Two year old snatched by alligator at Disney World (FL) resort

[ballettmaus]

I also think the parents made a poor decision. A sign says No Swimming, and you let your toddler wade in it? He was a couple of feet in the water, so past the water line. A small child wading in the water could easily start splashing or flailing around or sit down in the water. I like to think I would not let my child behave similarly. I like to think I would take a no swimming warning to also mean, don't let your toddler splash around. But I think we as a society have become lax about following posted rules, and it seems the parents decided the sign did not apply to what they were allowing their child to do. They will have to live with that mistake forever too.

Does anyone know if the child had these swimming aides? Because it just occured to me that letting a two year old wade in water is kind of careless even without any warning signs or possible alligators. 3 cm of water are enough to drown and a two year old is unlikely to be able to swim.

 

[Vash01]

Does anyone know if the child had these swimming aides? Because it just occured to me that letting a two year old wade in water is kind of careless even without any warning signs or possible alligators. 3 cm of water are enough to drown and a two year old is unlikely to be able to swim.

They may have taught him to swim when he was just a baby. I know some parents teach their 6-9 months old babies to swim. If that was the case, I can see that they felt comfortable with him in that shallow water.

 

[Xela M]

Poor family I don't know how anyone can live on after something like this

 

[AxelAnnie]

Does anyone know if the child had these swimming aides? Because it just occured to me that letting a two year old wade in water is kind of careless even without any warning signs or possible alligators. 3 cm of water are enough to drown and a two year old is unlikely to be able to swim.

He was, by all reports, standing with both parents and his older sib. The child would not (in these circumstances) have been safe with floaties, or by being "water safe"

Baby Center

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), a couple of small studies have found that swimming lessons for children ages 1 to 4 may lower the risk of drowning. But swimming lessons aren't a reliable way to protect your child (and they aren't recommended for children younger than 1). There's simply no substitute for adult supervision when it comes to pool safety.

Children love to play in and around water, but no matter where you find it – in a bucket, bowl, toilet, tub, sink, puddle, or pool – water can be dangerous. And although you've probably heard this more than once, it's worth repeating: A young child can drown in an inch of water.

And at a pool or the beach, it's fine to let her splash and play to her heart's content – as long as you supervise and stay close. Always remain within arm's reach of any child who can't swim well.

And, it sounds as though that gator could have grabbed any of the four of them.

I think the bigger question is: What were the alligators doing in a man made lake, at a Disney Resort? I know there are alligators all over. I know they can go from place to place. Did they crawl from one body of water and into the lake? Could they not have been captured and re-located once a week or something?

I would assume a body of water in Florida would be considered an OPEN AND OBVIOUS Hazard.

The “open and obvious” rule is an exception to the law of premises liability in most states. Some defendants in these cases offer the rule as an affirmative defense explaining why they should not be held liable for the plaintiff’s injuries, even if the plaintiff was injured on the defendant’s property.

The “open and obvious” doctrine provides an exception to the rule. It states that if a condition was open and obvious to a reasonable person when the plaintiff was injured, the defendant is not liable for failing to fix the condition or warn the plaintiff, because the plaintiff could have discovered and avoided the condition just as easily as the defendant could have warned the plaintiff.

Florida Water Alligators - I think we could call that open and obvious.

OH Bill O'Reilly is interviewing Jeff Quattrocchi a Florida Wildlife expert. Bill asked why didn't they just take the alligators out. He said they could have, but usually places wait until someone reports a problem. Mr. Q. said signage is critical. People who come out from the midwest don't realize that everyday in Florida pets are taken and killed by alligators.

What a mess. And like many things in life, as you look back, it could have been prevented at several different points.

 

[IceAlisa]

I think the bigger question is: What were the alligators doing in a man made lake, at a Disney Resort?

You answered your own question here:

I know there are alligators all over. I know they can go from place to place. Did they crawl from one body of water and into the lake?

Yes, yes and yes.

Could they not have been captured and re-located once a week or something?

Apparently there are too many of them on the huge property. So no. Like this guy said today, Jurassic Park.

I would assume a body of water in Florida would be considered an OPEN AND OBVIOUS Hazard.

Florida Water Alligators - I think we could call that open and obvious.

I know that, you know that but some poor slobs from Nevada didn't. You sound incredulous that gators were in a man made lake at a Disney Resort. So it's not an open and obvious hazard to everyone. It was upon Disney to protect and warn its guests, because clearly not everyone was made aware of the danger.

