The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

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lauravvv said:
Okay, thanks for the correction/explanation.

It was not rewarded so well in the GOE, though (where such things are normally rewarded). Both Shibutanis and Hubbell/Donohue received a considerably higher GOE for their patterns.

Also, what you are saying is a bit of a surprise as on TV/video both Shibutanis and H/D's patterns look bigger than C/B's. I know that the impression on TV is often different than live, though.
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And much deeper.
 
chapis said:
well, Maia and Alex were the only team with standing ovation, so I think people in the arena were impressed with them.

Tanith says that the Shibs made changes to the FD, including music.
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Shibs are BY FAR the audience favorites. The crowd loves them in a way that it does not love Chock/Bates or Hubbell/Donohue. The audience really enjoyed C/B, and I got the sense that everyone knows H/D's history and sentimentally wants to see them get out of third place - but it LOOOOVES the Shibs. Shibs would have had to fall on their faces not to get a standing ovation - the audience WANTS to stand for them, whereas I think the other two teams need lights-out kind of performances to get the same reaction.
 
barbarafan said:
It depends on how you look at it. There are certain advantages while they are training in Russia...I think they have a lot of ice access there. From things Kaitlyn and Andrew have said they stay in dorms and on their ISU bio they had 50hrs a week training. You can't knock that. I am sure there may be drawbacks as well but certainly they seem to be stronger and more resilient now.
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Novogorsk is one of the best training centers even in the world, in my opinion.
It’s a closed center for the best athletes, where they have access to whatever they may need there.
Russian rhythmic gimnasticks team lives and train there all the time (and Irina Viner, the head of the Federation and a wife of a well known Russian businessmen always chooses the best for her girls ;)). When Ilinykh and Katsalapov moved to Morozov in 2011, Novogorsk became their main rink, where they trained during the season (and usually went to HJ during the off season). I guess that Morozov still has some connections there , so he uses that rink when he is in Moscow with his teams.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing the Shibs' FD. They certainly nailed the SD.

I'm also curious to see how the team event pans out at the Olympics. It has crossed my mind that V&M could have more favour in the team event because subconsciously, the judges will see them as representing one of the Gold Medal contending teams. P&C will not be competing for a medal there, so why "waste" good scores on them? It will be fascinating to see how the psychology of it works. And if it has an impact on the individual competition... a win could give V&M back lost momentum.

But the Shibs could also mess with Canada's team chances by winning the SD outright. If I was Team USA, I'd put the Shibs in the SD where they can win, and either C&B or H&D for the FD to rest the Shibs. Whichever team skates is likely to finish 3rd anyway.
 
millyskate said:
I'm looking forward to seeing the Shibs' FD. They certainly nailed the SD.

I'm also curious to see how the team event pans out at the Olympics. It has crossed my mind that V&M could have more favour in the team event because subconsciously, the judges will see them as representing one of the Gold Medal contending teams. P&C will not be competing for a medal there, so why "waste" good scores on them? It will be fascinating to see how the psychology of it works. And if it has an impact on the individual competition... a win could give V&M back lost momentum.

But the Shibs could also mess with Canada's team chances by winning the SD outright. If I was Team USA, I'd put the Shibs in the SD where they can win, and either C&B or H&D for the FD to rest the Shibs. Whichever team skates is likely to finish 3rd anyway.
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But if it's not a "waste" and they actually deserve good scores ? :confused: Why would judges put V/M ahead of them for the sake of it if they do a better SD ? (I'd get the "politics" of it, but not right obviously)
By the way, I wondered if V/M placed 1st at the Team event 4 years ago would have that changed something for Canada (like a Team gold medal) ?

Shibs are doing the SD in the teams event, they'll have to refuse for that not to happen (and as Scott said : "you want to skate as many time as you want : it's the Olympics !). I think it's not as psychologically crazy for Ice Dance to do the team event (it can be but some singles really lost it at the individual...).

However : a country would actually want one team ahead of the others, to make them the biggest contender. I'm guessing USFS would want Shibs to do both : "It's by far our strongest team, they'll medal, etc". Otherwise it messes up with people's head. Now, we might get our answer tomorrow, because H/D have a huge vehicle for their FD and I'm hoping for anyone to be spot on because I really want to see the "judges" scoring.
 
