Two Days in London

[PrincessLeppard]

It was neglected for a long time, so it's very overgrown and creepy. Like out of a gothic horror novel.

I've always liked weird stuff, though.

 

[Icetigger]

What’s so special about the cemetery, @PrincessLeppard ? I have never heard anyone recommending a trip to cemetery, so I am curious.

Have you not heard of Pere lachaise in Paris- also a very famous cemetery lots of people visit?

Vienna has a very famous cemetery in which A lot of famous composers are buried, and also Falco who recorded Rock me Amadeus, and yet ironically not the actual Amadeus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Central_Cemetery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Père_Lachaise_Cemetery

I LOVE a good cemetery.

 

[hanca]

Have you not heard of Pere lachaise in Paris- also a very famous cemetery lots of people visit?

Vienna has a very famous cemetery in which A lot of famous composers are buried, and also Falco who recorded Rock me Amadeus, and yet ironically not the actual Amadeus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Central_Cemetery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Père_Lachaise_Cemetery

I LOVE a good cemetery.

No, I haven’t heard of Pere Lachaise. If I have, I probably wouldn’t be asking why people would want to visit a cemetery. Probably a stupid question to ask, but what exactly do you enjoy about seeing a row after row of graves? (That’s a serious question, I am not trying to make fun out of you, I just don’t understand).

 

[Icetigger]

No, I haven’t heard of Pere Lachaise. If I have, I probably wouldn’t be asking why people would want to visit a cemetery. Probably a stupid question to ask, but what exactly do you enjoy about seeing a row after row of graves? (That’s a serious question, I am not trying to make fun out of you, I just don’t understand).

Well, graves are design objects and tell you lot about the time they were made; and the inscriptions can be interesting. Highgate Cemetery, for example, also has incredibly interesting tomb architecture. Also, visiting a city and its graveyards and seeing who is buried there actually gives you a sense of what that city was like in the past and actually a sense of what it was like to be living in the city during the past. It's like with plaques in London that tell you where people lived- like in Soho where you can see aplaque to William Blake, one to Polidori, one to Shelley, and also know that William Beckford lived in Soho Square- four important Gothic related writers from the same time period within about 200 metres of each other: a graveyard is a historical record like any other. Plus if you partake in any level of cult of personality- a graveyard like Pere Lachaise where Piaf, Wilde, Bizet, Chopin, Jim Morrison and more famous Parisians are buried is interesting.

 

[MsZem]

Pere Lachaise is indeed famous and scenic - and it's pretty close to Belleville, which has cool street art and a nice park. That said, I think that while cemeteries can be interesting to visit and are often quieter than other attractions, there's only so much appeal in seeing graves of famous people.

 

[Lara]

I hadn’t really understood myself till I went to the Bronte parsonage in Haworth, but it really is easy to get immersed in an old graveyard just reading the epitaphs. For those who’ve read Anne of the Island, I can see now why the cemetery by her boarding house was an appealing spot to visit.

 

[Vagabond]

https://highgatecemetery.org/visit

Highgate Cemetery has two parts: the East and West Cemeteries. You do not need to go on a guided tour to visit the East Cemetery, which is where Karl Marx and George Eliot, among others, are buried.

Highgate and nearby Hampstead are very interesting places to visit, but I would never, ever recommend that a first-time visitor go there if she had only two free days in town unless she was passionate about someone associated with either one of these areas, such as Keats or Freud.

 

[oleada]

I really appreciate all the wonderful advice given in this thread!!!

As a londoner, i advise splitting your days in to one where you explore from kensington back to Mayfair and one where you explore from tower hill back to mayfair if you like walking a lot.