 

[Sylvia]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-alligator-history-20160615-story.html

"The entire property is interconnected via canals so it is difficult to keep them out of the lakes," former Disney executive Duncan Dickson said in an email. "Gators are on all of the golf courses. The team attempts to relocate the gators to the uninhabited natural areas as best they can, but the gators don't understand the boundaries."

Disney said it works closely with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission on a comprehensive approach to alligator management, including reducing the potential for interaction with humans. Disney said its employees call in sightings from guests, and technicians from the pest management team are dispatched. Technicians encourage gators back into the water when possible and determine if they need to be caught.
Disney relocates alligators considered a nuisance, meaning they continually show up on the banks of waterways sunning themselves, don't fear humans or have done damage. Disney can catch and release alligators 4 feet or smaller. The state handles larger ones.

 

[PDilemma]

You answered your own question here:
Yes, yes and yes.
Apparently there are too many of them on the huge property. So no. Like this guy said today, Jurassic Park.
I know that, you know that but some poor slobs from Nevada didn't. You sound incredulous that gators were in a man made lake at a Disney Resort. So it's not an open and obvious hazard to everyone. It was upon Disney to protect and warn its guests, because clearly not everyone was made aware of the danger.

Nebraska and all indications were that the family are not by any means "poor slobs".

Per the Omaha World-Herald, Matt Graves, the father, is a member of the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce Board and has an MBA.

 

[IceAlisa]

Nebraska and all indications were that the family are not by any means "poor slobs".

Per the Omaha World-Herald, Matt Graves, the father, is a member of the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce Board and has an MBA.

Oh, OK. I didn't know that having an MBA automatically disqualified you from being a "poor slob". See definition 2.

 

[PDilemma]

Oh, OK. I didn't know that having an MBA automatically disqualified you from being a "poor slob". See definition 2.

Is there a reason that these people need to be insulted in that manner?

 

[IceAlisa]

Is there a reason that these people need to be insulted in that manner?

Huh? Calling someone an ordinary person is an insult?

 

[misskarne]

Maybe it's a cultural thing but if I see a sign that says "no swimming", I'm not going anywhere near that water, no way, no how. Because if it says no swimming, there must be a reason, and a very good one.

 

[IceAlisa]

Here's a picture of the beach where it happened with another toddler playing by the water, obviously taken before this incident. https://www.yahoo.com/gma/orlando-n...ere-gator-200208496--abc-news-topstories.html

The aerial view of the body of water shows it's murky and gross. I've always had a fear of water I can't see through.

 

[Cachoo]

Now we know why there is no swimming but I could see me putting my toes in the water to cool off even with a no swimming sign. There needs to be gators in the water warnings. That would have kept me far away.

 

[overedge]

I would assume a body of water in Florida would be considered an OPEN AND OBVIOUS Hazard.

Florida Water Alligators - I think we could call that open and obvious.

If someone is not from a part of the country where there are alligators in the wild, they might not know where alligators tend to be found, how fast they can move, or what attracts them to attack. It's not as open or obvious as you seem to think.

 

[ballettmaus]

If someone is not from a part of the country where there are alligators in the wild, they might not know where alligators tend to be found, how fast they can move, or what attracts them to attack. It's not as open or obvious as you seem to think.

I'm from Germany, a city no less. The wildest animal we have here are wild boar and those only at the edge of the city and yet I know about alligators and that they're to be expected in any fresh body of water in Florida.
Although, in the parents' defense, I have to admit that I would not have expected an alligator to be lurking in the seven seas lagoon. It's such a prominent body of water, frequented, with beaches that belong to the resorts and I think I've seen people with jet skis and kayaks on it, so I assumed Disney scoured the lake ever so often to make sure it was safe. But as someone posted a link to upthread - Disney is doing their best and some alligators do slip through the cracks and it's still Florida.

 

[once_upon]

There is a very touching post by a mother who was actually at that lake with her 2 or 3 yr old 30 minutes before this child was dragged away. She posted pictures of her family doing similar things...wading in the water.

She went on to explain that they and other guests were aware of what happened, hearing helicopters overhead until 11 pm and starting up again at 7.

She said that for now we should quit critizing and just support the parents with their grief.

I agree

 

[vesperholly]

Now we know why there is no swimming but I could see me putting my toes in the water to cool off even with a no swimming sign. There needs to be gators in the water warnings. That would have kept me far away.

