The Skating Lesson

Eeyora1 said:
Loving Tukt’s comeback!

I don’t know how much political clout Doug Haw has. But I actually sat in front of him at 2016 Worlds. he mentioned at some point accidentally wandering his way into the judges lounge and heard all sorts of stuff. I found him extremely knowledgeable in fact predicting almost every single score accurately . He also taught about Lutz entry’s. Interestingly enough he thought Ashley should have been second after the short program.
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He was one of the presenters at a seminar I attended years ago and I also remember feeling that he was very knowledgeable and respecting and appreciating his perspective a lot, so I was disappointed to hear that he had made such a comment. I hope he realizes how damaging that kind of talk can be and decides not to engage in it in the future.
 
And typically, TSL can give it out, but can't take it back. They are on their twitter being all like 'who me?' in response to criticism.

I wonder if they are a little take aback that a Russian lady speaks good English and had no hesitation in protesting their remarks.

And I know this kind of thing is endemic in the sport. I just read a couple of really ill-considered comments from other Russian/Ukrainian coaches just yesterday which indicated an obsession with the weight/eating habits of female skaters. And I'm not talking sensible disciplined sports nutrition. Just the really stupid obtuse concept of 'not eating'. It's quite exhausting.

And that's why I respect someone like Tuktamysheva who has the courage to stand up for herself. It's not just these one time remarks from TSL, it's the whole system.
 
starrynight said:
And typically, TSL can give it out, but can't take it back. They are on their twitter being all like 'who me?' in response to criticism.

I wonder if they are a little take aback that a Russian lady speaks good English and had no hesitation in protesting their remarks.

And I know this kind of thing is endemic in the sport. I just read a couple of really ill-considered comments from other Russian/Ukrainian coaches just yesterday which indicated an obsession with the weight/eating habits of female skaters. And I'm not talking sensible disciplined sports nutrition. Just the really stupid obtuse concept of 'not eating'. It's quite exhausting.

And that's why I respect someone like Tuktamysheva who has the courage to stand up for herself. It's not just these one time remarks from TSL, it's the whole system.
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TSL are fools for thinking viewers who aren't from North America and other English speaking nations won't immediately understand them. Europeans often speak as many as three or four different languages.

For example, at the 2015 world championships ladies' short program press conference in Shanghai, when one reporter asked a question in English if Elizaveta would be attempting the triple axel in her free skate, before the translator had a chance to say anything, the skater smiled and answered, "No." (She was so far ahead in points at that stage, there was really no need.)

Also, having seen Tuktamysheva up close at that event, she is absolutely tiny in person.

Just as years ago when I was in Edmonton for their world championships, I was shocked by how little Irina Slutskaya was as well.
 
Per said:
I like that coach but it's so silly with his pro-Canadianism, gushing over Medvedeva because...everything with her is now absolutely wonderful since she changed from Eteri to his buddy. That she is eating more is fantastic but Tuktamysheva should lose weigh. I would argue T. is the one in better, more toned shape even. And the idea that some international committee should sit and decide who can skate to what music is absurd.
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:D He is not the only one.... tons of "western skating fans" who critiqued Medvedeva's every eye blink, now luuuuve her every eye blink... The fear and resentment of Eteri "eating all the cookies" must be contagious.. :lol:

Haw should not have commented on "Tuk loosing weight", because he is not her coach or choreographer and has not "examined her" during practice. If he just talked about "body form and aesthetics" then it would just be his opinion and preference. But giving a health related advise is not a good idea.

MK's Winter said:
I was blown away by Eteri’s reaction to Medvedeva- “you are finished” and “go have babies”.
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The comment came not from Eteri, or Medvedeva.... but as a gossip from "Doug Haw, who supposedly heard it from Brian Orser, who supposedly heard it from Medvedeva"....

... except.... no one in Russia is even bothering to comment on it (including Med or Eteri), not even those "skating professionals" who took extreme "Med vs. Eteri" sides... :lol: Why? because it is ridiculous and untrue, especially in view of the fact that Tutberidze showed her April tweets to Med with requests to get in touch so that they can plan the training schedule and programmes for the upcoming season.. :D

Plus..... Eteri is not an idiot, and regardless of "2nd mother sentiments", she had a big financial interest in Medvedeva continuing to stay competitive under her contract. Not only Eteri would get the funding and share placement prize money, she would also be sharing payments from endorsement and shows/exhibitions (which are usually between 15%-20%). If Medvedeva retired officially from Eteri's group (to go have babies), and continued to participate in commercial events, she would not be obligated to pay Eteri her contract percentage.

