TJ Nyman accused of rape (Dalilah Sappenfield accused of supporting him)

twizzletoes76

Well-Known Member
Messages
182
I wasn’t going to chime in because I always seem to get attacked for whatever I say in this forum—but, right now, all I can see is that there is an allegation against this pairs skater from a third party (not a direct victim) on a social media platform. At this point, I have zero opinion on the matter other than Nyman is completely clueless if he thinks posting on social media accounts and going on live skating shows while being investigated by SafeSport is a good idea. Additionally, I do not need to know the name/names of possible victims to take an allegation seriously—but until any information is made public that involves substantial information (such as a time, a location, some circumstantial details), I’m certainly not going to call this guy a rapist or an abuser. Those are extremely serious charges that should not be taken lightly or just thrown around on social media platforms unless there is real evidence to back them up. And, even if evidence does appear, I think it is still important to watch how we condemn people on media channels. Anyways, I’ve said enough here. I think let’s just wait to see what SafeSport comes up with (however faulty they are) before we judge.

[As a side question, I would also ask: did the SafeSport investigation start before the girl went on social media to condemn the guy, or, did the investigation start as a result of what she wrote? I think it’s an interesting question to consider.]

I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language. If she wants people to understand the problem, she could have easily written up some detailed accounts of what she knows—leaving, of course, names out. Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more.
 

Amy L

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5,754
[As a side question, I would also ask: did the SafeSport investigation start before the girl went on social media to condemn the guy, or, did the investigation start as a result of what she wrote? I think it’s an interesting question to consider.]

TJ's appearance on TSL was before Emma Tang made her statements on social media. Dave Lease said he was in contact with SafeSport before and after the interview. Emma Tang piped in after that. So (to me) it looks like SafeSport was already working on something and TJ Nyman tried to get ahead of it by talking to TSL.
 

Aerobicidal

Thrust it!
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10,881
I really hope that at least one of the survivors' parents or guardians is aggressively pursuing an investigation with the FBI. The gravity of the accusations and the presumably huge amount of evidence that could be out there is not something I would trust the police, let alone SafeSport, with.

I've talked about this before, but I used to coach high school debate and there was a serial pedophile coach who basically got away with his crimes for ten years: insular community, "open secret," discussions on social media, no one contacted the authorities. The circumstances are meaningfully different here but this is clearly a case for the FBI.

The social media angle is so complicated and problematic, from the Dave Lease to the who's liking which awful comment to the plagiarism . . . I can't even begin to try to comment on it. The only thing I will say is I hope the publicity makes any predators in the community even a little bit less likely to prey on more victims (and I am not at all optimistic that it would, because I don't get the thought process).
 

MsZem

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Messages
14,130
I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language. If she wants people to understand the problem, she could have easily written up some detailed accounts of what she knows—leaving, of course, names out. Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more.
People use Instagram stories to communicate. They're even used for serious subject matter.

I find it telling that the best Nyman can come up with is an "I found religion" post lifted from the guy who shot Megan Thee Stallion.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
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7,976
I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language. If she wants people to understand the problem, she could have easily written up some detailed accounts of what she knows—leaving, of course, names out. Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more.

Welcome to 2020. And language? That's your takeaway?
 

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
291
I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language. If she wants people to understand the problem, she could have easily written up some detailed accounts of what she knows—leaving, of course, names out. Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more.
LMAO. If this doesn't scream "Not Ready to Judge" I'm not sure what would
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,670
It's either that or going to rehab.

(Not saying that substance abuse is involved here, just that G*d or rehab seem to be the two standard options for public figures who are accused of misconduct.)
Oh, they go into rehab for sex offenses too. They go for "sex addiction." So you nailed it.

That she associates with Lease doesn't really help her brand.
Is she still though? I haven't seen her name associated with TSL in ages.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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28,760
I wasn’t going to chime in because I always seem to get attacked for whatever I say in this forum—but, right now, all I can see is that there is an allegation against this pairs skater from a third party (not a direct victim) on a social media platform. At this point, I have zero opinion on the matter other than Nyman is completely clueless if he thinks posting on social media accounts and going on live skating shows while being investigated by SafeSport is a good idea. Additionally, I do not need to know the name/names of possible victims to take an allegation seriously—but until any information is made public that involves substantial information (such as a time, a location, some circumstantial details), I’m certainly not going to call this guy a rapist or an abuser. Those are extremely serious charges that should not be taken lightly or just thrown around on social media platforms unless there is real evidence to back them up. And, even if evidence does appear, I think it is still important to watch how we condemn people on media channels. Anyways, I’ve said enough here. I think let’s just wait to see what SafeSport comes up with (however faulty they are) before we judge.

