TJ Nyman accused of rape (Dalilah Sappenfield accused of supporting him)

mpal2

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@Sylvia just posted a new thread that says Safe Sport is getting more funding independent of the sports governing bodies and they can now disband sports federations that fail to keep athletes safe.

ETA: It's in the Other Sports section of the board. Took me a second to find it.



ETA: It's not law yet. Hopefully this one sails through and becomes law ASAP.
 

hoptoad

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I completely get that it was an emotional period. I can only imagine the terror of having a loved one committing suicide. But there are many people who knew and liked John who never publicly acted as if they were victim-blaming or victim-shaming.

Plus, it's been 20 months. She could have apologized for those actions. She could have publicly said something like "I support SafeSport and their mission. Sexual assault is a real and important issue, and I should not have acted in a way that diminishes that. I was reacting out of grief not logic." But that never happened.
This X 100. Sappenfield made statements on facebook to the effect that it was impossible for John to have done such a thing.

I'm willing to give her a pass on this due to the short term shock and grief, but she should have followed up with some kind of statement that victims would be believed and not dismissed out of hand.

I cannot get over the fact that USFS did not require her to at least give lip service to supporting a safe environment. Publicly dismissing victims out of hand like that should result in a loss of coaching credentials and/or ability to be accredited at USFS events.
 

ErikWilliam

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296
@ErikWilliam don't forget though that SafeSport is overwhelmed and understaffed - as in, not having enough staff to adequately address the volume of complaints that they have received. I don't know how it can function effectively under those conditions. I don't know whose responsibility it is to get SafeSport more funding - I believe it's funded by allocations from each of the Olympic sports it oversees - but this is something that clearly needs to be addressed for SafeSport to provide the services it's supposed to provide.

I understand, but I'm not expecting SS to drop everything for just one case, but just to prioritize them. IIRC, TJ has allegedly done this with several underage girls, so maybe SS should consider this a priority? It IS confidential when you report, right? I totally understand why these victims don't want to report, but SS might be the only place they can at least start a "history of abuse" on a certain person. People say "Go to the police!" except it is NOT that easy. I was sexually abused as a kid and there is no way I would have ever reported it, I mean I never told my parents until I was 30, and even if I did at the time they would NEVER have gone public with it to law enforcement and would have just blamed me plus the requisite gay-shaming. It was my stupidity, my failure, they wouldn't want the infamy, I'm such a disgrace to the family, etc. I mean, no biggie for me, I'm fine, but I know I was NOT fine in my teens and felt the fear of a predator. Constantly. Every damn freaking day. My heart goes out to these skaters who really just want to be their best skater and not screw it up with USFS politik if they file a complaint.
 
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overedge

G.O.A.T.
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@ErikWilliam Thank you for telling your story. I totally agree that it would be useful to know what criteria SafeSport uses to decide where to allocate its resources and priorities. Although OTOH I hope that information wouldn't discourage people from reporting to SafeSport if they thought their case wouldn't be considered "important" enough to act on right away.
 

skylark

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187
Maybe we can’t see it now but I think Ashley coming forward will save many lives from being ruined in the future. She held US Ladies on her shoulders for 6 years, was dropped like a hot potato and then tells probably one of the most difficult accounts of her life because she saw Alysa Liu win Nationals. The Olympics should give her a gold medal for being alive.
^^ this.

And as Ashley posted just days ago on IG, " I left the sport reeling from years of negativity," https://www.instagram.com/p/CGFij3Qp4pE/

I just wish the powers that be in the sport would have acknowledged those six years she held US ladies on her shoulders, and I wish they'd given her half the attention, support, and benefit of the doubt that other US ladies had throughout. The fact that she's worked within the sport since then, to raise awareness in young skaters, coaches, etc. really says a lot about her character.
 

BaileyCatts

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And as Ashley posted just days ago on IG, " I left the sport reeling from years of negativity," https://www.instagram.com/p/CGFij3Qp4pE/


What do I have to do in instagram to see a whole post? I can't see anything past "to skate for no other" and can never make messages scroll down when people post links like this. I've clicked everything I can click. How do you scroll down and read instagram messages like this on a computer screen?
 
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Debbie S

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What do I have to do in twitter to see a whole post? I can't see anything past "to skate for no other" and can never make messages scroll down when people post links like this. I've clicked everything I can click. How do you scroll down and read twitter messages like this on a computer screen?
Instagram tends to work better on a mobile device. On my phone, after I click the link, I tap on "more" and then I can see the whole post.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
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22,991
Nothing against you, but this is so unacceptable to me. I don't want to hear people talk about it, I want people arrested. THIS IS A JOB FOR THE POLICE!!

Yes, because the police in this country have an impressive track record of investigating and ultimately convicting the perpetrators of rape and sexual assault. Maybe this needs to be a job for organizations who actually protect and help victims.
 

essence_of_soy

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5,625
As someone who grew up in the sport and has the mental and physical scars from it, as more and more (entirely unsurprising) stories come out, I'm kind of curious how anyone can be fans of it anymore. I've closed the door on being any sort of fan years ago it because I can't stomach it. Make no mistake, all of those girls boys women men etc that you see on tv or online have been subject to some form of abusive relationship, physical, sexual, emotional, what have you. I know no healthy people in this godforsaken sport and I hope it all burns to hell.

