TJ Nyman accused of rape (Dalilah Sappenfield accused of supporting him)

[canbelto]

The poster took issue with how the information was shared but also wrote "Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more. "

I mean, is that throwing the whole thing out? Anyways, I'm outta here.

"Not ready to judge" while making demeaning comments about Emma Tang's language, her choice of social media platform (IG stories), and calling her "girl."

 

[muffinplus]

But "I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly" invites comments on the post, does it not?

It doesn't invite insults or posts telling the person they are dismissive of rape etc IMO. I really don't know what's unclear about what bothered me.

Is this really what you all want to argue about on this thread? I'm not here to tell you what to talk about, I am just amazed that this is your choice when there are so many others available here.

??? I mean there are people arguing about all sorts of things, but I'm not there to tell people what they should or shouldn't spend time on either. Anyways, I am really going to try not responding , because I've had to respond to about 5 posts to explain, and it's just not getting anywhere... The thread is getting off track.

 

[once_upon]

as per this twitter user, it gets worse. Every story coming out of Broadmoor disgusts me more and more. These athletes need our support and solidarity.

Dalilah and TJ (and even more people it sounds like) belong in prison.

the USFSA cannot continue to ignore this.

EDIT: here is the contents of the tweet for people who may not be able to access twitter

tw// sexual assault, abuse shared with permission from a skater at broadmoor:
-tj coerced multiple of his underage partners into having sex with him
-dalilah has had sexual relationships with multiple athletes
-tj and his friends tried to have sex with other minors as well

This is much more detail than what I overheard as being about a welcome to boardmoor environment. I was sickened by the comments ar the time and it colored by view of at least one or two skaters. But I also didn't know if it was skating parents gossiping and perhaps their kids not getting enough coaching time.
But I've always said Dalilah encouraged that type of environment. From this post it sounds she is the Madam of the sex club

 

[Prancer]

It doesn't invite insults or posts telling the person they are dismissive of rape etc IMO. I really don't know what's unclear about what bothered me.

I got your point; as you said, you've made it many times. Others have made their counterpoints many times, too.

??? I mean there are people arguing about all sorts of things, but I'm not there to tell people what they should or shouldn't spend time on either. Anyways, I am really going to try not responding , because I've had to respond to about 5 posts to explain, and it's just not getting anywhere... The thread is getting off track.

I was not addressing my comment to you specifically; it was a general comment directed at everyone who is participating in this particular conversation. As you say, it's not getting anywhere and the thread is getting off track.

 

[MacMadame]

Um. Bullying a poster for using "girl" is ridiculous. Some people need to get off their high horses. I don't think that person was defending rape.

This poster has a history. I absolutely think they were trying to diminish the accusations. Not to mention, the only way to interpret another way is to twist yourself into a pretzel of false equivalency and speculation.

 

[VGThuy]

There has been no bullying in this thread whatsoever. Maybe heavy criticism, but not bullying because the critiques are based on direct quotes given by a particular poster.
Also, I get wanting to defend or give another explanation for use of a certain diminutive, but some defenders have created a defense out of thin air, and it wasn’t one offered by the original poster. In fact the original poster didn’t even say whether he/she felt “bullied”. I also felt it was ironic because when someone else pointed out there was no bullying, the posters who said there was bullying turned around and made personal and OFF-TOPIC insults to that poster...not even based on what he said.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

So back to Dalilah.

USFSA did not publicly rebuke her for her behaviour at Nationals and should have. There are times and places to hold private conversations and that was not one of them. As someone stated earlier, she was clearly creating a hostile environment for victims by her behavior.

The attitude displayed everywhere after the information on Coughlin came out was unacceptable. Let's hope this one results in a lot more house cleaning. It's only going to keep getting worse if they continue to cover up and deny.

 

[nlloyd]

Getting back to the substance of the accusations against Sappenfield and TJ Nyman: I really hope Christine Brennan gets onto this. It seems that journalists are the best hope of investigating and drawing attention to issues of sexual assault and abuse in sport (as happened with gymnastics). If it takes SafeSport a while to look into it, and the police are not investigating, we will have to rely on the press.

 

[nlloyd]

So back to Dalilah.

USFSA did not publicly rebuke her for her behaviour at Nationals and should have. There are times and places to hold private conversations and that was not one of them. As someone stated earlier, she was clearly creating a hostile environment for victims by her behavior.