This exactly. Wading in even ankle-deep water is not the same as swimming to me. Although, from the pictures of the lake, it looks completely gross so maybe I wouldn't have done. If I saw an alligator warning sign, though

I'm from NY and have been to Florida many times, but we always stayed on the Gulf Coast. Trips to Disney were only a few days and focused on parks - they did not include relaxing on a lakefront beach. Truth be told, I would not have expected alligators either. That poor kiddo.

 

[AxelAnnie]

You answered your own question here:
Yes, yes and yes.
Apparently there are too many of them on the huge property. So no. Like this guy said today, Jurassic Park.
I know that, you know that but some poor slobs from Nevada didn't. You sound incredulous that gators were in a man made lake at a Disney Resort. So it's not an open and obvious hazard to everyone. It was upon Disney to protect and warn its guests, because clearly not everyone was made aware of the danger.

Poor slobs from Nevada. Did you really say that? And I am incredulous about your characterization.
That at a vacation resort catering to families from all over the world would allow these horrible and dangerous predators to be on site. it is mating season. Can the resort have created a lake that alligators could never get to? You betcha. and the can regularly remove any sneaky gator that got in. Zoos don't leave gorillas running around the zoo.
Why in the would would you have a lake on your resort that has deadly killer animals in an area where people can get their feet wet and be killed? if you can't keep the attraction safe why have it?

Fence the $hit out of it. Use steel mesh curtains to block their egress.

Florida. Water. Alligator. Open and Obvious danger exception is a fact not my opinion. is it applicable here? Maybe.

And you can have signs saying alligator danger. but what help is that really? They are difficult to see when they are lurking and can lunge and attack in with lightening speed. the only way to be safe is either no access to the lake or a best effort to keep it alligator free.

 

[IceAlisa]

I was reading comments underneath a yahoo article on how to deal with a gator attack (ha!) and one of the comments made an excellent point.

There are tourists who visit California beaches who have no clue about rip currents and just let their kids play in the water while they drink, sleep and otherwise don't pay attention to them. Apparently, the commenter is a surfer who said they'd pulled dozens of kids out of a rip current only to be faced with MYOB parents. Lifeguards apparently do the same and are met with the same attitude.

The point is, not everyone does extensive research of the location they are about to visit. Being at "the happiest place on Earth" probably adds a whole other layer of nonchalance.

 

[Kecasyl]

When Disney first opened they had River Country which was east of the Contemporary Hotel and south of Discovery Island. A 11 year old boy died of a bad infection caused by the ameba and it was found that this parasite had spread to the point that they closed River Country in 2001 and forbade swimming in any portion of the lake, including 7 seas lagoon. This parasite is common to most of Florida's lakes and through many other lakes throughout the south where temperatures are very warm for long period of times.

The lake around 7 seas lagoon does have a very marine smell to it and there is a lot of brown algae which makes it unpleasant to dip your foot in.

There use to be a lot of boats on the lagoon from the various hotels but they cut that out as well. I imagine the drop in boat traffic allowed for the alligators to move into the 7 seas lagoon through the canal, that is just south of the Contemporary Hotel.

There actually are still boat ferries and such from the Central Transportation and Ticket Center or the (TTC) and the various hotels to the Magic Kingdom theme park and back, but at night when that slows down or ceases it allows for gators to move in from connecting canals and Bay Lake. They can't keep all of the gators out and they do try their best to relocate them. A big problem that may have indirectly contributed was other not so intelligent tourists feeding alligators when they saw them, which then make the gators unafraid to hunt for food close to shore and to go near people.

 

[overedge]

I'm from Germany, a city no less. The wildest animal we have here are wild boar and those only at the edge of the city and yet I know about alligators and that they're to be expected in any fresh body of water in Florida.

Even one that's artificial and in the middle of a well-patrolled and well-managed resort?

Not that personal stories equal reliable data, but where I grew up, the only live alligators I ever saw were the ones at the zoo. And they never did much more than loll around in the sunshine. When I saw a live one in the wild, in Louisiana, I was shocked at how fast such a large and heavy creature could move when it wanted to. Now I would never go near any body of water in alligator country that wasn't a swimming pool or that didn't have clear water so I could see what was in there.

 

[Tinami Amori]

This is a very freaky set of circumstances. Must have been a very hungry alligator… From what I learned on a few work-related trips to Mato Grosso, alligators usually hunt at night, in complete darkness, and sleep during the day.

