The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[Andora]

Agreed, and maybe it would push S&K to stay in another 4 years which I would also love.

I see you're choosing violence today.

I'd be shocked if they stay another four years. Not when there's teams with better politics coming up behind them.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I think the real issue with S/K staying another four years is that Nikita’s back doesn’t want to stay another four years.

 

[clairecloutier]

I don't think S/K can physically make it another four years. But if they did, please let them get new choreographers, if nothing else.

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

I don't think S/K can physically make it another four years. But if they did, please let them get new choreographers, if nothing else.

I think if they continue, even just for a year or two, they would dump Zhulin. They realize he is a sinking ship. They only stayed with him since it is too late/makes no sense, to change this close to the Games.

 

[VGThuy]

How many other people here think that Bobrova/Soloviev from 2016-2018 were stronger than Sinitsina/Katsalapov are now but we all have to pretend S/K are supposed to be rivals to P/C and that the likes of H/D, C/B, G/P, and even G/F need to be perfect and S/K have to have major errors for them to beat them?

 

[sap5]

How many other people here think that Bobrova/Soloviev from 2016-2018 were stronger than Sinitsina/Katsalapov are now but we all have to pretend S/K are supposed to be rivals to P/C and that the likes of H/D, C/B, G/P, and even G/F need to be perfect and S/K have to have major errors for them to beat them?

Well, do we need to pretend that (some of) those teams need to be perfect to beat the current version of P/C?

 

[VGThuy]

Well, do we need to pretend that (some of) those teams need to be perfect to beat the current version of P/C?

It's clear that they do when you actually watch P/C and compare them to others. It's not the same case with Sinitsina/Katsalapov of 2022.

 

[Taso]

How many other people here think that Bobrova/Soloviev from 2016-2018 were stronger than Sinitsina/Katsalapov are now but we all have to pretend S/K are supposed to be rivals to P/C and that the likes of H/D, C/B, G/P, and even G/F need to be perfect and S/K have to have major errors for them to beat them?

I dont think I would go that far myself, because the previous 3 seasons S&K were better than BobSol ever were IMO. It is tricky because they are capable of better but injured. This feels more like DomShabs in 2010 honestly.

 

[VGThuy]

I dont think I would go that far myself, because the previous 3 seasons S&K were better than BobSol ever were IMO. It is tricky because they are capable of better but injured. This feels more like DomShabs in 2010 honestly.

Technically, that may be true, but I do think 2016-18 BobSols were better than what SinKats are now. I also think BobSols' Anna Karenina FD was better choreographed than anything I've ever seen SinKats do.

 

[Andora]

How many other people here think that Bobrova/Soloviev from 2016-2018 were stronger than Sinitsina/Katsalapov are now but we all have to pretend S/K are supposed to be rivals to P/C and that the likes of H/D, C/B, G/P, and even G/F need to be perfect and S/K have to have major errors for them to beat them?

I couldn't hit the like button fast enough for this, however...

I dont think I would go that far myself, because the previous 3 seasons S&K were better than BobSol ever were IMO. It is tricky because they are capable of better but injured. This feels more like DomShabs in 2010 honestly.

I think Taso has it more correct. I will definitely admit I enjoyed B&S much more than I have enjoyed S&K, ever.

More than anything, I continue to wish he and Elena had managed to stay a team, and wonder how they could have turned out.

 

[Taso]

Technically, that may be true, but I do think 2016-18 BobSols were better than what SinKats are now. I also think BobSols' Anna Karenina FD was better choreographed than anything I've ever seen SinKats do.

To be clear I liked all their FDs that quad, and waaaaay more than SinKats fd this year

 

[VGThuy]

Btw, imagine where Guignard/Fabbri would have been these past seasons if the level calling differentials in points were the same as they were at the last Olympic cycle or even the two before that? They'd be scoring even better based on TES.

 

[thvu]

How many other people here think that Bobrova/Soloviev from 2016-2018 were stronger than Sinitsina/Katsalapov are now but we all have to pretend S/K are supposed to be rivals to P/C and that the likes of H/D, C/B, G/P, and even G/F need to be perfect and S/K have to have major errors for them to beat them?

Aside from P&C, all of the dance teams have deficiencies in their skating, so I really think it's about who has the least? Who has the highest bar for potential? IMO, if we are talking about the dance field, here's how I see it - We have P&C above everyone. If they skate clean, no question they are in 1st place.