I would for example get the underground to the Tower of London (as early a possible, and pre-book if you can), see and visit, then cross over to the other side, walk back along the river past city hall and under London Bridge (borough market is here), you will then continue along the river past the Globe (worth checking out if you like Shakespeare) and Tate Modern (there's a Picasso exhibition on at the moment, plus the building and some of the art is a sight in itself), you can then cross back over the river to see St Pauls (really very much The British National monument), then walk along Ludgate hill and Fleet Street until you get to the Strand (there is a gallery here called the Courtauld at Somerset House which is good for London for impressionist but probably redundant if you going to go to Paris), if you want to go shopping then go through Covent Garden, through Soho and then Mayfair, or alternatively walk to trafalgar square, where the National and Portrait Galleries are, then back to Mayfair.

You are not going to get a good visit in to all of the above, but research and take your pick plus get an oyster card so that you can take as much public transport as you want. The most boring part of this walk would be from St Pauls to Covent garden- so if pressed just grab a number 15 bus and it should take you directly to the National galleryish.

The other day you can get a tube to High Street Kensington, walk to Kensington Palace ( I would not recommend anything beyond passing by, in comparison to the other places you can visit, unless you specifically want to see the current Diana clothing exhibition) walk to the Albert hall/the Albert Memorial walk down Exhibition Road to the V and A (where also the Natural History and Science museums are too), see the Kahlo exhibition (pre-book, and also check out what other exhibitions are on), but also the British galleries and the recently refurbished renaissance galleries are great too (I also love the ceramics on the top floor, but that's a bit of an esoteric choice), the restaurant there is also good for an informal lunch plus there's the Morris room to eat in, you can then walk back past the Brompton Oratory, Harrods, and Harvey Nichols, then to Hyde Park Corner, back past Buckingham Palace (the state rooms can sometimes can be visited- from July 21st this year; there is also the queens gallery which runs special exhibitions and also shows other artefacts open most of the year), through St James Park to Westminster- houses of Parliament and Westminster Abbey, then walk back to Mayfair along Whitehall to trafalgar square, so will take you past the entrance to Downing Street (not much to see here)

Again, you are not going to be able to do everything properly, but research and take your pick.

If you don't want to do the tourist walk from Kensington to the V and A, start off at South Kensington tube.

The National Gallery and the British Museum are very different- one's Western European paintings from before 1900, the other is a World resource of cultural artefacts of historic and ancient civilisations with some Western European design from the medieval age onwards thrown in. If you want to do the British Museum, I'd add it to the first day, except end your walk at St Pauls, and get the tube to Russell Square, then you can walk back through Soho to Mayfair. I think the V and A and the National gallery and National portrait gallery are easier to visit and get a satisfactory experience.

Also, maybe do some research on both Westminster Abbey and St Pauls. They are churches but also very much National monuments. Westminster Abbey I would also recommend pre-booking if you can and getting there early if you want to see it. If so, I would visit first thing on the second day, you can then get the underground to the V and A, walk back past the Brompton Oratory, Harrods, and Harvey Nichols, then to Hyde Park Corner, back past Buckingham Palace, then back up through Green Park to Piccadilly (where you have the Royal Academy- currently the Summer exhibition (not worth visiting) and also Fortnum and Masons), and back to Mayfair.

You should get to make at least four/five decent visits to tourist hot spots (like the Tower/St Pauls/National Gallery/The V and A), and you'll a nod/a sighting of a lot of others. St Pauls has a great view from the top (costs to get up there). Tate Modern now has an extension with a viewing platform but it's not that high (and the lifts are annoying) but it's free and you'll get some idea of the gallery. There's also the London Eye, though it's not on either of these routes. It is however not far from Westminster Abbey.

Most museums and most galleries free except for special exhibitions. Palaces, palace galleries, the tower and the two big churches cost........

I'd use something like How far did I run to plot the routes. Both walks are five miles, but there's a lot to see on the way.


Things I don't think are worth doing-----

Madame Tussauds

Enjoy your trip.

Thank you so much. This is actually similar to what I have planned. I was thinking of going to the Tower of London first thing the first day we're there, then walking back along that route and seeing the sights, and then the V&A museum Frida exhibit if I have time.

