The Ted Barton Appreciation Society

Well okay but your asking him to just “stop” being Canadian. That’s not realistic, since as you note, certain things are culturally seated. A Russian commenter would have the same issues (and you likely wouldn’t notice it for obvious reasons).

If he deep inside wants to be positive and fair, he is ahead of most of the rest of the world.


Tinami Amori said:
Ted means well, he is well raised, he deep inside wants to be positive and fair. But his "north american bias" does come out and certain ideology.

Just because in the old Disney "Bambi" there is a phrase "if you can't say something nice, don't speak at all" (and we, USSR kind-gartners, learned it back then), does not mean that "bias and cultural lean" is not showing.

He means well. BUT HE IS "north american", to pin point "how he evaluates" facial expressions, emotions, etc..... maybe he should not comment on the issues that have "cultural differences".

We Russians don't effing SMILE during "business", and programme skating IS BUSINESS.

He should pipe up about "emotions of Russian girls"...... We HAVE emotions. we don't express them with "32 smiling teeth exposed". We think "showing dumb smile teeth exposing the gums" is ugly and stupid.

Does not matter HOW LONG we spend in USA .. we think DUMBSMILES are not appropriate.

This should not be evaluation for "expression in a progamme".
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snoopy said:
Well okay but your asking him to just “stop” being Canadian. That’s not realistic, since as you note, certain things are culturally seated. A Russian commenter would have the same issues (and you likely wouldn’t notice it for obvious reasons).

If he deep inside wants to be positive and fair, he is ahead of most of the rest of the world.
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He is well raised and wants to be positive and fair. But! he is speaking on behalf on "international".

That means no "canadian or north-am" bias should be present. just stating facts of someone's skate.

Because there is an option. a well spoken Russian with perfect english may replace him...... and then what?
 
I still want to know where the cultural bias is. Ted, to me, can go on for hours and hours commentating, trying his best to break things down for skating fans, and yet gently point out the things he thinks a skater could work on to improve and get a better mark. Where is the issue - please give examples.
 
Tinami talked about it already. It’s not what he says about the skating, which she admits is fair. It is the occasional intrepretations of emotions.
 
Tinami Amori said:
I think Ted Barton has a very pleasant manner of speaking and gives an atmosphere for "something positive" for every skater.

But! if "finer filters of rhetoric" are applied, he is not impartial in favor of "north american skaters" or those who made a "bow towards the West", and more critical of Russians especially the ones from Tutberdize's group.

He is clever, it is hard to "pin point him"... but there is plenty of it, just very cleverly hidden.....;)
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You mean like this? You have to be quite determined to find "hidden bias" if you see it here.
 
Ted and most North Americans probably find some of the Asian girls expressionless facially - it’s also not natural for them to smile thru a program. Even Mirai, an American, was criticized for that.

So Ted is not anti- Russian or anti-Asian, he’s not from Mars and can’t be perfectly objective and acultural. But he’s an incredibly gentle and positive commentator and deserves a lot of credit for how he handles both bad and great skates.
 
clairecloutier said:
I don't know. I personally find the information that a skater is a reigning World Junior medalist to be a lot more relevant and interesting than merely reciting how many years she's been on the JGP. I always find that piece of info a bit irrelevant anyhow. Not that any of this really matters that much ... I'm just sharing an opinion based on several years of watching the JGP and listening to Barton.
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He mentions their yrs on the GP as this could be relevant to how they will handle the experience and how to judge them. When he says it is their first yr you can expect them to be more nervous and have mistakes they would not have normally made. Then there are teams who have skated for 4 yrs in the JGP who should at that point be skating like seniors.
 
Ted went to the test skates and had nothing but positive things to say. I read quite a few comments from Russians about him on VK and they respect him very much. I wonder why none of the "half a million" Russians who find him terribly biased responded. :rofl:
 
Ted Barton is more than fair, and in my estimation usually probably right, even about facial expressions of skaters right after their performances. :D

It seems to me that Barton is remembering his own experiences as a competitor, and so he is empathetic with the skaters. Plus, he's talking generally based on their overall performances and what their expressions might be saying about how they feel right after their performances. I don't see a problem with Barton's descriptions, empathy and enthusiasm for the sport, which many fans are benefiting from. He is of course not perfect, who is? I think his analyses and commentaries are generally spot-on, and add so much to viewing the JGP.

Barton is not biased. He simply knows a lot more about Canadian skaters, and he obviously has an affection for them, which is normal and to be expected. None of that means he's biased against skaters from other countries. :drama: He's fair and balanced for the most part. He cares about good skating, and he exclaims equally about wonderful performances by skaters, regardless of the countries they represent. As well, he offers fair critiques of everyone, even those with good performances, he gives suggestions on where they can improve going forward.
 