:lol: however..... there is an old (18th/19th century) Russian Folk saying, quite popular, which means "you/I have arrived (accomplished something big)"... and it goes like this "купи корову и женись" - "now you/I can (afford to) buy a cow and start a family". It means one has accomplished something big/important (which gave him/her status and money) and he/she can afford the "next big step in life". If hypothetically Eteri said that, and Med tried to translate it into English, as an answer to a question "what did Eteri say to you after you won the medal", i am sure the translation came out a MESS... :D
:2faced: We all hate TSL for this or that..... but we're talking about it, every pod-cast they put out....:EVILLE:
 
dramagrrl said:
Bela and Marta Karolyi once trained many, many pre-teen and teen gymnasts "so well" that they won a bunch of gold and silver medals, too... :scream:
Just saying. :saint:
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So what..... i guess US Gymnastics Association just screwed up and let it happen.

What does it have to do with the Eteri? All the girls she trains have their grand mas and moms sitting in the arena watching their kids.. Nobody complained yet, and the lines for the try outs are huuuuge.... :D

Some girls keep on banging their butts on the ice into their 20's to win something or not win at all.... and Eteri's girls get lots of Gold by the age of 15-16.... and by 17-18 they have an option go to Yale, Harvard, Oxford with a Medal on their necks (while other silly gooses can keep banging their butts further)... :lol:
 
[QUOTE="Tinami Amori said:
So what..... i guess US Gymnastics Association just screwed up and let it happen.

What does it have to do with the Eteri? All the girls she trains have their grand mas and moms sitting in the arena watching their kids.. Nobody complained yet, and the lines for the try outs are huuuuge.... :D

Some girls keep on banging their butts on the ice into their 20's to win something or not win at all.... and Eteri's girls get lots of Gold by the age of 15-16.... and by 17-18 they have an option go to Yale, Harvard, Oxford with a Medal on their necks (while other silly gooses can keep banging their butts further)... :lol:
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So you don’t find it troublesome that Eteri’s students aren’t successful past a certain age.... Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Irina Slutskaya, Maria B, Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, and Carolina Kostner are a few examples of skaters that have been successful as adults.

What does it have to do with Eteri- she doesn’t teach sustainable jump technique. She will discard you the minute you start losing (see Yulia), she will speak to you without looking at you (see Tsurskaya) if you make a mistake. Eteri certainly brings out a mental toughness in her students but is she really that great if a student cannot grow with her past a certain age??‍♀️

Edited: how could I forget Kostner
 
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Tavi said:
The comment about Liza’s weight was made by Doug Haw, not by Dave or Jonathan.

I totally disagree with his comment, but I find it kind of silly that so many people are blaming “TSL” for it.
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True, but A) they can edit however they want, and B) as I said in an earlier post, Dave (and Jenny) have made similar comments in the past, and even went back to edit them out at a later date.
 
One interesting point is that during the conversation with Meagan Duhamel (the one with the sound issues), Dave Lease said that he had spoken to someone in the Canadian camp who had been to Orser's rink, and that person (presumably Douglas Haw) had said that after the SP at the Olympics it was reported that Eteri had said she was done with Medvedeva, and the Russian Federation had said that she should go and have babies.
In his introduction to the section of the recent broadcast discussing Medvedeva, however, Dave said that he had heard that Eteri had said Medvedeva was done and should go and have babies.
I would suggest these are probably the same the reported conversation, and that there are already two very different versions of the same already put out there by Dave Lease, and that two different people/organisations have reportedly said the same thing underlines the amateurism and lack of integrity of the Skating "Lesson".
 
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MK's Winter said:
So you don’t find it troublesome that Eteri’s students aren’t successful past a certain age.... Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Irina Slutskaya, Maria B, Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, and Carolina Kostner are a few examples of skaters that have been successful as adults.
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I would find it troubling if it was true... :D Zag, Med, Tzur, Pan are all skating, as you noticed in the Test Skates.. :D and doing just fine for the time of the year... nobody is in a hospital or not doing 3x..

MK's Winter said:
What does it have to do with Eteri- she doesn’t teach sustainable jump technique. She will discard you the minute you start losing (see Yulia), she will speak to you without looking at you (see Tsurskaya) if you make a mistake. Eteri certainly brings out a mental toughness in her students but is she really that great if a student cannot grow with her past a certain age??‍♀️
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Yes, she does... :D all girls have good jumps and continue to skate. Even Panenkova, who switched to Tzareva 2 months ago, just thanked the Eteri's coaching group for "ALL they have taught me, because WITHOUT THEM i would not have been at the high tech level i am at now"..... From the horse's mouth.... :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhTlr8Bxzx0

... and i won't flood this discussion with FS professionals' commentary about the value of Eteri's techniques to the girls regardless of who their coach is. Too many..