Second day I was planning to do Kensington, but now I'm thinking I'll do Westminster Abbey instead, walk around Kensington area and then go to the National Gallery as it's on a Friday and open late.

 

[Icetigger]

I really appreciate all the wonderful advice given in this thread!!!




Thank you so much. This is actually similar to what I have planned. I was thinking of going to the Tower of London first thing the first day we're there, then walking back along that route and seeing the sights, and then the V&A museum Frida exhibit if I have time.

Second day I was planning to do Kensington, but now I'm thinking I'll do Westminster Abbey instead, walk around Kensington area and then go to the National Gallery as it's on a Friday and open late.

Have fun! Two more things to recommend.

The Wallace Collection is a stones throw away from Mayfair. If you like Rococo art it's the place to go. (it's free).
Also (as you share an interest in both Frida Kahlo and figure skating, you might also share this interest) there's a lot of great perfumery shops around Mayfair. You've got Burlington arcade and Fortnums to the south, and Selfridges to the North and Liberty (a nice shop to visit) to the East, and Fenwicks dead centre, if that's something you are into....... Neither are obviously major tourist fair, but if they are an interest and you are passing....... Anything else you'd like to know feel free to Pm.

 

[Deleted member 221]

From an ex-New Yorker to a New Yorker, I can almost guarantee that you will NOT find London chaotic, crowded, or hot -- even on the tube, and even in our current "heat wave." I lived 50 yards from Oxford Street and found it quaint (and clean ).

The museums are almost all free. If there's anything you want to see, just go see it! If you go into the British Museum for five minutes to see the Rosetta Stone, you're not out any £. I have gone to the British Museum at least 10x (used to live down the street) and never had to wait in line for more than a few minutes. The line is usually for a bag inspection, so see if you can get by without a purse if you normally carry one.

I haven't been to the Churchill War Rooms, but the last few houseguests I've had have confirmed the crowds. If you want to go, book in advance for timed tickets, or prepare to queue for 90 minutes.

Re: food, I second the recommendation for Dishoom. Try to go in between lunch and dinner (either very late lunch or very early dinner) to avoid the queues, which can be 60-90 minutes on a good day. (Queuing is a national sport here!) Dishoom is Iranian café style and different from the usual Indian you get in the US, even in New York. Masala Zone is also nice, with more typical Indian food.

I would also recommend going to a Greek or Cypriot place, or going to anywhere that has halloumi, which is a delicious cheese that I have never seen in the US. (Maybe it's becoming more popular now?) Plus afternoon tea, of course: for casual, try Charlotte Street Hotel; for a little fancier, I like Amba Hotel.

Wagamama would not be my first choice , but it's not bad. Do NOT - whatever you do - eat at Wahaca. The food is inedible. Mexican food in London is unspeakably bad and often contains mayonnaise in some form (on tacos, in guacamole....). The salsa usually tastes like ketchup, and the vegetables are overcooked. The food in London is generally much, much better than the reputation of the food in London -- but Mexican is the exception. It's even worse than you can imagine.

If you get a craving for pizza, check out Franco Manca or Pizza Pilgrims. The majority of the patrons will be speaking Italian.

Re: Paris, I agree that the Musee D'Orsay is more manageable than the Louvre, which is truly overwhelming in all respects -- size, crowds, etc. That said, the Louvre has some spectacular art, so make the trade-off. Unlike the museums in London, it's not free, though! I agree with Erin that Sainte Chappelle is incredibly beautiful.

I wanted to jump off the Eiffel Tower. Two hours in line, dealing with pushy tourists trying to cut the line (I can and did curse people out in four languages), and listening to stupid Americans moaning that their dinner reservation was lost only to find out that they made their dinner reservation at the "Eiffel Tower Las Vegas." (At this point, I switched from wanting to jump off to wanting to push this stupid lady off.) The views are great, but no how, no way, never again, especially in the heat. If you must go, get a reserved-time ticket.

