The Skating Lesson 2018/2019

[MK's Winter]

I thought the episode was informative and gave good insight on Safeport's Investigative process, as alot of people dont know the whole process and have made alot of assumptions.

I also thought it was interesting when Jen spoke about her experience as a Ice Dancer and some of the things her own mother told her.

I agree. I also find it ironic that the same people who complained about the Safe Sport investigation and how it played out are now even more mad it’s very legitimate. I am amazed on how far they went back, especially in regards that they spoke to Jen. Figure skating fans do scream and cry when it happens in gymnastics but do not want to face it when it happens in skating. And it happens in every sport.

Jen also gave a lot of insight on what it’s like to be a pair girl. Her mother telling her to shut up and do what she is told..... and I agree- parents and coaches contribute to these problems. In pairs, especially in the US, the guy is considered more important. Pair guys are few and far. I feel for female pair skaters.

I also find ironic that the same people who complain about Nikolai- refuse to shine that light elsewhere. The hypocrisy is real.

 

[Quintuple]

I got to watch the episode late last night before it was taken down. It was interesting to listen to, even if people sometimes have a really hard time articulating themselves, or not giving coded hints that are either meaningless or too exposed to something they're not supposed to say. I do think it's dangerous and sloppy to just record a chat and post it all up -- and now we see two videos taken down. Just like with social media in general, as Jen would say, we need to take a beat ... and think about the content of what we want to write/say before we actually put it out there for the world.

I do think it was ... almost informative. I just wish everyone could actually complete their thoughts and stories. There was a lot of interrupty energy that didn't actually result in complete thoughts. Though it's usually much worse in other episodes.

But upon reading two comments up ... I agree at least that there's a bit of bad showmanship that leads to a dangerous place (not resisting the urge to refer to some rumors that have been passed down through the game of telephone that have major implications). If the content of the videos were just controversial but not material that may need to be looked in to, then they would not have been taken down.

 

[puglover]

SafeSport, or an official spokesperson for them, should make a statement explaining, in general, their processes and procedures. I understand they need to be very protective of who ever has come forward to them but they need to get out in front of the "witch hunt" statements and clarify their role. As a society we are finally opening our eyes to the extent of abuse that has gone on for generations and the terrible affect it has had on so many. This is much bigger than a beloved skating figure, and goes to the great need we have to encourage victims to have faith in being listened to and professionals and those accused to trust vindictive, frivolous complaints will be identified and not taken further. I think this was going to get out, whether Christine Brennen and Dave put it out there or not. It happened in our section between a respected coach and his skater, young enough to be his daughter and a minor. Everyone knew, nothing was done! We don't want to go back to that.

 

[AnnM]

SafeSport, or an official spokesperson for them, should make a statement explaining, in general, their processes and procedures. I understand they need to be very protective of who ever has come forward to them but they need to get out in front of the "witch hunt" statements and clarify their role.

I think this would be a very reasonable response. A simple statement as to the timeline of the initial complaint, start of investigation, declaration of restricted status and interim suspension, along with a general statement as to why the classification changed, would hopefully go a long way in clarifying the process. They could do all this without identifying the complaining party(ies).

 

[Icetigger]

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[chachacha]

Lease's crazed narcissism suggests a man with deep-rooted self esteem issues, used as toxic rage to fuel TSL's vindictive agenda. He seems determined to make everyone hate skating as much as he hates himself.

The skating lesson/ David Lease does nothing for the skating community. He and his minions bully and do not offer constructive feedback they bully and criticize the athletes, coaches and those involved in the sport. They produce garbage

 

[rustymuffins]

Dave was foolish to conduct this interview with "Jen" so close to John Coughlin's death. It convinces me a lot that my suspicions of what has gone here are likely correct- that there has been a collusion between a witness(es) or complainant(s) (who should have been under the same code of confidentiality as Coughlin) and the press, and that together they have been running an unjust campaign against John Coughlin, with the intent of bolstering their case by soliciting further complaints against him, including the multiple statements made by Dave Lease that have indirectly asserted guilt against John Coughlin, and the framing of this investigation in terms of what has happened in gymnastics, and also additional comments that Dave Lease has made regarding this case, some of which are no longer available on the Skating Lesson timelines. Dave for example made a number of statements on this timeline (some now deleted) of background on the investigation, and that he had knowledge of the nature of the allegations, prior to John Coughlin's death, which suggest that he was getting information either from a witness or complainant (or even possibly someone at Safesport itself). That is what Safesport should also be now looking at and something in to which there should be inquiry. That would be completely unethical, and in which case there should now definitely be an inquiry in to whether "Jen" (and/or others) and TSL (and/or others, including Christine Brennan) have any degree of culpability for John Coughlin's death.