... and growing past "a certain age with her" has nothing to do with age in terms of a number. There are a lot of girls in her group and a lot of competition, while the girls are juniors the have less "egos" and more "hope to be number one". When they switch to seniors, they have more "ego" and see a realistic picture where they will stand in the group. Not all can handle being "small bird in a big city" vs. "large bird in a small village" + plus other "maturity issues" affect girls' decision.

Eteri or any coach is NOT obligated to have quotas of "age categories and groups". Eteri made and makes Junior and Senior champions, and each girl who won medals corresponds to the group's age requirement. That's all that counts.

I don't feel like searching for articles where Radionova says how Boyanova made her not eat for 3 days, and Sotnikova's article around 2014 Olympics how she constantly hungry and depressed about not being able to enjoy food. But.... all Eteri haters are just so happy that Tzur went to Boyanova, as long as it is not Eteri. And everybody forgot that Tzareva who now has Panenkova, allowed Pogorliya's back problems, and mentally destroyed her after a poor skate where Pogo was laying on the ice with back pain.... But if people insist, i WILL find Rad and Sot articles about "Boyanova and hunger"..

Icetigger said:
I would suggest these are probably the same the reported conversation, and that there are already two very different versions of the same already put out there by Dave Lease, and that two different people/organisations have reportedly said the same thing, underlines the amateurism and lack of integrity of the whole operation.
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Eteri's group and methods are a phenomenon and a success that make lots of people twitch and act ugly. Successful people are measured by the amount of enemies they have.. :lol:

Eteri is a great, but tough and sometimes rude, coach. When she is not tough or rude, she takes great care of the girls, teaching them cosmetics, how to dress, takes them to health spas, on vacations with her, to theatres and plays, and interesting arts events... And yes, there are many interviews from Med, Zag and other girls "how Eteri enhances their lives" outside the rink..... but that is never mentioned.. because "if someone is doing something you can't do, then there must be something wrong with that person or methods".
Jealousy is one of the "deadly sins".. :EVILLE:
 
Tavi said:
The comment about Liza’s weight was made by Doug Haw, not by Dave or Jonathan.

I totally disagree with his comment, but I find it kind of silly that so many people are blaming “TSL” for it.
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Why? It's not like it's an unusual sort of comment for them to make. Those fleas have been making these sorts of comments for years. They spout crap about ladies' weights and body shapes all the time. I mean I suppose at least this time they're not accusing a girl with a broken ankle of withdrawing because she knew she'd fail the drug test, but this sort of comment is not out of their wheelhouse at all.
 
misskarne said:
Why? It's not like it's an unusual sort of comment for them to make. Those fleas have been making these sorts of comments for years. They spout crap about ladies' weights and body shapes all the time. I mean I suppose at least this time they're not accusing a girl with a broken ankle of withdrawing because she knew she'd fail the drug test, but this sort of comment is not out of their wheelhouse at all.
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Plus, DL seemed to think until recently that the Marta Karolyi demeanor at USAGym was a model for how USFS should run things. I know I didn’t imagine his “Marta” comments.
 
misskarne said:
Why? It's not like it's an unusual sort of comment for them to make. Those fleas have been making these sorts of comments for years. They spout crap about ladies' weights and body shapes all the time. I mean I suppose at least this time they're not accusing a girl with a broken ankle of withdrawing because she knew she'd fail the drug test, but this sort of comment is not out of their wheelhouse at all.
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You know that just because someone says something in the past or says something similar doesn’t make them guilty of saying it in the present, right? If you think the comment sucked (I do) get angry at Doug Haw. He’s the one who said it.

@wickedwitch they’ve had a lot of guests but how are they responsible for what a guest says? I happen to like Duhamel a lot but she made some remarks about Liza’s photos that a lot of people disliked. Are TSL bad for giving her a platform where she might say something?

@Tony Wheeler is there any evidence that Dave made nasty remarks about Liza’s weight and then edited them out? Considering the length of their shows and some of the things they have said that offended many but were not edited out, it seems unlikely to me.