Paris is the perfect place to find a sidewalk café, eat all of the bread and cheese you can, drink all of the wine you can, and try not to suffocate from the cigarette smoke that is everywhere around you. If the smoke won't kill you, the BO on the metro definitely will. Worst smelling public transit outside of Philadelphia, if you ask me. Despite this, I do love Paris (but I love the rest of France a lot more).

 

[Vagabond]

@oleada Since it looks like you're going to be getting your Paris advice here, I should mention that whereas almost everything in the Louvre is fascinating in one way or another, there is a lot of chaff to go with the wheat at the Musée d'Orsay. The Impressionists at least get their own floor as well as the Orangerie, which now seems to be accessible on the same ticket. The works of other great nineteenth century French artists such as Corot, Delacroix, Courbet, etc., are mingled in with those of Academic artists. If you do go and do like Impressionism, I would suggest starting in the Impressionist Gallery and then making sure to concentrate on those other artists that interest you.

I have mentioned safety issues in previous Parisian threads, but the subject does need to be stressed. Beware of pickpockets and purse snatchers, who are professionals and especially active at the main museums (Louvre, Orsay, Pompidou) and on the Métro. I would also use extra caution if going out at night anywhere near the Place Pigalle or Montmartre.

 

[MsZem]

Paris is the perfect place to find a sidewalk café, eat all of the bread and cheese you can, drink all of the wine you can, and try not to suffocate from the cigarette smoke that is everywhere around you. If the smoke won't kill you, the BO on the metro definitely will. Worst smelling public transit outside of Philadelphia, if you ask me. Despite this, I do love Paris (but I love the rest of France a lot more).

I'd rather buy my goodies and take them to a nice park... and maybe I'm less sensitive to smell or perhaps l just sat next to the right people, but I didn't find the metro any worse (or better) smelling than many other public transport systems. While some of the lines are old, it's still nicer (and more efficient, I gather) than the NYC subway.

Though if I were only in town for a short visit, I'd try to walk when possible.

 

[screech]

Regarding the Parisian pickpockets, they try to get money from you other ways too. This didn't happen to me, but one of my friends knew someone who was walking through Montmartre and felt something on her arm. A person had put one of their bracelets on her arm, wanting her to buy it. As she refused, they wouldn't take it off until she paid, threatening to accuse her of stealing unless she paid for it.

My advice is despite all of this, don't be paranoid! Just be smart and aware.

 

[Japanfan]

I'd rather buy my goodies and take them to a nice park... and maybe I'm less sensitive to smell or perhaps l just sat next to the right people, but I didn't find the metro any worse (or better) smelling than many other public transport systems. While some of the lines are old, it's still nicer (and more efficient, I gather) than the NYC subway.

I take public transit (Skytrain) occasionally for several things I have to do because it is just easier than driving.

The last time I took it was about one week ago and I was overwhelmed by the bad smell.

Public transit must smell bad pretty much all the time. But when I was younger and took it regularly, I never noticed.

 

[manhn]

I didn't find Paris' subway particularly smelly (I find San Francisco the worst in that regard). But I will never get used to people being able to open the doors before the trains are fully stopped.

 

[Japanfan]

I didn't find Paris' subway particularly smelly (I find San Francisco the worst in that regard).

You can never cram a whole bunch of people together in an airless space without it smelling, I don't think.

But we learn to block it out. The human mind is an amazing and creative thing.

I noticed the smell on transit it because I don't usually take it - so it remains an out-of-the-ordinary experience for me and my mind my has not developed a resistance to its unpleasant aspect.

And yes, people endure far worse things than riding the subway/train at rush hour.

 

[El Rey]

I was in London for my second time last week. I went to the Tower of London and didn’t find it too crowded. I visited on a Wednesday morning around 11 and just bought tickets there. No queue to get in. The Crown Jewels were the most crowded part, but there really wasn’t any wait to get in to see them either. Probably because they move you along on a conveyor belt during that portion so doesn’t allow time to linger (there is a little ramp you can go on and view them a little longer, although from a littler further away). No pcitures allowed of the jewels either. Three hours was plenty of time to see everything and not feel rushed.