The attitude displayed everywhere after the information on Coughlin came out was unacceptable. Let's hope this one results in a lot more house cleaning. It's only going to keep getting worse if they continue to cover up and deny.

I agree mpal2. At the time, many on this forum questioned how Sappenfield could be viewed as an adult whom students at the rink would trust with issues of sexual pressure or abuse, if she herself was supporting Coughlin so overtly and villlifying his victims and those who supported him.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Clearly she couldn't be a responsible reporter if all the Twitter stuff is true.

 

[chameleonster]

https://twitter.com/gwendalsflow/status/1315351606230089728?s=21

When police and SafeSport investigations take too long or are ineffective, and the one journalist who actively pursues these stories doesn't protect your confidentiality, victims and their supporters are left with little recourse. Are anonymous accusations on social media the optimal way for these things to come out? Absolutely not. However it's not a failure of the victims and their supporters themselves, but of the system that fails to protect them. If you're not ready to deal with the fallout of going public after already dealing with the trauma of abuse and being bullied into silence, and no one will take your side and pursue justice, what else are you to do to find some way for abusers to be held accountable?

 

[Willin]

Hopefully someone bigger than Brennan or the skating community picks up on this. There are many great reporters who might care and will protect anonymity. But would they do a story about skating? Maybe the Denver Post or CS's local paper.

 

[overedge]

There is a mention on Reddit that seems to suggest USFS doesn't have the power to suspend or reprimand alleged offenders. Is this true? Do the sport federations have to wait until SafeSport does something to be able to take their own actions?

 

[nlloyd]

https://twitter.com/gwendalsflow/status/1315351606230089728?s=21

When police and SafeSport investigations take too long or are ineffective, and the one journalist who actively pursues these stories doesn't protect your confidentiality, victims and their supporters are left with little recourse. Are anonymous accusations on social media the optimal way for these things to come out? Absolutely not. However it's not a failure of the victims and their supporters themselves, but of the system that fails to protect them. If you're not ready to deal with the fallout of going public after already dealing with the trauma of abuse and being bullied into silence, and no one will take your side and pursue justice, what else are you to do to find some way for abusers to be held accountable?

I'm very sorry to hear about the possibility that Christine Brennan has named her sources against their will. I wonder how journalists can draw attention to this case without naming sources, though. On the one hand, journalists routinely protect their sources. On the other, in this case, would a journalist who refused to name her sources, not risk litigation for libel? I guess for victims who wish not to go public (which is entirely understandable in my opinion), the fact that their experiences have been made public on social media is good enough. Potential future victims have been warned.

 

[meggonzo]

https://twitter.com/gwendalsflow/status/1315351606230089728?s=21

When police and SafeSport investigations take too long or are ineffective, and the one journalist who actively pursues these stories doesn't protect your confidentiality, victims and their supporters are left with little recourse. Are anonymous accusations on social media the optimal way for these things to come out? Absolutely not. However it's not a failure of the victims and their supporters themselves, but of the system that fails to protect them. If you're not ready to deal with the fallout of going public after already dealing with the trauma of abuse and being bullied into silence, and no one will take your side and pursue justice, what else are you to do to find some way for abusers to be held accountable?

Ugh, I take back my earlier comments defending Christine.

 

[okokok777]

There is a mention on Reddit that seems to suggest USFS doesn't have the power to suspend or reprimand alleged offenders. Is this true? Do the sport federations have to wait until SafeSport does something to be able to take their own actions?

Once SafeSport takes over a case, the NGB is unable to reprimand that party for allegations that are being investigated by the Center*. Since the Center has exclusive jurisdiction over allegations of sexual misconduct, an NGB cannot suspend or ban some for it - only SafeSport can. In cases on non-sexual misconduct, it's up to the Center to decide if they have jurisdiction or not. Generally speaking, cases on non-sexual misconduct is handled by the NGB (a common notable exception is when there are criminal charges).

*However, this does not stop the NGB from being able to reprimand a SafeSport respondent for other issues. So, let's say a covered individual is being investigated by SafeSport for sexually abusing a former athlete. During their investigation, they get into a physical fight with a co-worker. The fight is reported to SafeSport, who decides that they don't have jurisdiction & pushes it back to the NGB. The NGB could decide to suspend them due to that fight if they consider it a violation of their code. However, they cannot give the person a suspension for the alleged sexual abuse, for example.

