there are a lot of international competitions, especially in Europe, but I'd like to believe that the USFS and the International Committee would regulate it in such a way that only skaters who hit a certain score at either Junior Cup or a NQS event are considered, regardless of whether they are in the ISP and willing to pay. Once you've worked through the top skaters who are assigned to the JGPs, you go through the next tier and assign 1 each the ones who have said they will pay. And then you circle back and see where things stand by the time the NQS, JGP, and October internationals are over to determine whether or not additional assignments are merited.

 

[Frau Muller]

One example from four decades ago does not equal "a lot."
Although Hamilton is not the one and only example out there, I would have to see much more hard data before I could agree with "a lot."
…

I was thinking about Scott’s sponsors, the MacLoraines…I just remembered the lady, because Scott spoke a lot about her. But almost all of the 1984 Sarajevo Oly US skaters had private financial sponsors, that I recall. (Tiffany Chin seemed to be better off…)

It wasn’t just the blue-blooded country club crowd then.

 

[ice coverage]

I realize there are a lot of international competitions, especially in Europe, but I'd like to believe that the USFS and the International Committee would regulate it in such a way that only skaters who hit a certain score at either Junior Cup or a NQS event are considered, regardless of whether they are in the ISP and willing to pay. Once you've worked through the top skaters who are assigned to the JGPs, you go through the next tier and assign 1 each the ones who have said they will pay. And then you circle back and see where things stand by the time the NQS, JGP, and October internationals are over to determine whether or not additional assignments are merited.

To be clear: I do not worry that skaters who do not meet some kind of minimum standard would be getting international assignments just because they are ready and able to pay their own expenses. I do expect that USFS would enforce a minimum standard.

marshallpond's post (which now has been edited) originally said, "With a crowded field of Junior Men in the International Selection Pool (ISP) competing for the limited Junior Grand Prix (JGP) spots, every skater wants to stand out and get the attention of the powers that be."
I would hate a scenario of USFS normally considering Skaters A, B, and C (in that order) to be deserving of assignment to XYZ International -- but Skater A cannot afford to pay his own way, so USFS sends only his "rivals" B and C.
Skater A would miss out on the chance to earn WS points at XYZ; to gain the intangible benefits of more visibility to international judges, more international competition experience, possibly increased confidence; etc.

I will try not to comment further, given that we have no official word on whether/how any form of pay-to-play will become a reality.

 

[Lutzes&Loops]

I would hate a scenario of USFS normally considering Skaters A, B, and C (in that order) to be deserving of assignment to XYZ International -- but Skater A cannot afford to pay his own way, so USFS sends only his "rivals" B and C.
Skater A would miss out on the chance to earn WS points at XYZ; to gain the intangible benefits of more visibility to international judges, more international competition experience, possibly increased confidence; etc.

My understanding is that's exactly what would happen under this new model. Skater A, if they are not willing to pay for themselves, would get passed over for skaters lower down the list.

Taking it a step further, it would lead to everyone feeling pressured to sign up as "willing to pay" - considering the investment that's already been made - sending the fed a false impression that they can rebalance their budget and cut costs even further, extending the pool for those who "pay their own way" and decreasing the number of skaters whose travel expenses the fed currently supports.

 

[Capt. DeSoto]

Didn’t a lot of not-so-wealthy skaters have private sponsors…thinking of the older lady who helped Scott Hamilton. It’s not just parents/family.

That is most certainly the exception and not the rule. Trust me, figure skaters aren't fighting off wealthy benefactors left and right.

I DO NOT like the idea of pay-your-own-way to these competitions. Lots of families of lesser means are already stretched to the limit (while other families barely notice the expenditure). I think international assignments should remain a 100% meritocracy. Wealthy families already have a significant leg up on training opportunities.

 

[overedge]

Not to mention the investments that families make - if they can - just to get their skaters to the point where the skaters can qualify for international assignments. Many, many talented skaters have dropped out of the sport because they or their families couldn't afford it any more.

 

[her grace]

It’s too bad there’s so few international junior events in this hemisphere. The U.S. has only Cranberry for singles, Canada is hosting none, and Mexico has an event in May. Assuming that the Mexican one includes juniors, that could be a cost-conscious choice—but it’s too late in the season to build international momentum or gain world standing points for this season’s jr. Worlds.