Some of the Tube stations can get very crowded at peak times (but not as bad as crowds I’ve seen in Asia!). At one station I had to wait for 3 trains before I could cram myself in. But the trains came much more often than in NYC. Probably every 3-5 minutes (at least that was my experience, especially on the Central lines). Crowds were not stinky and wasn’t particularly hot (same can’t be said of my trips in NYC subways). Scariest or most uncomfortable thing was how far down you would sometimes have to go to reach a platform! That could really set off someone’s claustrophobia!!! Also agree with info from others to get the Oyster card. I wasn’t staying in central London and ticket agent recommended I put £27 on it for the 3 days i was there, and the amount was almost spot on for all my trips during that time (ended up with a few extra cents).

As mentioned, most of the museums are free. Pop in to use the toilet and see a few paintings while you’re at it. This is how I got to see the Rosetta Stone!

Pick up a snack (like a champagne pop) at Fortnum and Mason and take a stroll through the park on your way to Buckingham Palace! Most of my trips consists of popping in for food and drink somewhere haha. Take a light jacket or sweater. The first time I was there was at beginning of August and still needed a jacket at certain times of day. But I also live in Houston, so my body probably can’t tolerate even a little chill! You’re gonna love London. It reminds me of NYC (but better...I’m not a New Yorker but have probably been more than 20 times). Have Fun!

 

[Rob]

Take a light jacket or sweater. The first time I was there was at beginning of August and still needed a jacket at certain times of day. But I also live in Houston, so my body probably can’t tolerate even a little chill!

When I was there, the news said it was a "sweltering" 75F/24C but I found it balmy during the day and chilly at night. But its 97F/36C here.

 

[Deleted member 221]

When I was there, the news said it was a "sweltering" 75F/24C but I found it balmy during the day and chilly at night. But its 97F/36C here.

Newspaper headline (actual): "BRITAIN HOTTER THAN AFRICA." Reality: people walking around in sweaters (and Spaniards and Italians in puffy coats) in the evening.

You nearly always need a sweater at night, given that night time lows are typically mid-50s to low-60s (F) even in peak summer.

London weather in summer is gorgeous: daylight that lasts forever, warm days, cool nights.... if only all months were like June or July!

 

[Vagabond]

It is better to read the weather reports than scoff at them.

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/London+United+Kingdom+UKXX0085:1:UK

The forecast is for highs in the eighties from the day after tomorrow right through oleada's visit.

Central London is adjacent to a substantial river and someways in from the North Sea, so it can be quite sticky when it's hot. And if buildings do have air conditioning, they are usually set to something higher than sixty-eight degrees.

@oleada, if Plan "A" doesn't work out for you, there are worse things to do than sitting somewhere in Bankside or Butler's Wharf and having some Pimm's.

 

[oleada]

I was looking at the London weather just now and it looks downright pleasant compared to here.

Louis, I appreciate the food advice, because as a New Yorker, I feel I'm spoiled and I've heard bad things about the food in London. I'll keep those places in mind.

Dumb question, I typically carry reusable water bottle with me; would this be a problem at museums/castles and would cafes give me trouble refilling it?

Every person I know who's done the top of the Eiffel Tower has told me not to do it so I definitely will not.

 

[manhn]

The best time to see the Eiffel Tower is at night with the lights on. It is romantic and free.

 

[Vagabond]

Dumb question, I typically carry reusable water bottle with me; would this be a problem at museums/castles and would cafes give me trouble refilling it?

Probably not, but there's always a first time for everything.

Every person I know who's done the top of the Eiffel Tower has told me not to do it so I definitely will not.

The views from the first and second platforms are much better than from the top, but if you want a good elevated view of Paris, try going to the top floor of one of the department stores (BHV, Samaritaine, Printemps Haussmann, Galeries Lafayeete) or Museums (Institut du Monde Arabe, Pompidou Center) or the top of one of the Towers on Notre Dame instead.