Attempting to watch skating and becoming aware of behind the scenes, is like trying to appreciate the Great Pyramids but knowing how many workers died building them.
 

Carolla5501

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The problem may be that SafeSport has a number of cases with more than one underage victim. I expect that is often the case if you look at their history so it may be prioritized but still be pretty far down the schedule.

Personally I wish the police were dealing with most of these cases. I feel like families and kids are let down by the "safe sport" "feeling of confidence' that seems to be misplaced based on the time it takes them to do things and their available "responses"
 

tony

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What do I have to do in instagram to see a whole post? I can't see anything past "to skate for no other" and can never make messages scroll down when people post links like this. I've clicked everything I can click. How do you scroll down and read instagram messages like this on a computer screen?

Yeah, this is Instagram you're asking about-- not Twitter. It really isn't meant to be used on a computer as @Debbie S said. But all you have to do is scroll your mouse down to read more. You don't need to click anything.
 
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essence_of_soy

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The problem may be that SafeSport has a number of cases with more than one underage victim. I expect that is often the case if you look at their history so it may be prioritized but still be pretty far down the schedule.

Personally I wish the police were dealing with most of these cases. I feel like families and kids are let down by the "safe sport" "feeling of confidence' that seems to be misplaced based on the time it takes them to do things and their available "responses"

You have pretty much described any Child Protection Agency or Family Court situation in Australia. Created out of necessity, well meaning and under-financed, yet understaffed and overworked.
 

MacMadame

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The problem may be that SafeSport has a number of cases with more than one underage victim. I expect that is often the case if you look at their history so it may be prioritized but still be pretty far down the schedule.

Personally I wish the police were dealing with most of these cases. I feel like families and kids are let down by the "safe sport" "feeling of confidence' that seems to be misplaced based on the time it takes them to do things and their available "responses"
Given a history of police dismissing these sort of claims and not treating victims well, I understand why people decide to use SafeSport instead. I don't think for many the choice is SS or police. It's a choice between SS and not telling anyone at all.
 

Japanfan

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This is exactly how I feel but watching skating is also the only thing in the world I really love. It tears me up inside and I desperately want to help change the sport but I don't know how.

And it remains a beautiful, exciting sport, one that offers athletes valuable opportunities and life experiences.

I am bothered by how female figure skaters are gendered and the sexual objectification of women distresses me greatly. I am constantly aware of it, more so than the average women.

But if I let that awareness guide my entertainment choices, I wouldn't be able to enjoy entertainment.

I did almost stop watching Games of Thrones because the brothel scenes were so awful - apparently they hired porn actors to play in those scenes. The treatment of women in those scenes really troubled me.

I do always give preferences to entertainment (books, movies) which has strong female characters. Fortunately there are a lot more such works today than when I was a girl.

Also, female FS can defy convention, especially with pants now being allowed in costumes, which opens up program and music possibility.

But I guess FS is largely a conventional sport.
 

Judy

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I understand, but I'm not expecting SS to drop everything for just one case, but just to prioritize them. IIRC, TJ has allegedly done this with several underage girls, so maybe SS should consider this a priority? It IS confidential when you report, right? I totally understand why these victims don't want to report, but SS might be the only place they can at least start a "history of abuse" on a certain person. People say "Go to the police!" except it is NOT that easy. I was sexually abused as a kid and there is no way I would have ever reported it, I mean I never told my parents until I was 30, and even if I did at the time they would NEVER have gone public with it to law enforcement and would have just blamed me plus the requisite gay-shaming. It was my stupidity, my failure, they wouldn't want the infamy, I'm such a disgrace to the family, etc. I mean, no biggie for me, I'm fine, but I know I was NOT fine in my teens and felt the fear of a predator. Constantly. Every damn freaking day. My heart goes out to these skaters who really just want to be their best skater and not screw it up with USFS politik if they file a complaint.

Let’s be clear though. It was never stupidity or your failure. It is never a child’s or any victim’s fault. I am so sad you had to have endured that. Thank you for telling us your story it’s so important. ❤️
 

genevieve

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Also, female FS can defy convention, especially with pants now being allowed in costumes, which opens up program and music possibility.

But I guess FS is largely a conventional sport.
Pants on women isn't defying convention; it's been conventional for women to wear pants for decades.

Defying convention would be allowing men to wear skirts. Or awarding the kind of points to reverse lifts (women lifting men) that would advance the sport in ways that awarding points to hydrant spins made them ubiquitous for a while. Or allowing same-gender couples to compete in pairs or ice dance, under the same technical requirements.

Allowing women - I mean "ladies" - to wear pants is finally approaching convention.
 

Lemonade20

Former Kurtholic
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I could be wrong, but I thought at one point female skaters had to wear a skirt when performing in a competition. I remember Kristy Yamaguchi had to add a pink "skirt" to her Doop routine to comply (professional competition). Did that change?
 