And this line of reasoning is why you get questioned. Look at the blowback and the harassment - online and F2F - that usually hits the people who make these allegations. Knowing that, I seriously doubt that someone would make allegations like these if there was absolutely no evidence. Why would anyone voluntarily subject themselves to that?

For what it's worth, there are multiple sources of these particular allegations. Emma Tang made the first ones and then others chimed in (from what I saw on Reddit) with additional details and allegations that fit with what Emma originally said.
 

twizzletoes76

Well-Known Member
Messages
182
Welcome to 2020. And language? That's your takeaway?
I just think it diminishes her argument. Sorry, but I know next to nothing about this case yet—so I am not in a position to judge anyone in regards to the alleged crimes. If Tang wants to support survivors, that’s great—she should. But, if I don’t know anything, I’m a neutral party here—so I’m not ready to offer sympathy or support to any one side; or, to conversely vilify another. But, as someone who does know something about writing and journalism, I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,976
I just think it diminishes her argument. Sorry, but I know next to nothing about this case yet—so I am not in a position to judge anyone in regards to the alleged crimes. If Tang wants to support survivors, that’s great—she should. But, if I don’t know anything, I’m a neutral party here—so I’m not ready to offer sympathy or support to any one side; or, to conversely vilify another. But, as someone who does know something about writing and journalism, I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly.

I'm not meaning to sound rude, but regardless of whether you are familiar with current technologies/social media platforms or not, Instagram is 100% where it's at these days. Many people don't even bother to scroll through post feeds, but they do keep an eye on stories constantly. I post stories and generally have 100+ different followers already having seen them within minutes. Imagine people with the huge followings. The method she used is probably the quickest method to reach her followers / have it shared to other people.

She's not trying to be a journalist; she doesn't need to abide by modes that you are most familiar, including proper language.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,150
I wasn’t going to chime in because I always seem to get attacked for whatever I say in this forum—but, right now, all I can see is that there is an allegation against this pairs skater from a third party (not a direct victim) on a social media platform. At this point, I have zero opinion on the matter other than Nyman is completely clueless if he thinks posting on social media accounts and going on live skating shows while being investigated by SafeSport is a good idea. Additionally, I do not need to know the name/names of possible victims to take an allegation seriously—but until any information is made public that involves substantial information (such as a time, a location, some circumstantial details), I’m certainly not going to call this guy a rapist or an abuser. Those are extremely serious charges that should not be taken lightly or just thrown around on social media platforms unless there is real evidence to back them up. And, even if evidence does appear, I think it is still important to watch how we condemn people on media channels. Anyways, I’ve said enough here. I think let’s just wait to see what SafeSport comes up with (however faulty they are) before we judge.

[As a side question, I would also ask: did the SafeSport investigation start before the girl went on social media to condemn the guy, or, did the investigation start as a result of what she wrote? I think it’s an interesting question to consider.]
TJ's appearance on TSL was before Emma Tang made her statements on social media. Dave Lease said he was in contact with SafeSport before and after the interview. Emma Tang piped in after that. So (to me) it looks like SafeSport was already working on something and TJ Nyman tried to get ahead of it by talking to TSL.
My understanding is that the accusers went to both USFS and Safesport, and as nothing was done about it, Emma decided to reach out to the media. Per her twitter one of the accusers used a throwaway twitter to make a statement of their own about TJ Nyman.
 

okokok777

Well-Known Member
Messages
95
My understanding is that the accusers went to both USFS and Safesport, and as nothing was done about it, Emma decided to reach out to the media. Per her twitter one of the accusers used a throwaway twitter to make a statement of their own about TJ Nyman.

You're correct @Willin - I posted this in another forum:

Emma is a retired singles skater who trained at Broadmoor. She knows all about the allegations against TJ & has spoken directly to the girls & young women accusing him. SafeSport is investigating & it's been reported to the appropriate authorities.

Last spring through summer, she was verbally harassed and bullied by coaches/skaters at the rink in retaliation for supporting the Coughlin survivors on social media. At the time, she wasn't able to publicly discuss the situation due to pending litigation, however, it appears that circumstances have changed and she's decided to speak out publicly. Personally, I think she's incredibly brave.

(This section is in response to a question about my sources)

I've spoken to her privately along with other folks directly involved in the situation. A SafeSport employee privately confirmed that they were looking into it. Due to the nature of the allegations & evidence, it also had to be reported to law enforcement (per SafeSport policy). However, I don't know if law enforcement is actively investigating.