Attacking the accusers?? This post is entirely inappropriate and should be deleted immediately.

 

[Icetigger]

..........

 

[Willin]

Dave was foolish to conduct this interview with "Jen" so close to John Coughlin's death. It convinces me a lot that my suspicions of what has gone here are likely correct- that there has been a collusion between a witness(es) or complainant(s) (who should have been under the same code of confidentiality as Coughlin) and the press, and that together they have been running an unjust campaign against John Coughlin, with the intent of bolstering their case by soliciting further complaints against him, including the multiple statements made by Dave Lease that have indirectly asserted guilt against John Coughlin, and the framing of this investigation in terms of what has happened in gymnastics, and also additional comments that Dave Lease has made regarding this case, some of which are no longer available on the Skating Lesson timelines. Dave for example made a number of statements on this timeline (some now deleted) of background on the investigation, and that he had knowledge of the nature of the allegations, prior to John Coughlin's death, which suggest that he was getting information either from a witness or complainant (or even possibly someone at Safesport itself). That is what Safesport should also be now looking at and something in to which there should be inquiry. That would be completely unethical, and in which case there should now definitely be an inquiry in to whether "Jen" (and/or others) and TSL (and/or others, including Christine Brennan) have any degree of culpability for John Coughlin's death.

Holy **** this post. So much wtf here. Collusion? Trying to further hurt his image?
Look, I find Dave Lease as annoying and sometimes reprehensible as most people on this thread, but all he really did wrong here was to seek validation from the trolls that follow him by stirring the pot in a way that would get them to worship him more (eg. "look at how smart I am for reporting this first before anyone else") and the timing of the interview with Jen. He is not culpable for Coughlin's death.
He did not need to collude with or get information from witnesses or complainants. According to Mervin Tran's post there had been many rumors about this floating around the upper eschilons of pairs skating well before the SafeSport investigation started - maybe even years before. Dave, knowing Meagan Duhamel, may have known more details of these rumors from her circles of gossip and chose not to share them or the rumors until he knew the time was right. As Mervin said there are many false rumors spread about top skaters and Dave may have thought this was one, or Meagan may have thought that was well until the SafeSport investigation was announced. Based on Mervin's post it sounds like the accuser(s) were/are top pairs(?) skaters as well. Since most higher profile skaters on the scene right now don't have a high opinion of Dave I don't think they'd be willing to cooperate with him on such a detailed collusion plot.

 

[CaliSteve]

Whether what I have described myself as thinking likely to have happened happened is something I am not clear on, but for me there is now sufficient evidence to suggest that it may well have done. I would like that investigated. Witnesses, complainants and staff of safesport should not be colluding with the press in my opinion, with regard to a case, in order to influence its outcome. There is enough evidence now to suggest that this may well have happened. Not necessarily "Jen" but maybe someone. If you disagree you disagree. I'm fine with that. Accusers can be abusers (as can witnesses and safesport staff), but I would not generally even dare suggest such a thing. It is only Dave Lease's reporting and commentary, and the forms of comments he left unchallegened/removed on this Facebook page, and now this interview with "Jen" as an immediate response to a tragic outcome, that has convinced me that this may well be the case with regard to this particular case. Otherwise, it would not have even crossed my mind.

Also I would want this matter properly investigated; and only properly investigated; and in a manner that would be fair to all parties; and not in a way that devalues or undermines the original complaints.

As usual your digging for something that isnt there. Your obsession with Dave/TSL is clouding your judgement. I find it a bid disturbing that you are exploiting the recent events by turning it into a Dave/TSL conspiracy.

 

[CaliSteve]

The skating lesson/ David Lease does nothing for the skating community. He and his minions bully and do not offer constructive feedback they bully and criticize the athletes, coaches and those involved in the sport. They produce garbage

Then dont watch the show.

 

[Icetigger]

......

 

[MK's Winter]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-coughlin-death-sexual-misconduct/2632092002/

Jonn Coughling was facing 3 counts of sexual misconduct. 2 of which were minors.

