The Skating Lesson

[VGThuy]

Yeah unlike Buzzfeed, TSL went the opposite way. They were starting to gain traction and credibility but once Jenny left, it took a nosedive to the lowest common denominator. But it relishes in that. It is what it is, so at least people know what to expect. That said, I am still grateful for the interviews they have done in the past as those were excellent and conducting an interview from a fan’s perspective is really the best way to go for people like us.

 

[berthesghost]

That’s fine, but let’s face it none of them are winning a RuPaul reading challenge. Is the library really open if it’s all unintelligible. Their reads are like : Dave: “and then there’s Ashley”
La: “I don’t know, she’s so...” mumble bad audio Jonathan talking at same time
Jon: “she’s like ...” mumble bad audio all 3 talking at once
Dave: “ ...... (mumble bad audio too many people talking over each other) so enough about that”
Jon: “yeah, that’s all I’m saying”
That’s a read?

 

[Rock2]

For all the criticsm of Dave, he has a lot of followers, especially compared to the curators of more down the middle content.

TSL has 56K instagram followers where Rocker Skating has 10K
They are about the same on Twitter, TSL has 20% more.
TSL YouTube views are in the 30K-50K for the average major video.
TSL has just under 40K friends to Wong's 3 on FB.

If memory serves, most of these followers were acquired post-Jenny.

I think because Dave can rub people the wrong way, his detractors are more vocal than his supporters, so it seems he's maybe not doing well. But the stats show the market is craving for his type of content. As unhinged as Dave may seem, he's not dumb. I think he sees the opportunity and is going for it. Takes some combo of courage and stupidity to be brassy. He has missteps but it's a part of the learning process as he strives to perfect his, um, craft (?) and own his niche.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I’m sorry but Jackie Wong mostly just regurgitates information. That is his “brand.” Most anyone can sit at a practice and “report” what is happening. He is also quite biased at times and says some very goofy-minded things. Though he and even Dave are better than that talking head Nick McCarvel. Jackie, Blade Boys (with unbearable and absolutely Canadian-biased Ted Flett), and Dave get relatively the same information and access.

 

[starrynight]

Jackie Wong reporting the content of all the practices is amazing.

 

[vireo]

Jackie Wong's reporting from competitions is an incredible gift to skating fans who can't be there. I believe he truly appreciates the work and sacrifices required to become an elite level skater. Jackie's enthusiasm for his favorites never leads to hostility and disrespect toward their rivals. That's something we would all do well to emulate.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I’m sorry but Jackie Wong mostly just regurgitates information. That is his “brand.” Most anyone can sit at a practice and “report” what is happening. He is also quite biased at times and says some very goofy-minded things. Though he and even Dave are better than that talking head Nick McCarvel. Jackie, Blade Boys (with unbearable and absolutely Canadian-biased Ted Flett), and Dave get relatively the same information and access.

He actually does some good analyses and provides some great information regarding IJS for those less studied in that area. Ted is a super nice fellow but perhaps a bit monotone. I like Jackie because he doesn't trash anyone.

 

[DimaToe]

So I made a comment on one of TSL’s videos earlier today and TSL was quick to reply lol. I replied to said reply so let’s see what comes out of this

 

[berthesghost]

Jackie Wong's reporting from competitions is an incredible gift to skating fans who can't be there. I believe he truly appreciates the work and sacrifices required to become an elite level skater. Jackie's enthusiasm for his favorites never leads to hostility and disrespect toward their rivals. That's something we would all do well to emulate.

It’s just apples vs oranges to me and really, since Jackie does such a good Job at what he does, what need is there for another like him. It’s great but I also find it a bit dull.

