The Skating Lesson 2018/2019

Eeyora1

Well-Known Member
Messages
178
I’m not defending Dave Lease but I sat with Doug Haw at 2016 Worlds and he isn’t an Elaine Zayak fan. At least the 1980’s version. We got into to talking about ISU rules after Maxim Kovtuns performance in the short. Sadly he’s not the only one. I find Peggy Fleming’s commentary of Elaine’s skating from 81 -84 downright insulting. Dick wasn’t always a fan but he did have a special place in his heart for her

Interestingly enough, I believe Dave and Elaine are from the same area of Northern New Jersey. (Paramus area) I was kind of surprised Dave went with Doug’s with. Dick Button also grew up not too far from there.
 

MK's Winter

Well-Known Member
Messages
308
You're right, it's not clear what the interim restriction entailed but we don't know that John wasn't prevented from attending Nats as a spokesperson for a vendor. Or at the very least, the optics wouldn't have been good; Wilson may have requested John not attend until the matter was resolved. For the sake of accuracy, the notice of his restriction was posted on the SafeSport website in mid-Dec.
While it was posted- it’s not easy to find of the USFS’s public site. At the very least they should have emailed all members- it’s my understanding they did not. They wanted it to go away. Organizations haven’t picked up on the fact that it is more favorable to be transparent...
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,194
You're right, it's not clear what the interim restriction entailed but we don't know that John wasn't prevented from attending Nats as a spokesperson for a vendor. Or at the very least, the optics wouldn't have been good; Wilson may have requested John not attend until the matter was resolved. For the sake of accuracy, the notice of his restriction was posted on the SafeSport website in mid-Dec.
The USFSA told Christine Brennan that the original limitation did not restrict Coughlin from any activities related to them. Obviously that changed after they made that statement with the change in the Safe Sport status.

John Wilson did not wait for Safe Sport to act further - Coughlin was out days before the restrictions went into place, but after TSL highlighted the issue. It might be coincidence, but it may be that John Wilson realized that the publicity would be terrible for the brand.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
5,875
I think Lease is angry because he and Wong started producing online content at around the same time. Looking at where both are now, you reap what you sew, as far as I am concerned.
They both host podcasts, and have a similar following social media. I think they both approach sport very differently where 'The Skating Lesson' is more of a tabloid version and little bit more outside the mainstream, whereas 'Rocker Skating' is a little bit more institutional and plays it a little safer. Both have their place, and if either draw attention to the sport than all the better.
 

essence_of_soy

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,093
I’m not defending Dave Lease but I sat with Doug Haw at 2016 Worlds and he isn’t an Elaine Zayak fan. At least the 1980’s version. We got into to talking about ISU rules after Maxim Kovtuns performance in the short. Sadly he’s not the only one. I find Peggy Fleming’s commentary of Elaine’s skating from 81 -84 downright insulting. Dick wasn’t always a fan but he did have a special place in his heart for her
I believe Peggy had a bit of a bug up her butt because back in the day as a rising star, when Elaine was asked whom she admired, she said Scott Hamilton, or maybe Gordon McKellen. Not La Fleming, as was to be expected from every ladies' skater.

Any other association would have been beside themselves with ecstasy if they'd had an athlete like Elaine. She really was a skater for the era. Fresh, modern, dynamic, and exciting. I hated how they tried to throw princess packaging at her, and she wasn't having any of it.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
5,875
True. But, at least Wong understands how to report without putting people's noses out of joint. Jackie is considered a valuable media resource, too.
And Dave's acknowledged that Rocker Skating is a good resource. His perspective, which I tend to agree with, is that Jackie doesn't say or do anything that's critical of the USFS in an effort to continue his working relationship with the organization, which The Skating Lesson doesn't need to worry about.
 

essence_of_soy

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,093
And Dave's acknowledged that Rocker Skating is a good resource. His perspective, which I tend to agree with, is that Jackie doesn't say or do anything that's critical of the USFS in an effort to continue his working relationship with the organization, which The Skating Lesson doesn't need to worry about.
Wong has never marketed himself as anything other than reporting fact or analysis. Not podcasts packed with speculative nonsense, which seems to be TSL's trademark.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,072
On one hand, I agree with Dave: Jackie Wong could be more critical of USFS. On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that Jackie never set out to do investigative journalism, but rather observe-and-report type stuff. And that's what he's doing: reporting scoops USFSA doesn't report or before they announce things. He also doesn't suck up to USFSA nearly as much as Dave thinks - I've seen him question some things in a polite and respectful way, and he certainly doesn't write full-on propaganda like the organization itself does. Dave could easily have all the USFS supports and ins that Jackie has if he wasn't so nasty and controversial since USFSA is trying to engage younger fans.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
5,875
Wong has never marketed himself as anything other than reporting fact or analysis. Not podcasts packed with speculative nonsense, which seems to be TSL's trademark.
Do you watch many podcasts, cause I feel like that's what they're for. The Skating Lesson is just a skating forum with video & audio.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,194
Wong has never marketed himself as anything other than reporting fact or analysis. Not podcasts packed with speculative nonsense, which seems to be TSL's trademark.
Jackie is a great guy, but never goes outside the lines to talk about things.

On one hand, I agree with Dave: Jackie Wong could be more critical of USFS. On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that Jackie never set out to do investigative journalism, but rather observe-and-report type stuff. And that's what he's doing: reporting scoops USFSA doesn't report or before they announce things. He also doesn't suck up to USFSA nearly as much as Dave thinks - I've seen him question some things in a polite and respectful way, and he certainly doesn't write full-on propaganda like the organization itself does. Dave could easily have all the USFS supports and ins that Jackie has if he wasn't so nasty and controversial since USFSA is trying to engage younger fans.
Dave doesn’t want that stuff. He loves playing the outsider.

