MAXSwagg
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Blablabla...
Well, what are your thoughts, Banana?
Blablabla...
You are one of the least impartial when you make your comment but the first one to cry wolf and overgeneralizing. I got your point about the US judge and I haven’t checked her mark. You mght be right, you might be wrong... but in your outcry you seem to be such a victim in all of this cheating from everywhere..Well, what are your thoughts, Banana?
So as long as you don’t host the olympics, you are free to cheat?
You are one of the least impartial when you make your comment but the first one to cry wolf and overgeneralizing. I got your point about the US judge and I haven’t checked her mark. You mght be right, you might be wrong... but in your outcry you seem to be such a victim in all of this cheating from everywhere..
https://www.isu.org/communications/17359-case-2018-02-isu-vs-huang/fileIf the Chinese judge in pairs was suspended for 1) a history of suspect marking, and 2) suspect marking during the Games, Lorrie Parker should be suspended as well because she is also guilty of 1 and 2, and as one can see from the protocols, her marks are even more egregious.
The Alleged Offender has given for the Chinese couple Sui/Han a total of 21 GOE points in the Short Program. He scored each of the 7 elements with a GOE of +3, which none of his fellow judges did. He awarded the second highest scores in GOE to the second Chinese couple Yu / Zhang and the third highest to the Russian couple. None of the other judges gave the second highest GOE score to Yu/ Zhang. In contrast, the Alleged Offender scored the total GOE for the elements performed by the couple Savchenko / Massot (Germany) at 10 points, which is the lowest score compared to all the judges. He awarded the highest GOE of all competing pairs to the two Chinese pairs and the lowest GOE to the Canadian Pair.
You are one of the least impartial when you make your comment but the first oneWell, what are your thoughts, Banana?
Least impartial? I'm not a judge, Banana. And if you haven't even checked the marks of any of the judges, why are you even giving your one cent thoughts?
I don't think China is being singled out. They just did it stupidly.
Figure skating judging is supposed to be subjective so cheating / bias is always defendable to a certain degree. And being outside the corridor isn't always wrong (Joe Inman), you just have to defend your position. It isn't until they do blatant things to the extent that they can't justify that they get caught.
ITA. I didn't think I'd enjoy reading these as much as I did!The full decisions are really interesting, especially the protocols with the suspicious judging highlighted.
I have to say, though, that I'm not completely convinced by the ISU arguments in both decisions that part of the case is proven by these judges' total scores being so remarkably out of line with the other judges' total scores. Obviously the out of line totals don't get to be out of line without some questionable marks being awarded, but IMO it's much more telling to look at the differences in marks on each element. That is the stronger part of the case for bias, and it could also be the more useful information for the ISU, if judges are consistently manipulating GOEs on particular elements or on certain PCS criteria. (Of course that would also require the ISU to do some meaningful retraining and/or reworking of how judges are instructed to arrive at those scores, but, hey, I can dream )
I'm also kind of uneasy with the "national bias" argument. Yes, the judges did give unreasonable scores for skaters from their own country, but....why not just call it "bias" and be done with it? There can be unreasonable bias toward skaters from the same country, and there can be unreasonable bias toward skaters from a different country. Maybe the ISU only wants to punish judges who favor their "own" skaters, but IMO they should be investigating judges whose marks are way out of line with regards to any skater, regardless of which country the judges or the skaters are from.
I'm also kind of uneasy with the "national bias" argument. Yes, the judges did give unreasonable scores for skaters from their own country, but....why not just call it "bias" and be done with it? There can be unreasonable bias toward skaters from the same country, and there can be unreasonable bias toward skaters from a different country. Maybe the ISU only wants to punish judges who favor their "own" skaters, but IMO they should be investigating judges whose marks are way out of line with regards to any skater, regardless of which country the judges or the skaters are from.
You are one of the least impartial when you make your comment but the first one
My comment was on your comments in general, and I have “checked” a lot so I feel more than free to give my “one cent thoughts”. You have just proved my point.
I do have checked the marks, not just analysing which judge was who. In the men’s event, you cannot get more blatant bias than that. One cannot even justify all of these +3. So evisent that something had to be done.
My point is that instead of being satisfied that for once national bias is sanctionned, that it is one step in the right direction, that a warning has been sent to the other judges, you go crybaby about other judges and put on the victim hat that NA judges cheat also. You sound like my 7 yo who tries to put the blame on others instead of taking her own responsabilities. That is a normal reaction at that age, but I guess you are older technically on official paper, aren’t you?
Well, that’s what you implied, otherwise I am not sure what relevance the fact that they are going to host olympics has to do with the fact that they have been singled out.Knock it off. That is not what I said at all.
Interesting how all those who were feeling so strong against Russia’s doping cheating are not feeling as strong about western judges cheating.
I think it is much worse if the judges cheat than if the competitors try to cheat.Well, I sort of get that most people consider the judging cheating to be an actual facet of the sport?
Ice dance fans certainly do.
Placing the double Olympic Champion 5th in the free skate is not blatant? In what world?! Also, she has a history. She did the same thing at 2017 Four Continents.
I thought the Canadian ice dance judge (and federation president), Leanna Caron, should have been suspended immediately after the original dance, placing Virtue and Moir first and Weave and Poje second. In what universe is that even remotely reasonable, and what explanation exists other than national bias? This looks way worse, on so many levels, than anything China, Sharon Rogers, or Lorrie Parker did.
I thought the Canadian ice dance judge (and federation president), Leanna Caron, should have been suspended immediately after the original dance, placing Virtue and Moir first and Weave and Poje second. In what universe is that even remotely reasonable, and what explanation exists other than national bias? This looks way worse, on so many levels, than anything China, Sharon Rogers, or Lorrie Parker did.
I do think there are unique circumstances with China's suspension: the judge twice marked up his own skaters while marking down their closest competitors, in close succession, in a really obvious way. In terms of cheating, this is L4. But why is the standard this high? Let's suspend the L3 cheaters like Leanna Caron (who should be excluded on account of her role as Skate Canada president, but Skate Canada lobbied against that change), too.
Reading the full decisions was interesting. It's interesting that the 'bias' was determined by reference to what the other judges awarded - not by any separate analysis of what was actually skated.
I mean, of course that's how it's going to occur, but it does show that once a team or skater starts generating momentum with GOE & PCS etc that the other judges have to move in line and start judging with the pack.
I agree with several posters in this thread that Chen is the most egregious example and I don't question why she was suspended at all. Huang is a different case and I have a couple of theories of why Huang might have been suspended when Caron/Rogers/Parker haven't been yet. One would be that if Huang's judging had been in isolation, it might have been let go, but combined with Chen's, the ISU wanted to send a strong message to China that this kind of thing won't be tolerated. The other theory is that after Huang was already given a warning after the GPF, he was basically at a point where there was zero tolerance. That said, some of the other judges mentioned in this thread should be at that point now.
Least impartial? I'm not a judge, Banana. And if you haven't even checked the marks of any of the judges, why are you even giving your one cent thoughts?