I like that TSL brings up topics that no one else in skating is talking about even if I don’t agree with their viewpoint. No one in skating is going to say it’s time to let the tonya hate go, or that Adam is a vague also ran enjoying his 15 minutes as a gay icon not because of what he’s accomplished but because middle America is finally ready to accept the idea of a gay icon. I pretty much disagreed with everything they said in their DWTS finale recap but it was interesting to hear none the less. Yes, they came off as “way harsh Tai” to Adam, Mirai, Ashley and all of the alleged Tonya boycotters but they’re entitled to an opinion and none of it actually changed anything in the real world.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Jackie Wong may be considered a little dry in some circles. But, he has worked very hard to get to where he is and now, Rocker Skating is considered an invaluable resource.

TSL isn't taken very seriously by legitimate media outlets (or the ISU for that matter), and I think their chances of being allowed press access to big events diminishes with each recap.

 

[kwanatic]

I appreciate TSL for what it is: the US Weekly of figure skating news. I made this analogy a while back. When Jenny was on the show TSL was more like People Magazine: a little gossipy but good substance. Since Jenny departed, TSL is US Weekly: oodles of gossip with a few nuggets of substance.

I still check out their video recaps of competitions. However, I will say I give many thanks to those viewers who are kind enough to provide links to different parts of the discussions. Dave & Co. go on and on and on and on and on...*inhales*...and on and on and on...It's just too much. Some editing would go a long way there.

 

[aftershocks]

Everyone's going to Brian Orser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgO_N4D3qRw

Oh boy, I enjoy any kind of figure skating coverage, but this episode is a hot mess and 'a little extra,' as Dave would say, but not ever about himself and Jonathan.

I don't disagree with everything they say. It's entertaining to a degree, but just as equally annoying with some of their know-it-all utterances (kinda boring in the beginning and at the 55 min mark -- it's very obvious who they dislike). And of course their more provocative gossip-laced takes are a bit much. The idea that Jonathan thinks he & Dave 'convinced' Jason Brown to switch coaches is so it isn't even funny.

Part of what's wrong with the sport is the half-assed notion (proven true by clueless ISU-judging, fs politics, and the scoring system) that quads are the end-all, be-all. I'm so frickin' tired of that ass-backward state of affairs among the men.

Dave with a smirk pronouncing that JB has 18 months and that's it if he doesn't get the quad. I wonder how long you have Dave, before it's all over.

JB can do quads, it's just about reworking his technique to achieve mastery and consistency, which breeds confidence. And the other part of that is the mental strategy needed for competitions, and the fact that quad-laced programs can take something away from fully realizing an artistically satisfying performance.

What is this about the U.S. only having Alysa Liu to bank on for the future of their ladies discipline (unless Gracie comes back)???

If true, it is interesting about Meagan Duhamel planning to help Josee Picard with coaching Julianne Seguin & Charlie Bilodeau (mentioned toward the end about 1:10:39).

ETA:
Sadly, I do have to agree with Dave's contention at the end of the broadcast that there are a lot of 'useless overwrought admin types' hanging around taking up space in the sport. That's obvious from just watching some of the ISU Congress livestream. Cool that they are livestreaming, but some of the display of ineptness is striking.

 

[berthesghost]

Did they really say a Gracie comeback could save US ladies?! Sorry, I'd watch myself but I just don't have an extra 55 minutes at the moment to slog thru eye rolls and vague enuendo just to get to one 3 second Gracie comment. Well, they are consistently inconsistent, so considering how bitchy they were during her rough times I can see them now claiming she was great with no hint of irony. 2010 Cohen hype at least had the former sucess angle to it.

 

[aftershocks]

Did they really say a Gracie comeback could save US ladies?! Sorry, I'd watch myself but I just don't have an extra 55 minutes at the moment to slog thru eye rolls and vague enuendo just to get to one 3 second Gracie comment. Well, they are consistently inconsistent, so considering how bitchy they were during her rough times I can see them now claiming she was great with no hint of irony. 2010 Cohen hype at least had the former sucess angle to it.