TSL does do analysis. Dave just did a great series on the +5/-5 system of scoring this season. Very analytical and he reads from the code. You should check it out.

Both are needed right now. Glad they are there to do what they do the best.
 

essence_of_soy

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,093
Jackie is a great guy, but never goes outside the lines to talk about things.

Dave doesn’t want that stuff. He loves playing the outsider.

TSL does do analysis. Dave just did a great series on the +5/-5 system of scoring this season. Very analytical and he reads from the code. You should check it out.

Both are needed right now. Glad they are there to do what they do the best.
There is a difference between constructive criticism and being a smug arsehole just for the sake of it. Lease has tremendous trouble understanding that separation.

I find it hilarious that anyone considers TSL anywhere near a professional news outlet.
 
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MAXSwagg

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,830
There is a difference between constructive criticism and being a smug arsehole just for the sake of it. Lease has tremendous trouble understanding that separation.

I find it hilarious that anyone considers TSL anywhere near a professional news outlet.
That’s true. TSL is not ang professional outlet. The same can be said about Wong, too, who mostly just tweets what’s happening at events. Pretty much anyone can do that.

Neither are really ground-breaking or anything. Both also say factually incorrect things, as well as put their own biased spin on things at times.
 

essence_of_soy

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,093
That’s true. TSL is not ang professional outlet. The same can be said about Wong, too, who mostly just tweets what’s happening at events. Pretty much anyone can do that.
When people say, 'Pretty much anyone can do that," my answer is, "Try spending eight hours at a stretch rink side, multi-tasking." It is laborious and difficult work at the best of times. Jackie Wong is a valuable resource for many people within the skating community.

I also remind you that Wong was a respected contributor and guest host with IceNetwork.
 
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skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,194
There is a difference between constructive criticism and being a smug arsehole just for the sake of it. Lease has tremendous trouble understanding that separation.

I find it hilarious that anyone considers TSL anywhere near a professional news outlet.
Did I say that TSL is a professional News outlet? No. But he does break stories, he does do good analysis, and he goes over the deep end with his opinions. It’s a blue plate special show.

You know that Ice Network was a US Figure Skating creation, right? It’s not like it was a professional independent journalism enterprise. Lots of things did not get covered there for a reason.
 

MAXSwagg

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,830
When people say, 'Pretty much anyone can do that," my answer is, "Try spending eight hours at a stretch rink side, multi-tasking." It is laborious and difficult work at the best of times. Jackie Wong is a valuable resource for many people within the skating community.

I also remind you that Wong was a respected contributor and guest host with IceNetwork.
Valuable only in terms of rapid access to information, not providing new or interesting information. I appreciate it, but no one asked him to do this. Is the opinion that it may be “laborious” supposed to make me feel awe-struck and sympathetic?

And no, I don’t need reminding.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,534
Jackie Wong is my go to source on Twitter when I want information real quick about scores and jumping passes without having to sit through 45 minutes of skating to know what happened. Like this morning I was able to read all the jump details of every Canadian lady at Nationals in about 15 seconds so I could quickly get up to speed. If Wong wasn't around, I would have either had to find the protocols on the internet and sift through them or watch all the performances. I can do that later, but I wanted to know the results straight away.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,194
TSL’s show on Safe Sport and John Coughlin. I’m sure there will be different takes on this. I find the guest very interesting and she sheds light on the process of Safe Sport and how far back the investigation on Coughlin went.

Plus - reality check for skating community too. We’ve got to be willing to have our sport policed the others, like gymnastics, now is.

https://youtu.be/TuzJqojCAV4
 

essence_of_soy

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,093
At this point the discussion should also be of Dave Lease and his reporting and the types of discussions he hosted on The Skating Lesson. At this point anything he has to say and any discussion he has, which he is framing to his own agenda, is redundant. Jonathan Beyer should disassociate himself from TSL; as should any skater or coach.
Lease's crazed narcissism suggests a man with deep-rooted self esteem issues, used as toxic rage to fuel TSL's vindictive agenda. He seems determined to make everyone hate skating as much as he hates himself.
 
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russell30

Member
Messages
45
Jackie Wong is my go to source on Twitter when I want information real quick about scores and jumping passes without having to sit through 45 minutes of skating to know what happened. Like this morning I was able to read all the jump details of every Canadian lady at Nationals in about 15 seconds so I could quickly get up to speed. If Wong wasn't around, I would have either had to find the protocols on the internet and sift through them or watch all the performances. I can do that later, but I wanted to know the results straight away.
Wong is great!!
 

CaliSteve

Well-Known Member
Messages
741
TSL’s show on Safe Sport and John Coughlin. I’m sure there will be different takes on this. I find the guest very interesting and she sheds light on the process of Safe Sport and how far back the investigation on Coughlin went.

Plus - reality check for skating community too. We’ve got to be willing to have our sport policed the others, like gymnastics, now is.

https://youtu.be/TuzJqojCAV4
I thought the episode was informative and gave good insight on Safeport's Investigative process, as alot of people dont know the whole process and have made alot of assumptions.

I also thought it was interesting when Jen spoke about her experience as a Ice Dancer and some of the things her own mother told her.
 

SkateFanBerlin

Well-Known Member
Messages
724
I was watching the show and suddenly a notice appeared - the episoe has been removed. Maybe best. Dave's guest didn't seem all that credible.
 

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