 

[Capt. DeSoto]

When a skater competes internationally, it's not just a coach that goes with them... I think there's one or more members of the federation as well. I'm not sure exactly what their role is. Would the skater's family have to pay for that as well? Would the skater have to arrange their own visas?

Regardless, I'm still 100% against this.

 

[sk9tingfan]

When a skater competes internationally, it's not just a coach that goes with them... I think there's one or more members of the federation as well. I'm not sure exactly what their role is. Would the skater's family have to pay for that as well? Would the skater have to arrange their own visas?

Regardless, I'm still 100% against this.

USFSA is on the hook for the federation officials. As for paying for coach travel etc., that's why there are fan sponsors. I have helped co-sponsor several skaters. One vehicle is NEASF, which is tax deductible.

 

[Debbie S]

When a skater competes internationally for Team USA, USFS and/or host fed (depending on comp and arrangement) pays for travel and lodging expenses for the skater and their coaches. I believe each skater is allowed one coach, pairs and dance teams possibly two (and in cases where coaches have a bunch of skaters, like IAM, the coaches figure out a way to get each coach they want there credentialed). Skaters are responsible for coaching fees.

With club comps, Sectionals, Nats...skaters are fully responsible for the expenses of themselves, family and coaches. Sometimes their home club will give skaters a small (around several hundred dollars) stipend to help cover their costs for Sectionals and Nats, but that depends on the club.

Some skaters do have sponsors, some can also receive additional funding through the Memorial Fund based on need (beyond any envelope funding they may be eligible for). But to reach that point, they have to be at a fairly high level, usually qualifying for at least Sectionals if not Nats, and by that point, their families have already spent a fortune.

So yes, some families would be able to cover expenses to travel to an int'l as if it were a domestic comp, and others wouldn't.

There are some significant issues with NEASF and similar funds regarding tax deductions. (And honestly, with the emergence of Go Fund Me and similar platforms, I wonder how much the NEASF is still operating.) I don't want to get into an argument here so I'll just caution anyone giving to them to seek professional advice.

 

[Frau Muller]

When a skater competes internationally, it's not just a coach that goes with them... I think there's one or more members of the federation as well. I'm not sure exactly what their role is. Would the skater's family have to pay for that as well? Would the skater have to arrange their own visas?

Regardless, I'm still 100% against this.

Well, I agree with you @Capt. DeSoto but I recall many top competitors at 1980s Nationals being there with personal sponsors…because I met them during practices and at the hotel chit-chats. But I agree that the feds (or Fed sponsors) should foot some expenses. Hopefully, the Memorial Fund still exists and can also be tapped. Otherwise, how would we begin to overcome the inclusivity/DEI/#BLM woes (&other racial barriers)? USFS either really means to right a wrong or does not.

 

[sk9tingfan]

When a skater competes internationally for Team USA, USFS and/or host fed (depending on comp and arrangement) pays for travel and lodging expenses for the skater and their coaches. I believe each skater is allowed one coach, pairs and dance teams possibly two (and in cases where coaches have a bunch of skaters, like IAM, the coaches figure out a way to get each coach they want there credentialed). Skaters are responsible for coaching fees.

With club comps, Sectionals, Nats...skaters are fully responsible for the expenses of themselves, family and coaches. Sometimes their home club will give skaters a small (around several hundred dollars) stipend to help cover their costs for Sectionals and Nats, but that depends on the club.

Some skaters do have sponsors, some can also receive additional funding through the Memorial Fund based on need (beyond any envelope funding they may be eligible for). But to reach that point, they have to be at a fairly high level, usually qualifying for at least Sectionals if not Nats, and by that point, their families have already spent a fortune.

So yes, some families would be able to cover expenses to travel to an int'l as if it were a domestic comp, and others wouldn't.

There are some significant issues with NEASF and similar funds regarding tax deductions. (And honestly, with the emergence of Go Fund Me and similar platforms, I wonder how much the NEASF is still operating.) I don't want to get into an argument here so I'll just caution anyone giving to them to seek professional advice.

Thanks for clarifying on coaches. I was not aware of that.

 

[sk9tingfan]

One of my skating parents said that she spent $500,000 over the course of her skater's career until the age of 18. And that was a decade ago.