^^ Actually, Dave said it with some sarcasm starting around 38:28 in the broadcast, after riffing about what a 'miracle" that Orser had helped Gabby Daleman win a World medal, which "P.J. Kwong is so happy [about] and never thought she would see the day..."

Dave's words: "As I said Alysa Liu is all we have ya know. And the two years until Gracie either comes back and looks amazing or bows out, we'll say 'Well, maybe Gracie can come back.'" Jonathan ad-libbed: "Ha ha, Gracie forever..."

And then they were immediately back to discussing with vague innuendo and eyerolls Orser's delicious dilemmas...

I probably didn't catch the sarcasm the first time around since I was close to dozing off.

 

[barbarafan]

^^ Actually, Dave said it with some sarcasm starting around 38:28 in the broadcast, after riffing about what a 'miracle" that Orser had helped Gabby Daleman win a World medal, which "P.J. Kwong is so happy [about] and never thought she would see the day..."

Dave's words: "As I said Alysa Liu is all we have ya know. And the two years until Gracie either comes back and looks amazing or bows out, we'll say 'Well, maybe Gracie can come back.'" Jonathan ad-libbed: "Ha ha, Gracie forever..."

And then they were immediately back to discussing with vague innuendo and eyerolls Orser's delicious dilemmas...

I probably didn't catch the sarcasm the first time around since I was close to dozing off.

Well he has fullout snark and thinly veiled snark. Orser gets the light snark as he has given Dave the time of day but still he is
not invited to the invitation only cricket club. One of the reasons it is chosen to train as it has strict privacy rules and mouths are zipped.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Well he has fullout snark and thinly veiled snark. Orser gets the light snark as he has given Dave the time of day but still he is
not invited to the invitation only cricket club. One of the reasons it is chosen to train as it has strict privacy rules and mouths are zipped.

Jackie Wong or even Phil Hersh would likely not be granted access either.

 

[barbarafan]

Jackie Wong or even Phil Hersh would likely not be granted access either.

Definitely not...Brian might give a few words or interviews but it is by phone or when he is away from TCC if in person. That must drive Dave crazy...look how he got so upset when he went to Gadbois and T & S weren't there.

 

[DimaToe]

TSL is a perfect example of how to turn gold into dirt. I have defended Dave and CO. in the past but it’s getting sad at this point, of course TSL can maintain a constant following, the TMZ/celeb. trash group of skating fans. It’s just a shame that Dave took the earlier route since Jenny left. Yes he couldn’t control what Kirk decided to do with her life, but he had the ability and connections to find the appropriate co-host what would provide the needed insight and knowledge to balance out his snark.

 

[Sylvia]

... Phil Hersh would likely not be granted access either.

Hersh interviewed Brian Orser and other coaches in Toronto before 2016 Worlds... pretty sure he was granted access to the Cricket club at that time.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

Hersh interviewed Brian Orser and other coaches in Toronto before 2016 Worlds... pretty sure he was granted access to the Cricket club at that time.

In this 2016 interview with Brian, Phil notes the stack of fan mail in Brian's office at TCC. So yes, I would think Phil would have no trouble gaining access there. Also, their relationship goes back decades, back to when Brian was competing.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/03/21/167742446

 

[barbarafan]

In this 2016 interview with Brian, Phil notes the stack of fan mail in Brian's office at TCC. So yes, I would think Phil would have no trouble gaining access there. Also, their relationship goes back decades, back to when Brian was competing.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/03/21/167742446

Exactly..Hanyu was not in residence when he visited and had not been there for months. There are special agreements there.

 

[misskarne]

The thing is though, if Orser was going to let someone in while Hanyu was there, I imagine it would be someone like Hersh or Wong, who can be trusted not to run their mouths. Whereas regardless of Lease getting along with Haw, I can't see Orser ever allowing it - or any coach who had something they wanted kept secret, because Lease would just splash every detail all over Twitter and Facebook and whatever just so he could brag about how he knew.