My apologies for not going into extensive detail - I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to discussing these cases on forums.
 

VGThuy

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Messages
33,219
My understanding is that the accusers went to both USFS and Safesport, and as nothing was done about it, Emma decided to reach out to the media. Per her twitter one of the accusers used a throwaway twitter to make a statement of their own about TJ Nyman.

I don’t think it’s that nothing was done about it. More like the investigation is happening right now and it seems things may be going public soon as whispers of something big happening started appearing on the forums so Emma decided to go forward and make a public post on social media. Maybe she was inspired by Nyman’s appearance on TSL who also seemed inspired to go public and get ahead of the story.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,748
You're correct @Willin - I posted this in another forum:

Emma is a retired singles skater who trained at Broadmoor. She knows all about the allegations against TJ & has spoken directly to the girls & young women accusing him. SafeSport is investigating & it's been reported to the appropriate authorities.

Last spring through summer, she was verbally harassed and bullied by coaches/skaters at the rink in retaliation for supporting the Coughlin survivors on social media. At the time, she wasn't able to publicly discuss the situation due to pending litigation, however, it appears that circumstances have changed and she's decided to speak out publicly. Personally, I think she's incredibly brave.

(This section is in response to a question about my sources)

I've spoken to her privately along with other folks directly involved in the situation. A SafeSport employee privately confirmed that they were looking into it. Due to the nature of the allegations & evidence, it also had to be reported to law enforcement (per SafeSport policy). However, I don't know if law enforcement is actively investigating.

My apologies for not going into extensive detail - I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to discussing these cases on forums.

I understand your position. I am sure there is a lot more going on that we (on this board) don’t know about. Emma is retired from the sport so you would think that she is “safe” from retaliataion. It’s very difficult for women/girls to come forward. I’ll wait patiently for things to come out.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,459
Holy Molyyyy

Can’t I take five or six days off from this website and clock some coins without coming back here for what appears to be major news everywhere. I can’t believe it. I need to sit back and read!
 

Carolla5501

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5,990
I just think it diminishes her argument. Sorry, but I know next to nothing about this case yet—so I am not in a position to judge anyone in regards to the alleged crimes. If Tang wants to support survivors, that’s great—she should. But, if I don’t know anything, I’m a neutral party here—so I’m not ready to offer sympathy or support to any one side; or, to conversely vilify another. But, as someone who does know something about writing and journalism, I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly.


The reason you get trashed is how your "writing" comes across.

Let's start with your statements "I'm happy to judge" In other words "journalism is not objective it's all about ME"

"the girl" Obviously an attempt to belittle and criticize. She's an ADULT, she has a name and it's real name not "hide behind a unknown name on a message board"

"I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language". In other words "I don't like the way you express yourself and as a result I have judged you and assume you aren't trustworthy,"


" I think it is still important to watch how we condemn people on media channels." Followed by " I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly." Make up your mind! you jumped in to judge and condemn here???? Maybe the first sentence should read "I think it's OK for me to do whatever I want but others should be held to a different standard". You get to judge motives and language and determine the 'girl' is not acting appropriately?



Might want to work on that knowledge of how your words come across.
 
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hanca

Values her privacy
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10,757
"the girl" Obviously an attempt to belittle and criticize. She's an ADULT, she has a name and it's real name not "hide behind a unknown name on a message board"
That’s very a culture-centric approach. You are judging others based on what is ‘normal’ in your culture and you expect them to be the same as you are. The poster used ‘the girl’, I am quite willing to believe that the poster didn’t mean by that anything bad, because in other cultures being ‘the girl’ is a completely normal expression. I tell my husband that I am going out ‘with the girls’ even though they are 30-60 years old. Yes, they are adult women, yet in my language I wouldn’t say I am going out with ‘the adult women’. In this instance ‘the girls’ is a group of my friends. Similarly, if we are talking about someone unknown, who is still looking quite young (under the age of 30), let’s say a shop assistant recommended something and I would be talking about it to my husband, I would be saying ‘the girl in the shop advised me...’. I wouldn’t say ‘the adult woman’. In my birth country people don’t get offended for being ‘the girl’ or ‘the boy’; it just suggest that you still look young. I would start worrying when I stop being ‘the girl’ - it will be time to make sure I am dying my hair and get some bottox.

I am aware that there have been traditionally issues in the USA in calling someone ‘the boy’ and ‘the girl’ and therefore I would be careful how I use it, but this is an international forum and not everyone is necessarily aware of those cultural differences. Why pointing out that someone is judgemental while you are being judgemental yourself? And why assume the worst intentions when someone wrote ‘the girl’ when there are other explanations?
 