PRlady

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Pants on women isn't defying convention; it's been conventional for women to wear pants for decades.

Defying convention would be allowing men to wear skirts. Or awarding the kind of points to reverse lifts (women lifting men) that would advance the sport in ways that awarding points to hydrant spins made them ubiquitous for a while. Or allowing same-gender couples to compete in pairs or ice dance, under the same technical requirements.

Allowing women - I mean "ladies" - to wear pants is finally approaching convention.

The day two women can ice dance to one of the Elphaba/Glinda duets from "Wicked" will be one of the happiest days of my life.
 

Tinami Amori

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And it remains a beautiful, exciting sport, one that offers athletes valuable opportunities and life experiences.

I am bothered by how female figure skaters are gendered and the sexual objectification of women distresses me greatly. I am constantly aware of it, more so than the average women.
As we see, in figure skating, the victims of sexual objectification and abuse are not just women/girls.....;)
 

Tinami Amori

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19,609
Defying convention would be allowing men to wear skirts. Or awarding the kind of points to reverse lifts (women lifting men) that would advance the sport in ways that awarding points to hydrant spins made them ubiquitous for a while. Or allowing same-gender couples to compete in pairs or ice dance, under the same technical requirements.
:) Old news....
 

Willin

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I could be wrong, but I thought at one point female skaters had to wear a skirt when performing in a competition. I remember Kristy Yamaguchi had to add a pink "skirt" to her Doop routine to comply (professional competition). Did that change?
There was a rule change to ban pants for ladies. Don't know what it started (I think the late 90s?), but pants were allowed again as of the 2006-2007 season.
 

vu2019

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There was a rule change to ban pants for ladies. Don't know what it started (I think the late 90s?), but pants were allowed again as of the 2006-2007 season.

I think it was 2005-2006 that pants were first allowed (again? if they had been legal before I wasn't aware and knew Katarina had caused controversy for not having a skirt in the mid-1980s) for singles, because Irina wore a pantsuit without a skirt that season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSlFufwQRjc
 

overedge

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Most women wore dresses for skating up until the 1980s because that's what women wore. I think there may have been a few women at US Nationals who wore unitards in the 1970s or early 1980s, but as they didn't go to Worlds they weren't penalized (although I'm sure a few judges were :yikes:)

Then Debi Thomas wore a unitard for her SP in 1988, and the same year Katarina Witt wore for her LP a dress was a skirt that was mostly feathers. Some huffy judges thought the feathers didn't cover "enough". So IIRC it was right after that when the rule was instituted saying that women had to wear skirts and that the skirts had to cover the woman's hips and posterior. That rule was deleted in 2003.
 

vu2019

Member
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Most women wore dresses for skating up until the 1980s because that's what women wore. I think there may have been a few women at US Nationals who wore unitards in the 1970s or early 1980s, but as they didn't go to Worlds they weren't penalized (although I'm sure a few judges were :yikes:)

Then Debi Thomas wore a unitard for her SP in 1988, and the same year Katarina Witt wore for her LP a dress was a skirt that was mostly feathers. Some huffy judges thought the feathers didn't cover "enough". So IIRC it was right after that when the rule was instituted saying that women had to wear skirts and that the skirts had to cover the woman's hips and posterior. That rule was deleted in 2003.

Thanks. I do remember Debi wearing a unitard also now that you mention that. I can't find old communications or versions of the Special Regulations Technical Rules anymore on the ISU site, but did find several threads all from summer/early fall 2004 about skirts no longer being required (in ladies singles, and presumably for ladies in pairs-- they're still required by the lady in dance, unless otherwise specified in a season communication).

Sorry to distract from the much more serious discussion in this thread.
 

Frau Muller

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Most women wore dresses for skating up until the 1980s because that's what women wore. I think there may have been a few women at US Nationals who wore unitards in the 1970s or early 1980s, but as they didn't go to Worlds they weren't penalized (although I'm sure a few judges were :yikes:)

Then Debi Thomas wore a unitard for her SP in 1988, and the same year Katarina Witt wore for her LP a dress was a skirt that was mostly feathers. Some huffy judges thought the feathers didn't cover "enough". So IIRC it was right after that when the rule was instituted saying that women had to wear skirts and that the skirts had to cover the woman's hips and posterior. That rule was deleted in 2003.
Jill Frost created a big stir at US Nationals in 1983 (I think that was the year) when she skated her LP to Cats in a unitard. She may have debuted it in summer ‘82 at the US Sports Fest, come to think of it. Must be on YouTube...
 

bladesofgorey

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Jill Frost created a big stir at US Nationals in 1983 (I think that was the year) when she skated her LP to Cats in a unitard. She may have debuted it in summer ‘82 at the US Sports Fest, come to think of it. Must be on YouTube...
Yes, I think you have the year correct (or close). I was very much in my androgynous high school phase and didn't wear any kind of dress or skirt for three years around that time - I'd stopped competing by then but still skated in local shows and always wore a unitard rather than a dress in those- Frost had made it acceptable at our rink since she trained there a few times during that phase so I was grateful to her.
 

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