Titanic Missing Submersible Updates

[just tuned in]

and I have to roll my eyes at people outraged at the disproportionate amount of coverage this story received compared to the capsized boat with the refugees.

OF COURSE the five missing billionaires will get all the press coverage, it's human nature and it's been like this forever.

It's actually ironic, that's a big reason why Titanic was such a huge story in 1912—and has endured as a cultural phenomenon today—because so many of the richest people in the world were on board (and many died in the sinking). There have been other maritime disasters that no one remembers because it was all regular/poor people onboard. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way our world works.

I agree that billionaires attract our attention. Another reason why we have more interest in this tragedy than the refugees:

Psychic numbing is a psychological phenomenon that causes us to feel indifferent to the suffering of large numbers of people. A quote attributed to Joseph Stalin “One death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic” is an illustration of psychic numbing.

Most people will exert more effort to rescue one person whose plight comes to their attention than if that person is just one of many.

Psychic Numbing — The Arithmetic of Compassion

Psychic numbing is a psychological phenomenon that causes us to feel indifferent to the suffering of large numbers of people. The quote attributed to Jospeh Stalin “One death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic” is an illustration of psychic numbing.

www.arithmeticofcompassion.org

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Door or no door it wouldn’t have been survivable to exit.

It would not have. But the disaster that happened was not the only thing that could have gone wrong. If the sub had lost contact and surfaced, the passengers could have died waiting for rescue on the surface of the water or even on land because they couldn't open the door. Just because that's not the scenario that happened in this case doesn't mean it isn't irresponsible for that to be possible.

 

[once_upon]

yeah I agree. it's easy to call these people out for their ignorance after the sub imploded, but very few were outraged before this accident.

Maybe not this billionaire adventure, but I've been outraged over the fly into space "missions" and the "let's go to Mars" trips. Too much money, too little brains/common sense.

 

[Karen-W]

Maybe not this billionaire adventure, but I've been outraged over the fly into space "missions" and the "let's go to Mars" trips. Too much money, too little brains/common sense.

I've had that song "Dumb Ways to Die" playing in my head for the past hour or so, thinking about this "mission" and some of the great observations made by folks in this thread. This really is the ultimate, most expensive "Dumb Way to Die," isn't it?

 

[Judy]

It would not have. But the disaster that happened was not the only thing that could have gone wrong. If the sub had lost contact and surfaced, the passengers could have died waiting for rescue on the surface of the water or even on land because they couldn't open the door. Just because that's not the scenario that happened in this case doesn't mean it isn't irresponsible for that to be possible.

If it had been successful and returned normally to the surface there must have been a way to exit. I don’t know how these things are built though.

 

[tennellicious]

I would bet very few knew about it prior to it dominating the news ( why would we ) so there should be no expectation of outrage before the accident?

exactly!

 

[Cachoo]

If it had been successful and returned normally to the surface there must have been a way to exit. I don’t know how these things are built though.

To avoid exactly what happened they had the door bolted shut from the outside. It could have surfaced and bobbed about and been very hard to spot in the roiling waves. And they could have suffocated because no one spotted the craft.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

If it had been successful and returned normally to the surface there must have been a way to exit. I don’t know how these things are built though.

From all reporting, there was not. This was part of the reporting on the concerns, that even if it had surfaced, they would run out of air if not found, because the sub was bolted shut from the outside. Which is not standard.

 

[Prancer]

yeah I agree. it's easy to call these people out for their ignorance after the sub imploded, but very few were outraged before this accident.

Perhaps because most people had no idea such a things existed before this accident?

 

[MacMadame]

Because every health and safety regulation in the world is written in blood. And just because something works doesn't mean it's safe, sadly.

But the sub didn't fail because it used a game controller. And, really, I can't see how that fact would make the whole thing unsafe. Things like welds, not having good safety material in the viewports, etc. are the most likely places for failure and, in fact, that's exactly what happened. But a game controller is just a device that sends out signals just like something they could have built from scratch.

I'm going to guess no one knew and no one researched. For a billionaire, $250,000 is equivalent to $1. How often do people research a plane or a ship before travel?

Also, would they even have the knowledge of what to research or to understand what they did find out? I'm sure a lot of the information they would need would not be publicly available.

 

[Miezekatze]

Perhaps because most people had no idea such a things existed before this accident?

I'd definitely never heard of this "cruise".

The Bavarian guy who was on the ship in 2021 said it can't be open from the inside. It was opened from the outside after they resurfaced.

As for being "outraged", I'd heard about this guy before he died:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2020/02/23/mad-mike-hughes-dead/

But I'm not sure what having been outraged about him would have achieved or if he could have been stopped, if he had gotten the idea to take other flat-earthers as tourists on his rockets. I guess stopping such things would depend on whether it's possible to regulate such private businesses by law, for some sort of security reasons in regards to aviation laws or sea traffic laws.