 

[Icetigger]

........

 

[Willin]

@Icetigger Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. People who aren't supposed to leak things leak things all the time. Just look at the presidency.

 

[Icetigger]

...........

 

[starrynight]

I think everyone should be concerned if TSL was able to obtain information that was meant to be confidential and start leaking and teasing it out on social media.

What does that also mean for the privacy and concerns of minors/accusers in such a sensitive and delicate situation? If you know that there’s a leak somewhere who will get on the phone to TSL and start spilling?

 

[Icetigger]

.........

 

[Prancer]

Liability works both ways--if you accuse people or organizations of unethical or illegal behavior, they can sue you, too.

My suggestion is that people tone down the accusations unless they have actual evidence and sufficient legal knowledge to know what to do with it.

 

[Sparks]

AGAIN, the preliminary investigation by Safe Sport was on the internet before Christine and Dave spoke of it.

 

[Tavi]

I think everyone should be concerned if TSL was able to obtain information that was meant to be confidential and start leaking and teasing it out on social media.

What does that also mean for the privacy and concerns of minors/accusers in such a sensitive and delicate situation? If you know that there’s a leak somewhere who will get on the phone to TSL and start spilling?

(1) The names of people under investigation by SafeSport are published on their website for anyone to see. See here:

https://safesport.org/userviolations/search

(2) According to the woman Dave interviewed last night, when a coach is suspended, a notification email is sent to all PSA coaches (that is, all coaches registered with USFS).

 

[starrynight]

(1) The names of people under investigation by SafeSport are published on their website for anyone to see. See here:

https://safesport.org/userviolations/search

(2) According to the woman Dave interviewed last night, when a coach is suspended, a notification email is sent to all PSA coaches (that is, all coaches registered with USFS).

I know that. All that’s fine. Everythjng that’s in the press releases is fine. I was more referencing the other details that people have mentioned above that were specific details of the investigation that aren’t meant to public knowledge. This isn’t about wanting to cover up a complaint. Just more about wondering where these details are coming from. This isn’t about trying to protect the accused - just more about the fact there seem to be leaks. And maybe not even from the body itself but from other individuals who know - and there would be.

 

[Prancer]

icetigger, it is expressly against the rules of this board to delete posts after they have generated responses. I know why you did it, but please don't do it again.

 

[Tavi]

I know that. All that’s fine. Everythjng that’s in the press releases is fine. I was more referencing the other details that people have mentioned above that were specific details of the investigation that aren’t meant to public knowledge. This isn’t about wanting to cover up a complaint. Just more about wondering where these details are coming from. This isn’t about trying to protect the accused - just more about the fact there seem to be leaks. And maybe not even from the body itself but from other individuals who know - and there would be.

Since I’m not really sure what details you mean, I guess I can’t respond to that.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

In a break from the sad mess, Dave interviews two of the women in the new docu about a group of adult skaters. Amazing ladies, listening now with my wife and I am so inspired by them. Dave is as charming as he can be.

 

[CaliSteve]

In a break from the sad mess, Dave interviews two of the women in the new docu about a group of adult skaters. Amazing ladies, listening now with my wife and I am so inspired by them.

Did Wendy start to skate at 50?

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Did Wendy start to skate at 50?

She did. Isabella at 40.

 

[MK's Winter]

I know that. All that’s fine. Everythjng that’s in the press releases is fine. I was more referencing the other details that people have mentioned above that were specific details of the investigation that aren’t meant to public knowledge. This isn’t about wanting to cover up a complaint. Just more about wondering where these details are coming from. This isn’t about trying to protect the accused - just more about the fact there seem to be leaks. And maybe not even from the body itself but from other individuals who know - and there would be.

Skating is a very small insular world. Mervin Tran even stated that he had heard the rumors. TSL stated that a former athlete brought the interim measure to his attention. One of the complaintants could have confided in a friend, who told a friend, who told a friend. Safe sport cannot leak these things. Especially with this kind of sensitive issue- they could be criminally liable.

 

[starrynight]

Since I’m not really sure what details you mean, I guess I can’t respond to that.

People have been dropping hints as to the identity of the accuser and I think that is cause for concern.

 

[Tavi]

People have been dropping hints as to the identity of the accuser and I think that is cause for concern.

I haven’t seen that, but I agree it’s cause for concern.