Then, it's HubDon and SinKats in the next tier. HubDon have issues with being sloppy. They've cleaned up their skating alot in recent years, but I still see mismatched lines, balance checks, and losing track of one another. SinKats can be sloppy, but not for reasons for line or unison, but rather, they can get out of control. Too much speed. Out of control edges/curves. Their twizzles and one-foot steps can be messy, but they have stronger spins, lifts, and step sequences than HubDon. The choreographic elements are kind of a toss-up. Both teams have issues with execution and conception.

Everyone else kind of bunches up below them. I see ChoBat as the top of the next tier purely because of their choregraphic elements. With the rules changes giving so much GOE to the three choreographic elements, a team like ChoBat can really rise above more technically proficient teams like HubDon and Sinkats. Their elements are innovative and well-performed - their choreographic slide this season is perhaps the best choreographic element we've seen. GuiFab have strong elements, but lack the charisma and choreographic "wow" elements of the top teams, meanwhile GillPoir are the weakest skaters of the bunch, but always try to have innovation in their elements. How the Team Event RD played out, it made sense to me that Gilles & Poirier came out in 4th. It's what the skating dictated.

In regards to SinKats only getting 2nd to HubDon because of Nikita's mistake, and still winning PCS - I don't really think HubDon did anything special in the RD performance wise relative to SinKats. SinKats would have been at 87+ without Nikita's mistake, which is more or less on par with how scoring has been this season. They had a stronger Midnight Blues than HubDon, which would have made up the scoring difference if both teams skated clean. It's honestly a close competition to me between the two.

What we really should be talking about is what the hell the Canadian judge is up to, placing HubDon 3rd, SinKats 1st, and GillPoir 2nd. The scores for these teams are pretty much all in the 85ish range from that judge, which is just absolutely absurd. GillPoir's skating was far beneath the top two in the Team RD.

 

[thvu]

Btw, imagine where Guignard/Fabbri would have been these past seasons if the level calling differentials in points were the same as they were at the last Olympic cycle or even the two before that? They'd be scoring even better based on TES.

They'd be this quad's HubDon, finding themselves in medal position because of levels.

 

[Dobre]

Update on Stepanova/Bukin: they are in Novogorsk, leaving for Beijing on Feb, 6th.

We need that Backstreet Boys RD in the event.

 

[VGThuy]

We need that Backstreet Boys RD in the event.

Watching their RD at Euros, I was most upset that they got rid of the part where Ivan also swings his hips to the music with Alexandra.

 

[Mayra]

What we really should be talking about is what the hell the Canadian judge is up to, placing HubDon 3rd, SinKats 1st, and GillPoir 2nd. The scores for these teams are pretty much all in the 85ish range from that judge, which is just absolutely absurd. GillPoir's skating was far beneath the top two in the Team RD.

Blatantly ridiculous.

With G/P being Canada's only real hope for an individual medal, and ice dance politiks being what it is, I get the need to push your athlete when it's close. This was not close. This was very obvious bias.

 

[sap5]

It's clear that they do when you actually watch P/C and compare them to others. It's not the same case with Sinitsina/Katsalapov of 2022.

I don’t think it’s so clear, tbh. Mainly because I don’t think P/C skate as cleanly as they used to, so they should be scoring much closer to the teams under them.

 

[Andora]

I don’t think it’s so clear, tbh. Mainly because I don’t think P/C skate as cleanly as they used to, so they should be scoring much closer to the teams under them.

Blasphemous though it might be, I don't think P/C have ever been the most consistent/clean skaters skaters. It just hasn't mattered save when V&M were back.

Personally, I think they're still well ahead of other teams, but not just because they're that good. No team has really stepped up to challenge them in any meaningful way. Their closest competitors have stumbled either due to injury (S&K) or various issues (H&D).

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

How many other people here think that Bobrova/Soloviev from 2016-2018 were stronger than Sinitsina/Katsalapov are now but we all have to pretend S/K are supposed to be rivals to P/C and that the likes of H/D, C/B, G/P, and even G/F need to be perfect and S/K have to have major errors for them to beat them?

I respectfully disagree on Bobrova & Soloviev. I had a soft spot for them, and am not a fan of S&k, but Bobrova's posture issues, and the much greater speed of S&K I think put them ahead as the stronger team of those two, even if it still might be close.