 

[Cachoo]

Hubris: https://twitter.com/stonking/status/1671945151961333784?s=19

 

[marbri]

Hubris: https://twitter.com/stonking/status/1671945151961333784?s=19

I believe the carbon fibre is what James Cameron was talking about in one of his interviews. That he had no belief in its ability to withstand the pressure at those depths and voiced those concerns years ago. Mentioned he (and some other guy) haven't given any statements until confirmation of debris being found was announced because they felt strongly that it imploded on day one. I suppose some might say it's easy to say that now but I heard from others that same belief.

I really feel for the 19 year old and his living family if it is accurate he reluctantly agreed to do this to please his father. As a mother that would be so much harder for me to deal with versus trying to find comfort in him dying doing something he really wanted to do

 

[Simone411]

Maybe not this billionaire adventure, but I've been outraged over the fly into space "missions" and the "let's go to Mars" trips. Too much money, too little brains/common sense.

Yes, adventure and excitement. Just like NASA still going ahead with the launch of the Space Shuttle Challenger in 1986 when the temperature was around 26 degrees that morning. It was too cold, and I believe it was the o-ring seal or something like it that failed causing the explosion seconds after lift-off.

No, we never know what's going to happen in cases like this. But that doesn't stop them from taking chances, just as I'm almost positive that they will still go ahead with the Mars Mission. Those astronauts already know they won't be coming back, and they're excited about it. I guess if that mission fails, it won't really matter then.

 

[mattiecat13]

No, we never know what's going to happen in cases like this. But that doesn't stop them from taking chances, just as I'm almost positive that they will still go ahead with the Mars Mission. Those astronauts already know they won't be coming back, and they're excited about it. I guess if that mission fails, it won't really matter then.

The astronauts on the Mars mission know they’re not coming back?!?!

 

[Simone411]

The astronauts on the Mars mission know they’re not coming back?!?!

Yes, they know they won't be coming back. The futuristic plan is for robots to go first in order to "build the colony". Then the astronauts will leave for the mission to Mars in order to colonize it and live there permanently. They will even grow their own food there. It's sort of like what Mat Damon did in the movie, The Martian.

 

[Wyliefan]

I think someone gave you some bad information.

NASA shows off early plans to send astronauts to Mars for 30 days

The agency also wants feedback about its concept.

www.space.com

 

[Simone411]

I think someone gave you some bad information.

NASA shows off early plans to send astronauts to Mars for 30 days

The agency also wants feedback about its concept.

www.space.com

Well, they've been discussing these plans since around 2013.

Mars Colony Project Unveils 1st Private Robotic Mission to Red Planet

Mars One, the nonprofit foundation that plans to send astronauts on a one-way trip to Mars, has secured suppliers for its first mission to the Red Planet. The foundation has picked Lockheed Martin to design its unmanned vehicles.

www.space.com

Here's another article about the colony robotic mission.

Mars One's Red Planet Colony Project (Gallery)

A look at the Netherlands-based nonprofit's plan to establish a colony on the Red Planet, starting with four pioneers who would land in 2023.

www.space.com

 

[sk8pics]

Yes, adventure and excitement. Just like NASA still going ahead with the launch of the Space Shuttle Challenger in 1986 when the temperature was around 26 degrees that morning. It was too cold, and I believe it was the o-ring seal or something like it that failed causing the explosion seconds after lift-off.

Yes, it was a silicone seal, IIRC. My research group in grad school had had experiments go up in the shuttle, related to the coating on the tiles. I don’t think we had anything on that particular shuttle, though. I do remember watching the explosion with other grad students and post docs in the lab. It was devastating.

No, we never know what's going to happen in cases like this. But that doesn't stop them from taking chances, just as I'm almost positive that they will still go ahead with the Mars Mission. Those astronauts already know they won't be coming back, and they're excited about it. I guess if that mission fails, it won't really matter then.

I can’t believe there are serious plans to send human astronauts off and have them never come back any time in the reasonably soon future.

 

[rfisher]

I can’t believe there are serious plans to send human astronauts off and have them never come back any time in the reasonably soon future.

I'm pretty sure all colonists didn't plan on coming back from where they left. Humans and our close relatives have been doing that since they first walked out of Africa 2+ million years ago.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm pretty sure all colonists didn't plan on coming back from where they left. Humans and our close relatives have been doing that since they first walked out of Africa 2+ million years ago.

But in the case of Mars, NASA isn't planning to go straight from sending up probes that don't come back to sending up people that don't come back. Generally, you send people for a bit to gain experience and knowledge before you send up a bunch with the idea of living there forever.