 

[VGThuy]

The thing is though, if Orser was going to let someone in while Hanyu was there, I imagine it would be someone like Hersh or Wong, who can be trusted not to run their mouths. Whereas regardless of Lease getting along with Haw, I can't see Orser ever allowing it - or any coach who had something they wanted kept secret, because Lease would just splash every detail all over Twitter and Facebook and whatever just so he could brag about how he knew.

Exactly.

 

[caseyedwards]

It’s amazing because Russia has no teams with dubreuil Russia is not even talked about in ice dance on tsl anymore. Russia has no ice dance teams!

 

[Quadaxel2020]

Did anyone catch that line about Anthony Bourdain being an oversalter sort of near the end of the latest show? Jonathan seemed thrown off and upset by it. I mean, a man just died in a very tragic way... cmon Dave.

 

[GullyGirl84]

Eh, Dave just seems to go out of his way to be provocative sometimes (he sees it as his Brand, for some reason...like all of his "peephole" jokes/references to Erin Andrews during the DWTS recaps. Not for me.). I skipped this past show when one of the generous souls who timestamps in the youtube comments said that they didn't start talking about skating until 13 minutes in. Maybe I'll try it again when the gp series start and see if they've gotten any better by then.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Did anyone catch that line about Anthony Bourdain being an oversalter sort of near the end of the latest show? Jonathan seemed thrown off and upset by it. I mean, a man just died in a very tragic way... cmon Dave.

Wow. Just wow.

Dave Lease has officially become the Logan Paul of skating.

What a disgusting, insensitive individual.

 

[MAXSwagg]

The thing is though, if Orser was going to let someone in while Hanyu was there, I imagine it would be someone like Hersh or Wong, who can be trusted not to run their mouths. Whereas regardless of Lease getting along with Haw, I can't see Orser ever allowing it - or any coach who had something they wanted kept secret, because Lease would just splash every detail all over Twitter and Facebook and whatever just so he could brag about how he knew.

I’m pretty sure if Hanyu is there and someone wants to discuss him, it’s Shirota doing the “allowing,” not Brian.

 

[rhapsody]

Did anyone catch that line about Anthony Bourdain being an oversalter sort of near the end of the latest show? Jonathan seemed thrown off and upset by it. I mean, a man just died in a very tragic way... cmon Dave.

I usually roll my eyes whenever someone here hate watches and then whines about how mean TSL is to a skater because they called them talentless or their programs terrible or that they have phony personalities because I hear much worse in other sports. I also don't hold Dave to the same journalistic standard that so many here tend to do? I watch his show because it's irreverent and funny (and NGL, some of the drama they create with the fans/skaters is fun to follow or their occasional meltdowns) and not because they provide breaking news or analysis on the sport.

That being said, this comment did not sit well with me. Sure, I have an effed up sense of humor and can appreciate a well executed dark joke from time to time, but bringing Anthony up at all in this instance was completely pointless. It was just a comment to show how much of a massive bitch he can be. Completely non-sequitur and there was nothing to that remark that tied in with what he said before or after. I expect Dave to be snarky and kind of an asshole, but this did cross the line. Oh well.

 

[aftershocks]

Ah well, the latest episode has some entertaining moments as usual. I'm glad someone pointed out how the first 13+ minutes is nothing about figure skating, so I could scroll forward and skip the distractions.

Aside from the random and offensive comment about the late great Anthony Bourdain, which Dave bafflingly referenced as a text from a friend, everything else was interesting except for my Jonathan-weary-itis , plus a few dead spots and rambling. I do agree with quite a bit of Dave's views on many of the new ISU rules changes. And I agree about needing to see more unpredictability in program moves and layouts. Also, I hadn't yet heard the gossip about Bradie, supposedly moving to a new coach. So that's another newsworthy tidbit, if true. There was also an interesting rundown on the possible impact of the Gadbois camp additions, and an apologetic-like return to sucking up to diva Alexa, now that she's been Aliona-inspired and re-energized.