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Not really a bias but I think he is trying to instill a "don't give up on yourself or your program" mentality. Over the years he has seen grit and perseverance play a major role in the eventual results of even the most talented skaters. He usually commends those that come off all right with their few mistakes (disappointed - going to do it better next time attitude) as opposed to those who are frustrated and want everyone to know they are not happy.
 
Just to note, Ted & team have a couple of very long days this weekend - 12 hours both today and tomorrow (there's even just half an hour between events today). That's a challenge even to watch attentively, not to mention having positive/constructive things to say about every skater.
 
kalamalka said:
Just to note, Ted & team have a couple of very long days this weekend - 12 hours both today and tomorrow (there's even just half an hour between events today). That's a challenge even to watch attentively, not to mention having positive/constructive things to say about every skater.
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I know that feeling.

I have friends who are sports photographers and media who have worked some of the bigger events like Worlds and Four Continents. They are often functioning on four hours sleep a day. During the week they are sitting (or standing) in a confined area by the ice for hours at a time, then back at the computer pulling shots for the various agencies they are working for, or interviewing skaters in the mixed zone and writing articles to meet strict deadlines.

It's probably all pretty exciting and glamorous to an outsider, but the work is physically and mentally intensive.
 
puglover said:
Not really a bias but I think he is trying to instill a "don't give up on yourself or your program" mentality. Over the years he has seen grit and perseverance play a major role in the eventual results of even the most talented skaters. He usually commends those that come off all right with their few mistakes (disappointed - going to do it better next time attitude) as opposed to those who are frustrated and want everyone to know they are not happy.
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It must be so difficult to leave the ice after putting out a clunker. I can only begin to imagine how disappointed skaters would feel after going through the hard slog of training, and not being able to transfer that work to competition.

I'm reminded of a story Peggy Fleming said of advice given to her by Carlo and Christa Fassi. Whether you have had a good or bad performance, acknowledge the audience and the judges, and always finish your routine like nothing has gone wrong.
 
A great profile on Ted.

www.edgesofglory.com

Meet Ted Barton | Edges of Glory

You could call him the Mr. Rogers of figure skating, and you know what? You'd be absolutely right. Meet the New Zealand-born, Canadian-raised Ted Barton, a man of many talents and many words - all of them kind, constructive, and respectful. The man is modest to a fault, exceedingly humble, and unbe
www.edgesofglory.com www.edgesofglory.com
 
I love Barton, he did a lot for skating. One thing he should STOP: wishing that skaters "smile more".
Not in all cultures "smiling" is such a big deal. One can make a case that Ted is "imposing his cultural values" on an international community.
 
Tinami Amori said:
We Russians don't effing SMILE during "business", and programme skating IS BUSINESS.

He should pipe up about "emotions of Russian girls"...... We HAVE emotions. we don't express them with "32 smiling teeth exposed". We think "showing dumb smile teeth exposing the gums" is ugly and stupid.

Does not matter HOW LONG we spend in USA .. we think DUMBSMILES are not appropriate.

This should not be evaluation for "expression in a progamme".
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I don’t think it is about what you do in your cultural context. In China a man and woman would not even hold their hands in the public, and yet they had to learn in pairs and ice dance to express their emotions in the western way if they want higher PCS. Chinese pairs nowadays do exactly the same as non Chinese pairs and ice dancers - pretend there is a relationship between two skaters, if the programs calls for it.

While my culture influenced me that usually I wouldn’t grin without any reason, when skating, my coach required a smile. Well, it wasn’t even a smile, it was a huge stage grin from ear to ear she expected to see. Was it false? Sure, I just pasted this grin on my face at the beginning of the program and at the end of the program I needed a jaw massage because my facial muscles were hurting! But watching videos of my skating, the ones with this grin actually look much better than the ones without. From outside the grin does not look as false as it felt to me from inside, in fact, it looked as if I enjoyed the program, whereas the ones without the grin looked as if I was miserable! Watching my videos with grin and without grin, it taught me that when skating/performing, no one cares how I really feel inside; everyone cares about how it looks from outside. I could have a bereavement and silently crying inside, but if one is performing and the program wants the skater to be happy, the skater will be happy for the period of time when the music is playing. Just like Mao Asada.
 
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I think what he is looking for is signs that they are pleased with their performance when good and enjoying it out there. Smiling is but one way of showing that, but a very effective one. These skaters are young and on a long and challenging journey. Seeing their joy in it is generally positive for their audience.
 
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