 

[rfisher]

But in the case of Mars, NASA isn't planning to go straight from sending up probes that don't come back to sending up people that don't come back. Generally, you send people for a bit to gain experience and knowledge before you send up a bunch with the idea of living there forever.

Not always. The first peoples to come to the new world, just came. That's the human pattern of curiosity and movement. It's inherent in our genes and is one of the aspects that separates the Hominins from the rest of the great apes. I don't find NASA's potential plans to be at all out of the ordinary. When we traveled on our feet, it was too far to come back and tell everybody look what we did. Later, other groups followed until the population was sufficient that there was contact between groups. It depends on communication resources.

 

[MacMadame]

Not always. The first peoples to come to the new world, just came. That's the human pattern of curiosity and movement. It's inherent in our genes and is one of the aspects that separates the Hominins from the rest of the great apes.

I'm talking about going to another planet. It's different from moving to another spot on a planet you know supports life and has natural resources you can use to survive. Mars hasn't even got water let alone animals and plants to eat.

I don't find NASA's potential plans to be at all out of the ordinary. When we traveled on our feet, it was too far to come back and tell everybody look what we did. Later, other groups followed until the population was sufficient that there was contact between groups. It depends on communication resources.

NASA's plans are to send some people there for 30 days only as a test. So, no, I don't find that out of the ordinary either.

 

[once_upon]

The are news reports that neither OceanGate or the billionaires families will pay for rescue/recovery efforts.

The next article I read is this. The CEO deliberately broke rules, cut corners. I'm seriously pissed that we "tax payors" once again bail out billionaires.

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush said in 2021 he knew he'd 'broken some rules' by making the Titanic submersible out of carbon fiber and not pure metal: 'You're remembered for the rules you break'

Stockton Rush said he was aware he defied convention by combining carbon fiber and titanium but said he had "logic and good engineering" behind him.

www.insider.com

 

[Wyliefan]

Well, they've been discussing these plans since around 2013.

Mars Colony Project Unveils 1st Private Robotic Mission to Red Planet

Mars One, the nonprofit foundation that plans to send astronauts on a one-way trip to Mars, has secured suppliers for its first mission to the Red Planet. The foundation has picked Lockheed Martin to design its unmanned vehicles.

www.space.com

Here's another article about the colony robotic mission.

Mars One's Red Planet Colony Project (Gallery)

A look at the Netherlands-based nonprofit's plan to establish a colony on the Red Planet, starting with four pioneers who would land in 2023.

www.space.com

Okay, I see where you're coming from, but it looks like these plans are in the very early stages and so far all the astronauts who would live there are hypothetical.

 

[Simone411]

Okay, I see where you're coming from, but it looks like these plans are in the very early stages and so far all the astronauts who would live there are hypothetical.

You're absolutely right. I haven't really been able to keep up with what was happening with Mars One because of my health, etc. So, I just did some google searches, and it probably won't happen. Lockheed-Martin is working more closely with NASA now, and it's more of a reality that the astronauts will be there for 30 days as a test.

 

[sk9tingfan]

A doctor hypothesizes that the group would never have known what hit them, i.e. here one second and gone the next:

MSN

 

[tennellicious]

Perhaps because most people had no idea such a things existed before this accident?

The point I was trying to make is that it's super easy to criticize these five people after their demise—and some of the tiktoks I've seen are really gross—but this same sub made several successful trips to the Titanic before. The disclaimer reads as standard legalize to me.

 

[Prancer]

The point I was trying to make is that it's super easy to criticize these five people after their demise—and some of the tiktoks I've seen are really gross—but this same sub made several successful trips to the Titanic before.

If by successful, you mean it managed to get back to the surface without anyone dying, I suppose so. But apparently it was touch and go more than once.

I'm not sure why it should be difficult to criticize these people under the circumstances, but I guess we all have opinions.

The disclaimer reads as standard legalize to me.

You've read the disclaimer? Link, please. Are you a lawyer?

 

[marbri]

The point I was trying to make is that it's super easy to criticize these five people after their demise—and some of the tiktoks I've seen are really gross—but this same sub made several successful trips to the Titanic before. The disclaimer reads as standard legalize to me.

If by several you mean 3 trips ( with this latest being the third ) then yeah, the sub made several trips to the Titanic before:

Titan passengers share eerie accounts of safety issues on the submersible's past expeditions

Past passengers of the Titan have revealed they suffered communications failures and issues with navigation on their voyages.

www.nbcnews.com

"OceanGate completed successful expeditions to the wreckage in 2021 and 2022 before the Titian disappeared on the third trip."