 

[overedge]

I'd like to hear Brennan's side of this. It's on the journalist to make sure that the potential interviewee understands what is and isn't "off the record", and that the interviewee is OK with whatever conditions are established. But I don't know what this IG poster means when they say that Brennan "texted and gaslighted our entire conversation".

 

[Ena Grins]

I think a complicating factor in maintaining confidentiality is that figure skating's such a small community that you can withhold names but even a few details can make it obvious to people in that community who you're talking about. That being said, it's totally possible Christine Brennan did give names to USFS, and IMO journalists should be ready to protect their sources in any way they can when reporting on these types of stories.

 

[tony]

Well, since there is at least one person messaging Emma saying that Brennan broke trust, I have to wonder if Modlin and Maurizi were informed either directly by Christine or via her reporting of the accusers in the Coughlin case. Remember, those two clowns were trying to reach one of the women who filed a complaint against John the day after his suicide.

Once SafeSport takes over a case, the NGB is unable to reprimand that party for allegations that are being investigated by the Center*. Since the Center has exclusive jurisdiction over allegations of sexual misconduct, an NGB cannot suspend or ban some for it - only SafeSport can. In cases on non-sexual misconduct, it's up to the Center to decide if they have jurisdiction or not. Generally speaking, cases on non-sexual misconduct is handled by the NGB (a common notable exception is when there are criminal charges).

*However, this does not stop the NGB from being able to reprimand a SafeSport respondent for other issues. So, let's say a covered individual is being investigated by SafeSport for sexually abusing a former athlete. During their investigation, they get into a physical fight with a co-worker. The fight is reported to SafeSport, who decides that they don't have jurisdiction & pushes it back to the NGB. The NGB could decide to suspend them due to that fight if they consider it a violation of their code. However, they cannot give the person a suspension for the alleged sexual abuse, for example.

This is actually all very fascinating. I get following a chain of command - but does the USFS and every other sports body have to abide by this automatically, or did they accept this agreement to work with SafeSport and then have to follow the procedure from that point?

 

[okokok777]

Well, since there is at least one person messaging Emma saying that Brennan broke trust, I have to wonder if Modlin and Maurizi were informed either directly by Christine or via her reporting of the accusers in the Coughlin case. Remember, those two clowns were trying to reach one of the women who filed a complaint against John the day after his suicide.



This is actually all very fascinating. I get following a chain of command - but does the USFS and every other sports body have to abide by this automatically, or did they accept this agreement to work with SafeSport and then have to follow the procedure from that point?

I'll definitely double-check when I have the chance but I believe this was included in the 2017 Safe Sport Authorization Act so it's automatic (of they would be breaking the law by not abiding).

 

[Kateri]

But I don't know what this IG poster means when they say that Brennan "texted and gaslighted our entire conversation".

It means that Brennan texted her, and insisted that their earlier conversation happened in a totally different way to what Emma remembers.

gaslighting = deliberately manipulating someone by contradicting their experience of reality, eg to make them doubt their own memory of events

 

[overedge]

It means that Brennan texted her, and insisted that their earlier conversation happened in a totally different way to what Emma remembers.

gaslighting = deliberately manipulating someone by contradicting their experience of reality, eg to make them doubt their own memory of events

I know what "gaslighting" is. It didn't make sense to me in this context, and I am still unclear what Brennan and the IG poster agreed to, if anything, about what would or wouldn't be off the record. Again, it's on the journalist to make sure that an interviewee understands what they're agreeing to, but a dispute over what was agreed to is not necessarily gaslighting IMO.

 

[Lacey]

I have been involved in skating for all of my life, about 70 years. I have had good and bad coaching for me and/or my 3 kids, mostly good if not great. I took from Don Laws as a kid but didn't deserve his wonderful expertise as I was truly not a great skater, and then saw Richard Callaghan operate at our rink later, ahem. So, the positive and the negative.

But I am absolutely sick about what I am reading about Delilah. I had already been suspicious over mostly videos and/or tv, but some live competitions, of her grasp over some skaters, some teams. Then I saw the hat thing when Coughlin died, that was enough to make me recede from thinking she was ok, that display was disgusting. Then she disappeared for a while, then reappeared, rinks might have been moving her. My heart sank this year when I saw that she was back on the scene. It's scary if she had a hold on some skaters for their seemingly, if correct, more personal than professional relationships.