They sit in the waters within 1-2 meter from shore and hunt for birds and small animals, and sometime on shore hiding in tall grass. They rarely attack any moving live object that is larger (in size and/or volume) than ¼ of their own body. And ran away if resisted by a fair size animal, let alone a human....

http://art-post.net/images/DEC-2010-260-alligator-lg.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/59/58/21/595821a6372b2edb69840640ad43b844.jpg

How the heck a 4-6 foot alligator decided to grab a 2 year-old boy probably 2-3 feet tall, standing only knee deep in the water in the middle of the day at a noisy resort, is a mystery.

I don’t think anyone could have prevented it by any reasonable calculations, not the parents, and not the resort management.

 

[overedge]

How the heck a 4-6 foot alligator decided to grab a 2 year-old boy probably 2-3 feet tall, standing only knee deep in the water in the middle of the day at a noisy resort

The attack happened at night, around 9 pm.

 

[TOADS]

There actually are still boat ferries and such from the Central Transportation and Ticket Center or the (TTC) and the various hotels to the Magic Kingdom theme park and back, but at night when that slows down or ceases it allows for gators to move in from connecting canals and Bay Lake. They can't keep all of the gators out and they do try their best to relocate them. A big problem that may have indirectly contributed was other not so intelligent tourists feeding alligators when they saw them, which then make the gators unafraid to hunt for food close to shore and to go near people.

Yes they still run. But there was a time when the lake would be filled with small motorboats and sailboats from the resorts which buzzed across the lakes during the days.

 

[misskarne]

I don’t think anyone could have prevented it by any reasonable calculations, not the parents, and not the resort management.

The parents made the decision to ignore multiple "No Swimming" signs and allowed their toddler child to splash in the water. This was absolutely preventable with the application of a little bit of common sense.

The attack happened at night, around 9 pm.

It just gets worse! At night, what might seem to be a small animal (to the alligator) splashing around in the water...my lord.

 

[Susan1]

Although, from the pictures of the lake, it looks completely gross so maybe I wouldn't have done.

Yeah - wondering if they would have let their 2 year old child play around a murky lake at 9:30 at night in Nebraska.

 

[TOADS]

Yeah - wondering if they would have let their 2 year old child play around a murky lake at 9:30 at night in Nebraska.

It is pretty murky with lots of algae and it has very strong algae odor . We were at that exact spot last year when we were down there and it was pretty foul...

 

[Skittl1321]

Yeah - wondering if they would have let their 2 year old child play around a murky lake at 9:30 at night in Nebraska.

If their city had a movie on the beach at night, then they probably might. Although it was a false assumption, they likely assumed that if Disney sanctioned beaches around this lake, it was safe to be on them. Not everyone equates "no swimming" with "no wading", as the activities are different things.

There are things the parents could have done differently, sure- but I don't think they were being so egregiously negligent they deserve even a fraction of the blame the internet seems to be putting on them. I cannot fathom their pain right now.

I'm surprised to hear Disney does not have alligator warnings. I've stayed on off sight hotels, nowhere near water, and seen signs in the gardens that warn alligators may be in the plants.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

That is a pretty ugly looking "lake". I don't even know why they would make something like that on their property knowing that it would not only attract alligators, but mosquitoes too. It looks like it could harbor some nasty bacteria as well as just plain stink. They should have stuck to a fenced pool.

I understand there was a body of water there originally; and a swampy area. So even if they hadn't turned it into a formal lake, there would still be gators.

I admit, however, that when I went to the resort, I thought it odd that they had built actual beaches, with beach chairs and everything, along a body of water you were not allowed to swim in. To me, beach = swimming. But they use the beaches for events - still, though, I found it odd. But it is also the case that the pools are *right there*, and EXTREMELY inviting, and open either until midnight or even 24 hours, and that the lake is kind of gross and not something that you'd want to wade in, never mind at night.

With that said, there are no oceans and very few swimmable bodies of water in Nebraska, where this family is from. They wouldn't have known that you don't do things like go into bodies of water at night (lots of animals feed then.) I myself didn't know that until I moved to a beach community and the folks there told me. And yes, they made a stupid decision to ignore the signs, but we've all made stupid decisions in our lives - it's just that most of us have gotten away with them. They did not.

I agree, however, that it's not a bad idea for Disney to post that the lake has gators, for tourists who perhaps don't realize how extensive gators are in FL. I do understand why they had not, though - they hadn't had an alligator incident in something like 50 years, which is pretty much the entire history of the resort, yes?

 

[antmanb]

What the feck is wrong with people that can't have empathy with the family and want, instead, to point fingers and berate them. They've lost their two year old son FFS. Like they aren't going to relieve the entire decision making process and regret it for the rest of their lives.