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okokok777

Well-Known Member
Messages
95
I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language. If she wants people to understand the problem, she could have easily written up some detailed accounts of what she knows—leaving, of course, names out. Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more.

I just think it diminishes her argument. Sorry, but I know next to nothing about this case yet—so I am not in a position to judge anyone in regards to the alleged crimes. If Tang wants to support survivors, that’s great—she should. But, if I don’t know anything, I’m a neutral party here—so I’m not ready to offer sympathy or support to any one side; or, to conversely vilify another. But, as someone who does know something about writing and journalism, I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly.

So this is interesting to me because I think this may be related to different approaches & experiences with activism styles. The rejection of tone-policing and respectability politics became widespread within these spaces in the mid-2010s - including feminist groups, racial justice, anti-sexual violence, harm reduction, etc. (Full disclosure - while I've personally adopted a different activism style, I'm also anti tone-policing/respectability politics & saw no issue with the language used in her IG story).

Moreover, Emma's social justice channel with 50K+ followers is run on Instagram (and like @Tony Wheeler said, IG stories are a very effective way of getting a message out to a large percentage of your followers in a short period of time). IG stories, along with TikTok, are the most common avenues I've seen people use when they're trying to get a story like this out to the public eye. Twitter threads are also very popular.

I'm not sure if you saw @twizzletoes76 but I added a bit more information on what is going on earlier - you can find it here:

You're correct @Willin - I posted this in another forum:

Emma is a retired singles skater who trained at Broadmoor. She knows all about the allegations against TJ & has spoken directly to the girls & young women accusing him. SafeSport is investigating & it's been reported to the appropriate authorities.

Last spring through summer, she was verbally harassed and bullied by coaches/skaters at the rink in retaliation for supporting the Coughlin survivors on social media. At the time, she wasn't able to publicly discuss the situation due to pending litigation, however, it appears that circumstances have changed and she's decided to speak out publicly. Personally, I think she's incredibly brave.

(This section is in response to a question about my sources)

I've spoken to her privately along with other folks directly involved in the situation. A SafeSport employee privately confirmed that they were looking into it. Due to the nature of the allegations & evidence, it also had to be reported to law enforcement (per SafeSport policy). However, I don't know if law enforcement is actively investigating.

My apologies for not going into extensive detail - I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to discussing these cases on forums.

In re: to why she didn't write up "some detailed accounts of what she knows" - you have to understand how small the skating world is & how even an anonymous account of details with these accusations would make their identities easily identifiable to certain people in the FS world - which would make them even more vulnerable to harassment & retaliation. It's for this very same reason that SafeSport doesn't release extensive information about their investigations, implementation of temporary measures and final decisions (which has it's pros & cons for the claimants and respondents - but I'll go into that later if anyone is interested).
 

slicekw

Will Tech Support for good food.
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11,264
I just think it diminishes her argument. Sorry, but I know next to nothing about this case yet—so I am not in a position to judge anyone in regards to the alleged crimes. If Tang wants to support survivors, that’s great—she should. But, if I don’t know anything, I’m a neutral party here—so I’m not ready to offer sympathy or support to any one side; or, to conversely vilify another. But, as someone who does know something about writing and journalism, I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly.
My mother and her generation (over 75) are always horrified by "language!" but I've told her that nowadays it can be appropriate to use it. Doubly so on a social media platform. I honestly feel that elders should look for the substance and not the actual words; looking at the language can demean the substance.

As for the situation, my heart goes out to any victims and I've wondered for years who it is that DS has dirt on, she's been so blatent (the red caps for John thing made me wonder why they didn't even try to stop her).
 
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VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,219
The reason you get trashed is how your "writing" comes across.

Let's start with your statements "I'm happy to judge" In other words "journalism is not objective it's all about ME"

"the girl" Obviously an attempt to belittle and criticize. She's an ADULT, she has a name and it's real name not "hide behind a unknown name on a message board"

"I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language". In other words "I don't like the way you express yourself and as a result I have judged you and assume you aren't trustworthy,"


" I think it is still important to watch how we condemn people on media channels." Followed by " I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly." Make up your mind! you jumped in to judge and condemn here???? Maybe the first sentence should read "I think it's OK for me to do whatever I want but others should be held to a different standard". You get to judge motives and language and determine the 'girl' is not acting appropriately?



Might want to work on that knowledge of how your words come across.