 

[Capt. DeSoto]

Well, I agree with you @Capt. DeSoto but I recall many top competitors at 1980s Nationals being there with personal sponsors…because I met them during practices and at the hotel chit-chats. But I agree that the feds (or Fed sponsors) should foot some expenses. Hopefully, the Memorial Fund still exists and can also be tapped. Otherwise, how would we begin to overcome the inclusivity/DEI/#BLM woes (&other racial barriers)? USFS either really means to right a wrong or does not.

It most certainly is not the FS halcyon era of the 1980s anymore -- national interest in Figure Skating is at an all time low (in my opinion, I don't have hard numbers to back that up). I just don't think we can hope for the best that someone will swoop in and make skating more affordable and more racially representative of the nation. The wealthy already have a training resources advantage. Let's keep international assignments merit-based.

 

[Karen-W]

It most certainly is not the 1980s anymore -- national interest in Figure Skating is at an all time low (in my opinion, I don't have hard numbers to back that up). I just don't think we can hope for the best that someone will swoop in and make skating more affordable and more racially representative of the nation. I must admit I'm not sure what your stance is... let the wealthy buy their way into international competitions and everything will just work itself out for everyone else. Somehow. Someway? Sorry, I just don't see it. The wealthy already have a training resources advantage. Let's keep international assignments merit-based.

Wah-wah-wah. Sorry, but if you look at the ethnic makeup of the skaters competing at Nats, there is plenty of racial diversity - or do you not consider AAPI skaters to be diverse enough? But I digree, and so do you, since this thread is supposed to be about the US men.

 

[Frau Muller]

Wah-wah-wah. Sorry, but if you look at the ethnic makeup of the skaters competing at Nats, there is plenty of racial diversity - or do you not consider AAPI skaters to be diverse enough? But I digree, and so do you, since this thread is supposed to be about the US men.

Even in the 1980s, the Pacific Section was practically an “AAIP Zone”! My concern is more about caramel or black skaters, although we’ve had a few, also from Pacifics (Thomas, Galindo). But we need more.

 

[Trillian]

It most certainly is not the FS halcyon era of the 1980s anymore -- national interest in Figure Skating is at an all time low (in my opinion, I don't have hard numbers to back that up). I just don't think we can hope for the best that someone will swoop in and make skating more affordable and more racially representative of the nation. The wealthy already have a training resources advantage. Let's keep international assignments merit-based.

Both the cost of skating and income inequality in general have increased in the U.S. since the 1980s. Sports that are much less expensive than skating are still prohibitively expensive for many families now, and sponsors at an elite level in skating aren’t going to help the way they might’ve in the past. The lowest levels of USFS competition are so expensive now that most families of modest means either can’t afford the sport at all, or are more likely to choose to spend their money elsewhere. The problem isn’t going to be solved at the elite level when it begins at the developmental level. (ETA and it’s not going to be solved at the developmental level either, because it’s not a figure skating problem - it’s the society we live in.)

But skating is a massive expense even for families that do have the means to pay for it. So considering how much the talent pipeline is already narrowed by the economic factors, I agree that making international assignments more accessible to kids from wealthier families would just exacerbate the issue.

 

[Capt. DeSoto]

Here's some ISP skaters to keep an eye on at preseason events over the next few days:

Chesapeake Open (Maryland)

---

Caleb Farrington (Jr.)


Lake Placid (New York)

---

Will Annis (Sr.)
Aleksandr Fegan (Jr.)
Kirk Haugeto (Jr.)
Zachary LoPinto (Jr.)
Jared Sedlis (Jr.)

 

[overedge]

One of my skating parents said that she spent $500,000 over the course of her skater's career until the age of 18. And that was a decade ago.

In Morgan Matthews' latest Substack, she estimates that between her competing at an elite level in pairs and then in dance, her parents spent more than a million dollars.

 

[kwanfan1818]

That was 11 years, from 1998 in Pairs through 2009 in Dance with Gislason (1 season). That's nearly 90k/year, and she wrote in at least one of her other entries that she didn't have to pay for coaching when she trained with Zavozin's mother (parents?).

 

[marshallpond]

I remember the other coaches in Arctic (Canton) computing how much the Shibutani's were spending a day when they skated there, and the number was about at least $600-$750 per day just for all their on-ice lessons (not including off-ice classes and ice time).

Some parents just no longer compute how much is being spent as it is too heartwrenching. When you are at the elite level, just think that you could have bought at least 3 vacation houses with the spending on skating