Again, I didn’t like the remark Doug Haw made and I actually disagree with it. I simply don’t think it’s Dave’s fault that he said it or his responsibility to prevent Doug from expressing an opinion. I agree he could have challenged it.
 
Tavi said:
You know that just because someone says something in the past or says something similar doesn’t make them guilty of saying it in the present, right? If you think the comment sucked (I do) get angry at Doug Haw. He’s the one who said it.

@Tony Wheeler is there any evidence that Dave made nasty remarks about Liza’s weight and then edited them out? Considering the length of their shows and some of the things they have said that offended many but were not edited out, it seems unlikely to me.

Again, I didn’t like the remark Doug Haw made and I actually disagree with it. I simply don’t think it’s Dave’s fault that he said it or his responsibility to prevent Doug from expressing an opinion.
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I never said that he said anything about Liza's weight. My point was that TSL has made very similar remarks in the past and then gone back and tried to hide the fact that they said them in the first place, almost certainly because they wanted to be on good terms with said skaters.
 
Tavi said:
The comment about Liza’s weight was made by Doug Haw, not by Dave or Jonathan.

I totally disagree with his comment, but I find it kind of silly that so many people are blaming “TSL” for it.
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It's called guilt by association.

As Tony Wheeler pointed out, TSL could have edited the comment out, and did not. Keep in mind that vlogcast was not a live stream, either.
 
Tinami Amori said:
and Eteri's girls get lots of Gold by the age of 15-16.... and by 17-18 they have an option go to Yale, Harvard, Oxford with a Medal on their necks
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One Eteri's girl 18+ is coaching with Tzareva after anorexia. Second Eteri's girl 18+ is coaching with Ilinykh after anorexia. Third Eteri's girl 18+ (now Brian's) said that to eat in front of cameras is historical moment for her.

And only Nathan Chen 18+ studies at Yale.
 
Tony Wheeler said:
I never said that he said anything about Liza's weight. My point was that TSL has made very similar remarks in the past and then gone back and tried to hide the fact that they said them in the first place, almost certainly because they wanted to be on good terms with said skaters.
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No, @Karne said that. I quoted her, and that portion of my response was directed to her. I’m sorry if I misunderstood your point as to the editing, but I thought you were suggesting that they’d edited something out here, which is why I asked that question. As to the past: the only previous weight-related comment I recall hearing on TSL was by Alex O, Gracie’s old coach, and come to think of it, I think it was about Liza. So stupid, I think she’s gorgeous. Anyway, I do not think that comment was edited out and I don’t recall any others. I’m sure you probably know that Jenny has been quite open about struggling with an eating disorder, so I’d be surprised to learn that she commented negatively and publicly on a skater's weight.

@essence_of_soy, all I can say is that I’m very glad I’m not a criminal defendant at trial, with you on the jury. “Guilt by association” is all kinds of wrong. And by the way, I believe that your suggestion that TSL could have edited out Doug Haw’s remarks is basically the exact opposite of what Tony Wheeler was saying, which-if I understood correctly-is that when TSL has said something “wrong” in the past, they edit it out so they look better.
 
Danidin said:
One Eteri's girl 18+ is coaching with Tzareva after anorexia. Second Eteri's girl 18+ is coaching with Ilinykh after anorexia. Third Eteri's girl 18+ (now Brian's) said that to eat in front of cameras is historical moment for her.
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Misinformation..

1) Shelepen did not have anorexia. She left because she grew tall very suddenly, it affected her practice, she felt that Lipnitskaya is stepping on her heels and Eteri sees her as #1. She said she felt to be 2nd to Lip, whom she was best friends with, and did not know how to handle being both "a best friend and a competitor".

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ontheice/674279.html
""Настоящие друзья не соревнуются между собой и не завидуют, а помогают и искренне радуются друг за друга".
"True friends can not be competitors and jealous of each other, they should help each other and be happy for each other".

Then she went to CSKA rink, trained with Sokolovskaya, struggled with jumps, twisted her foot, was given wrong diagnosis which resulted in a more severe injury, to a point where "not only I could not jump, but could hardly walk".

"Шелепень перешла в ЦСКА к Светлане Соколовской. Дальше все знают: подвёрнутая нога на тренировке, неправильный диагноз, усугубление травмы до степени "я долгое время не то что прыгать, но и ходить нормально не могла".

Then there was a question of skating for Israel, then Shelepen quit. But..... then 6 years later Shelepen returned to Sambo-70/Eteri: Shelepen's own words "We all make mistakes, but one must learn to recognize them, and in my case it is best to not take too long to do so... Love everybody, see all soon".
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1062578628.html
Все мы делаем ошибки, все мы люди. Но нужно уметь их признавать и желательно в моем случае не затягивать с этим. Всех люблю и до встречи», — написала Шелепень.