B&S did not get the political support at home S&K got by a long ways though. It seems the Russian fed always kind of hoped it would be someone else as their #1 and they were just stuck with B&S since all the teams they kept holding out hope for (including Sinitsina & Katsalapov who never really got it fully together that quad) just weren't panning up, splitting up, whatever. I do feel for them as they had a hard situation, and were a rare skater/team who did not get the boosting top Russian skaters usually get being from such a politically strong country. That must have been super frustrating for them. And missing both each of 2014, 2015, and 2016 worlds for various reasons really hurt their momentum for the remainder of the quad. Each time losing a bit more ground to teams like the Shibutanis, Weaver & Poje, Chock & Bates, and others. A lot of people forget with how the competition played out, and who was already missing, there is an excellent very high chance they would have won 2014 worlds had they been able to compete. That doesn't guarantee success straight up to the next Olympics, as Capellini & Lanotte show, but it also would have helped their confidence and early standing in the quad a lot. I read some of his comments after the 2018 Olympics and he sounded pretty sad and bitter overall. I could understand it, and I felt bad for them reading that. Atleast they have their Olympic Team gold and silvers though. They do both seem like really nice people.

 

[PRlady]

I stared blearily at the protocols last night and noticed that S/K's big advantage over H/D was the pattern, I think it was about a 1.5 point difference. I just can't see the keypoints closely enough to judge that, both teams seemed really good at the Midnight Blues compared to everyone else. And it's too late for H/D to do something to get better at the pattern, maybe that's the best they can do, but if S/K truly are better there then at least I can accept that scoring.

 

[allezfred]

What we really should be talking about is what the hell the Canadian judge is up to, placing HubDon 3rd, SinKats 1st, and GillPoir 2nd.

?? ? ??

 

[I❤️Marina&Sergai]

Update on Stepanova/Bukin: they are in Novogorsk, leaving for Beijing on Feb, 6th.

I hope they are fit, I feel like is a shame they never got the chance to go for a team medal.

 

[I❤️Marina&Sergai]

I dont think I would go that far myself, because the previous 3 seasons S&K were better than BobSol ever were IMO. It is tricky because they are capable of better but injured. This feels more like DomShabs in 2010 honestly.

In 2018/19 S& K had that fantastic tango and I enjoyed their Singing in the Rain, Victoria especially shone in those performances but I don’t think this years material showcases them to their best.

 

[sap5]

Blasphemous though it might be, I don't think P/C have ever been the most consistent/clean skaters skaters. It just hasn't mattered save when V&M were back.

Personally, I think they're still well ahead of other teams, but not just because they're that good. No team has really stepped up to challenge them in any meaningful way. Their closest competitors have stumbled either due to injury (S&K) or various issues (H&D).

I just haven’t been impressed by P/C’s skating this season, especially their FD. I liked it at first, but I expected improvements from the start of the season. I still see mismatched lines, far apart skating, basic lifts with ugly entrances….I honestly don’t know what happened to them. They don’t look anything like their “Duet” selves this season, and I think they’ve been getting a lot of undeserved GOE.

 

[Seerek]

What we really should be talking about is what the hell the Canadian judge is up to, placing HubDon 3rd, SinKats 1st, and GillPoir 2nd. The scores for these teams are pretty much all in the 85ish range from that judge, which is just absolutely absurd. GillPoir's skating was far beneath the top two in the Team RD.

Interestingly, the Italian Judge still put G/P ahead of G/F.

 

[skatingguy]

?? ? ??

If there is a deal the Russian judge didn't hold up their end of the bargain, because they put Gilles/Poirier 4th.

 

[allezfred]

If there is a deal the Russian judge didn't hold up their end of the bargain, because they put Gilles/Poirier 4th.

It's a traditional Canadian Jean Senft style deal.

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

Interestingly, the Italian Judge still put G/P ahead of G/F.

The Italian fed don't care or push for them much, so that doesn't surprise me. They are good enough, they would have better results if they did.

 

[Dobre]

Then, it's HubDon and SinKats in the next tier.

Basics-wise, yes; but a healthy & clean SinKats is not what we have here.

Their (P&C's) closest competitors have stumbled either due to injury (S&K) or various issues (H&D).

I feel like this statement ignores the obvious, which is that P&C have avoided head-to-head competition--for two years--with the team the judges were pushing to be their major competition. S&K and H&D have for sure taken a few nose dives, but I don't think we should pretend this is all on them. They should have had two GPFs, two Europeans, and two Worlds to take a swing at P&C's scores; and none of those head-to-heads happened.

Also, if P&C run away with this event (which they probably will); I think no small credit should be given to the fact that they have shown up this season with a great RD.