There has to be a way to get pros off the ice, without control and away from the kids until charges are considered and decided. This is worse than the Gymnastics upheaval a few short years ago, and that went on for years. I know that I personally have no proof, but some stories seems to have credibility. And, if true, this needs to be stopped before it gets worse. I am very disappointed in USFS, and can't imagine their hands are tied here, they must have some power.

 

[Aerobicidal]

I also felt it was ironic because when someone else pointed out there was no bullying, the posters who said there was bullying turned around and made personal and OFF-TOPIC insults to that poster...not even based on what he said.

I'm not surprised that a certain poster managed to YET AGAIN misinterpret and take ridiculous and irrelevant offense to what I posted.

My only arguments were a) Taking issue with a specific poster on FSU isn't bullying and b) Overusing the word bullying in situations to which it doesn't apply trivializes actual bullying, like Sappenfield's.

These are both arguments that someone could try to refute, qualify, or otherwise address, but instead I get told that I need to grow up and that I felt differently when I was on the receiving end.

Re: an anonymous stranger telling me to grow up--I will give that comment exactly as much consideration as it deserves.

The other response makes absolutely no sense. I have never accused anyone of bullying me or attempting to bully me on FSU or in real life. But I don't even know if that's what the response is saying. What else have I been on the receiving end of? A phone call? A rare successful attempt to catch a frisbee? A sweaty hunk of a man?!?!?

Or maybe someone is confusing me with another poster again, which makes sense as there are many similar user names to mine here, such as Aerobicidal Lou and Aerobical.

Anyway, I'll be quiet now and just repeat that I hope authorities like the FBI are or will be taking up this investigation and that Sappenfield, Nyman, and any other offenders are arrested sooner than later.

 

[Orm Irian]

From this post it sounds she is the Madam of the sex club

No, if these allegations are even close to being accurate it sounds like she is a sexual predator who has created an environment in which her victims are also groomed to become sexual predators abusing others. Not, sadly, an unheard-of situation. It's even possible that she herself is not the first link in this chain - for this kind of damage to be this pervasive throughout the system, it's likely that it's been going on for some considerable time.

 

[Michelle]

If those Dalilah accusations are true, my god. USFS is going to be seeing a PR nightmare, and rightfully so. I don't understand how USFS can have these predators working for them and not know. What a complicit and stupid organization that has hurt girls and boys alike.

 

[Birdseye]

Yikes to all of this... not surprising... but yikes

 

[Frau Muller]

This is becoming sadder by the minute, on so many levels. Not just horrifying. I hope that the full truth comes out and that justice will be served.

 

[Judy]

So back to Dalilah.

USFSA did not publicly rebuke her for her behaviour at Nationals and should have. There are times and places to hold private conversations and that was not one of them. As someone stated earlier, she was clearly creating a hostile environment for victims by her behavior.

The attitude displayed everywhere after the information on Coughlin came out was unacceptable. Let's hope this one results in a lot more house cleaning. It's only going to keep getting worse if they continue to cover up and deny.

I don’t know all the people being accused but it’s overall a horrible situation. I agree that her actions at Nationals which I didn’t see was a disgrace. My understanding is she made her skaters wear the hats? I can understand that his suicide was devastating to his family, coaches and people who knew him but didn’t know the rapist. Likely horrifying for his victims as well in a very different way. To force kids to participate in this well shame on the people involved in this. For Emma to be harrassed by coaches, staff etc just **** off. These are young kids and people. Just horrifying.

 

[bethy135]

As I've stated before, we pulled our younger skater out of the sport due to the culture. Our child wanted to keep skating and we said no based on what we saw every day with our older skaters.

I have no stats to back this up but based on what we personally witnessed and experienced, for every worst case scenario instance of rape, there must be hundreds or thousands more instances of sexual harassment, emotional abuse, abuse of power, sexism, racism, intimidation, favoritism, and just creepy vibes from coaches and athletes - especially the successful ones who have leverage.

I used to think it was wonderful that the skating community involves people of all ages - for the mentoring opportunities and the fact it could be a family sport. Now I think the fact that more powerful and often older coaches and skaters' uniquely intimate one-on-one access to vulnerable children is way too risky.