2) Lipnitskaya. Had eating issues before she came to Eteri. In 2013 before Eteri looked close at the "eating issue" closer to the 2014 Olympics, Lipnitskaya said this (about her own approach to weight and food).
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/152374786.html
"Lipnitskaya - I think it is indecent (shameful) for a figure skater to look fat, and to be badly dressed"

Yulia: I did not grow. Did not even gain weight. Although! wait a minute: at the beginning of last year (winter 2012) I did gain 5 or 6 kg. I remember, looked at myself in the mirror, and oppa! I see two of myself (2 Yulias). Immediately got my self back into shape, after first two practices.

But during those practices, i remember, it was just shameful to come out on the ice in such condition, because I think it is indecent (shameful) for a figure skater to look fat. And also to dress badly.... after all our sport is visual (in public's eye) and we must keep our selves in shape accordingly".

– Вроде никакого особого роста не было. И даже прибавки в весе не было. Хотя, стоп: в самом начале прошлого сезона я прибавила килограммов пять или шесть. В зеркало, помню, посмотрела – о-па! А там уже две Юли... Привела себя в порядок только после первых прокатов.

Но на тренировках, помню, было стыдно на лед выходить. Фигуристке, считаю, неприлично выглядеть толстой. И одеваться кое-как – тоже. Все-таки у нас публичный вид спорта, и надо соответственно к себе относиться, – рассказала Липницкая в интервью «Спорт-Экспрессу».

The post Olympic season she fought with Eteri, transfered to Dudakov, felt uneasy because Medvedeva was coming up in the ranks. She also gained a sponsor who paid for a lot of her expenses and expected RESULTS as she was his investment. That added pressure on Yulia, to stay competitive and win medals, but this fact is rarely mentioned. His name is Peter Makarenko owner of "Telesport": http://c-ib.ru/novosti-dnya/114576.html

She then went to Urmanov in Sochi, without mother, and posted stories "how she eats breakfast and spends her day". After one season with Urmanov, she still had issues, and things with Urmanov did go as smoothly as it seemed. There were days when she was in "bad spirit", struggling with weight and puberty still, and came to practice in jeans and sweater, not ready to practice. https://img.championat.com/news/big/g/z/aleksej-urmanov-i-julija-lipnickaja_14612494291748139457.jpg

Then in 2017 she left for the clinic to "fix her health" and it supposedly included an eating disorder.

3) Medvedava and "historic moment" of eating in front of the camera for the first time now that she is Canada......:eek:
Where do people get this crap of information?

Medvedeva posted "eating dinners and snacks" fotos for as long as i can remember her.... :D
Her every trip to Japan since 2016 she posted a foto from a sushi bar or a diner.... Too long to look for all, here are few
:D
https://cdn.tribuna.com/fetch/?url=https://pp.userapi.com/c638720/v638720115/5734b/DIJ5bj7nivU.jpg

https://www.fsrussia.ru/images/interviyou/EvgeniaMedvedeva/Medved5.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-USetcs1FE

Not to mention her comments to the press "I watch what I eat, but can not deny myself sushi, marmelade, and fruits". Спортсменка следит за питанием, но не может отказаться себе в суши, мармеладе и фруктах.
https://uznayvse.ru/znamenitosti/biografiya-evgeniya-medvedeva.html

If people lied less and worked more on what they need to, they would succeed all on their own, and would not need to lie.... :lol:

Danidin said:
And only Nathan Chen 18+ studies at Yale.
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And prior to that, just to name a few, Sarah H. won Gold and left for an Ivy League University, and Debbie T. won olympic medal and left for an Ivy League University.... and there are more with good competitive careers and medals who went to good colleges/universities. Some people have their priorities straight.. :D
 
All of you really need to stop trying to say that certain programs are better than others :rolleyes: I get that FSU is about the :argue::drama: but maybe the issues that should be addressed should be how issues with weight are so prevalent regardless of country?

If I’m giving an opinion though. Most credit should go to the athlete. El Fin
 
Tavi said:
The comment about Liza’s weight was made by Doug Haw, not by Dave or Jonathan.

I totally disagree with his comment, but I find it kind of silly that so many people are blaming “TSL” for it.
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That's only part of the troubling comments, and Jonathan tried to justify it.
 
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