Agreed with this 💯. It’s clear that is what this poster is doing given their posting in this thread thus far.
 

alilou

Ubercavorter
Messages
6,511
That’s very a culture-centric approach. You are judging others based on what is ‘normal’ in your culture and you expect them to be the same as you are. The poster used ‘the girl’, I am quite willing to believe that the poster didn’t mean by that anything bad, because in other cultures being ‘the girl’ is a completely normal expression. I tell my husband that I am going out ‘with the girls’ even though they are 30-60 years old. Yes, they are adult women, yet in my language I wouldn’t say I am going out with ‘the adult women’. In this instance ‘the girls’ is a group of my friends. Similarly, if we are talking about someone unknown, who is still looking quite young (under the age of 30), let’s say a shop assistant recommended something and I would be talking about it to my husband, I would be saying ‘the girl in the shop advised me...’. I wouldn’t say ‘the adult woman’. In my birth country people don’t get offended for being ‘the girl’ or ‘the boy’; it just suggest that you still look young. I would start worrying when I stop being ‘the girl’ - it will be time to make sure I am dying my hair and get some bottox.

I am aware that there have been traditionally issues in the USA in calling someone ‘the boy’ and ‘the girl’ and therefore I would be careful how I use it, but this is an international forum and not everyone is necessarily aware of those cultural differences. Why pointing out that someone is judgemental while you are being judgemental yourself? And why assume the worst intentions when someone wrote ‘the girl’ when there are other explanations?
It's the context @hanca. In this case it's all about the context and in the tone of the whole of @twizzletoes76 post. I actually object to being called a girl. I'm a woman. Calling women girls in some social situations as you've described is fine, accepted colloquial language, but in this context that is not at all what @twizzletoes76 meant. I have no doubt she was belittling her. Because she didn't like her language. Talk about gaslighting.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,748
The reason you get trashed is how your "writing" comes across.

Let's start with your statements "I'm happy to judge" In other words "journalism is not objective it's all about ME"

"the girl" Obviously an attempt to belittle and criticize. She's an ADULT, she has a name and it's real name not "hide behind a unknown name on a message board"

"I also think it’s interesting that the girl who made the charges on Instagram did so only in an Instagram story—and used a lot of curse words and inflammatory language". In other words "I don't like the way you express yourself and as a result I have judged you and assume you aren't trustworthy,"


" I think it is still important to watch how we condemn people on media channels." Followed by " I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly." Make up your mind! you jumped in to judge and condemn here???? Maybe the first sentence should read "I think it's OK for me to do whatever I want but others should be held to a different standard". You get to judge motives and language and determine the 'girl' is not acting appropriately?



Might want to work on that knowledge of how your words come across.

I don’t think it helps to try and bully a poster though. An open and fair discussion helps more than it hurts. In general sometimes we all don’t use the right words to describe what we think about something but this post really doesn’t help.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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10,757
It's the context @hanca. In this case it's all about the context and in the tone of the whole of @twizzletoes76 post. I actually object to being called a girl. I'm a woman. Calling women girls in some social situations as you've described is fine, accepted colloquial language, but in this context that is not at all what @twizzletoes76 meant. I have no doubt she was belittling her. Because she didn't like her language. Talk about gaslighting.
Well, you have no doubts, good for you. I do have some doubts. I would prefer not to assign people the worst intentions, if I don’t know all info. People from different cultures express differently, and there is also the generation differences in using language. As you said, you object being called a girl, whereas in my birth country it is absolutely normal.
 

Aerobicidal

Thrust it!
Messages
10,881
I don’t think it helps to try and bully a poster though. An open and fair discussion helps more than it hurts. In general sometimes we all don’t use the right words to describe what we think about something but this post really doesn’t help.
Speaking of word choices, this is yet another example of someone trivializing how toxic and damaging real bullying is by accusing FSU posters of being bullies.

Dalilah Sappenfield is the perfect example of a bully who used her power to sanction and/or promote assault and threaten anyone who would try to stop it.

FSU posters criticizing (even harshly) a poster for a series of problematic comments . . . that's not bullying. You're equating something harmless or almost harmless with something that is very far from harmless.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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10,757
Speaking of word choices, this is yet another example of someone trivializing how toxic and damaging real bullying is by accusing FSU posters of being bullies.

Dalilah Sappenfield is the perfect example of a bully who used her power to sanction and/or promote assault and threaten anyone who would try to stop it.

FSU posters criticizing (even harshly) a poster for a series of problematic comments . . . that's not bullying. You're equating something harmless or almost harmless with something that is very far from harmless.
You didn’t think it was so harmless when you were on the receiving end of that.
 

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