 

[MsZem]

Every person I know who's done the top of the Eiffel Tower has told me not to do it so I definitely will not.

You can enjoy perfectly nice views from the Sacre Coeur and (I'm told) Tour Montparnasse.

 

[Japanfan]

I would also recommend going to a Greek or Cypriot place, or going to anywhere that has halloumi, which is a delicious cheese that I have never seen in the US.

I've had halloumi at a Middle Eastern restaurant here in Vancouver, BC. So, I would think it is probably available in the US as well.

 

[clairecloutier]

Yes, not to derail the thread, but it is available in grocery stores in the Boston area, although not maybe at every single store you might go to. It would be in the specialty cheese section. Halloumi, yum.

 

[screech]

You can enjoy perfectly nice views from the Sacre Coeur and (I'm told) Tour Montparnasse.

I really enjoyed the views from Sacre Couer. To me, the best part of the Eiffel Tower was relaxing on the lawn by the tower (I think it's called the Champ de Mars), with a sandwich.

As for London weather, when I went 5 years ago, it was in the low to mid 20s (Celsius), but bright and sunny both days I was there. I actually got a little bit red from the sun, and I don't tan or burn easily. (meanwhile, I'd been debating whether to bring an umbrella on my trip. Glad I didn't!)

 

[Deleted member 221]

I was looking at the London weather just now and it looks downright pleasant compared to here.

It is AMAZING right now. Highs in the low 80s, lows around 58-60F, 17 hours of daylight. People here think it's hot or humid, but after 10 years in New York / 35 on the east coast USA, I can't say I've ever felt hot here. And definitely never muggy. It's all about what your baseline is.

I will echo the comment about air conditioning, though -- do not expect American levels of air conditioning. 75 or even 78 F is not uncommon in museums. You may well feel stuffy indoors. Layers are critical.

Louis, I appreciate the food advice, because as a New Yorker, I feel I'm spoiled and I've heard bad things about the food in London.

The reputation that London has bad food is at least 10+ years out of date. I would even consider it a "foodie" city now, and it's a vegetarian's paradise. The food is not as consistently good as New York, but it's nothing like the reputation.

Dumb question, I typically carry reusable water bottle with me; would this be a problem at museums/castles and would cafes give me trouble refilling it?

No to it being a problem. Especially in this "dangerous heat" , you will hear announcements to carry water with you at all times.

As to refilling it, drinking fountains are uncommon here. You don't see them outside every restroom the way you do in the US, and you can't even find them in many airports. Although Europe in general is more environmentally friendly, bottled water is an exception. It makes me sad to see the amount of bottled water consumed here -- at restaurants, in public places, etc. because there are no drinking fountains.

 

[Icetigger]

The reputation that London has bad food is at least 10+ years out of date. I would even consider it a "foodie" city now, and it's a vegetarian's paradise. The food is not as consistently good as New York, but it's nothing like the reputation.

London is very foodie now- lots of quirky hipsters type places. However, there are a lot of tourist traps- avoid any scottish themed steak restaurant or anything kitsch in decoration in the West End- those are the tourist traps.

Pret has a re-usable water bottle initiative. The bottle costs £20 though. However, they in general are pushing a less waste strategy, so I think most likely to be fine with you filling up a bottle of your own. The places where the filtered water is available as a fountain are listed (and in London they are pretty much all along the routes you will be taking)

https://www.pret.co.uk/en-gb/pret-x-chillys

Also, Cafe Nero generally has filtered tap water in jugs on the condiments stand.

 

[moebius]

Yes, not to derail the thread, but it is available in grocery stores in the Boston area, although not maybe at every single store you might go to. It would be in the specialty cheese section. Halloumi, yum.

Trader Joe's sells it, but only seasonally. I don't see it now, but I saw it about 2-3 months ago.