Anyasnake said:
However : a country would actually want one team ahead of everyone, to make them the biggest contender. I'm guessing USFS would want Shibs to do both : "It's by far our strongest team, they'll medal". Otherwise it messes up with people's head. Now, we might get our answer tomorrow, because H/D have a huge vehicle for their FD and I'm hoping for anyone to be spot on because I really want to see the "judges" scoring.
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Yes, tomorrow we will know it but I think USFS would want send the message that US have two strong teams. I mean, everyone know that Shibs are bronze medal contenders, and they already showed it, so giving similar or major scores to H/D send the message that both are strong and bronze medal candidates. This does not degrade the Shibs, but favors H/D.
 
Given the makeup of the U.S. ladies Oly team (no clear stars/consistency), I am guessing they will use 2 ladies, and most likely 2 men, and only 1 dance team. Which sucks, given the depth of U.S. dance. But I suspect the Shibs, barring disaster tomorrow, will do both segments.
 
Debbie S said:
Given the makeup of the U.S. ladies Oly team (no clear stars/consistency), I am guessing they will use 2 ladies, and most likely 2 men, and only 1 dance team. Which sucks, given the depth of U.S. dance. But I suspect the Shibs, barring disaster tomorrow, will do both segments.
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2 men ? I don't know... Nathan has the potential against a Hanyu or a Shoma, but then...
2 ladies I think for sure (Something like Mirai SP and Bradie LP).
But yep we'll see for the FD (SD has to be a lock).
 
Debbie S said:
Given the makeup of the U.S. ladies Oly team (no clear stars/consistency), I am guessing they will use 2 ladies, and most likely 2 men, and only 1 dance team. Which sucks, given the depth of U.S. dance. But I suspect the Shibs, barring disaster tomorrow, will do both segments.
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Bradie seems pretty consistent, but yes, the star factor is missing.
 
chapis said:
Bradie seems pretty consistent, but yes, the star factor is missing.
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Bradie has been consistent this season, but B internationals and GPs, even Nats, are not the Olys. Her only major int'l so far was Jr Worlds last year and she didn't skate that well. Not sure USFS would risk putting her in such a high-pressure situation. I'm guessing Bradie does the SP and Mirai the FS.

I don't think Nathan and Raf want him doing both segments in the TE. I assume Nathan will do the SP and probably Adam the FS.
 
Ka3sha said:
Novogorsk is one of the best training centers even in the world, in my opinion.
It’s a closed center for the best athletes, where they have access to whatever they may need there.
Russian rhythmic gimnasticks team lives and train there all the time (and Irina Viner, the head of the Federation and a wife of a well known Russian businessmen always chooses the best for her girls ;)). When Ilinykh and Katsalapov moved to Morozov in 2011, Novogorsk became their main rink, where they trained during the season (and usually went to HJ during the off season). I guess that Morozov still has some connections there , so he uses that rink when he is in Moscow with his teams.
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Thank-you Ka3sha...It seemed to me that last yr. Kaitlyn and Andrew embraced every facet of their new situation..with excitement and gung ho..If they are not training in Russia it is not in anyway because they did not enjoy the experience. Last yr. Morozov had to be in Russia re: his new wife's schooling plus finding partners for her and for his daughter plus training and choreographing. He may have been able to organize staying in the US more this yr.
 
I would imagine the moving around would have been expensive though. All those flights plus paying for accommodation in both Moscow and New Jersey. I'm sure from an economics standpoint, staying in New Jersey is more cost effective.
 
Start order for FD at U.S. Nationals :

1.Klopstock/Schedl
2.Bain/Altukhov
3.Reynolds/Reynolds
4.Biechler/Dodge
5.Pogrebinsky/Benoit
6.Aldridge/Eaton
7.Manta/Johnson
8.McNamara/Carpenter
9.Parsons/Parsons
10.Hawayek/Baker
11.Shibutani/Shibutani
12.Hubbell/Donohue
13.Chock/Bates
 
chapis said:
Yes, tomorrow we will know it but I think USFS would want send the message that US have two strong teams. I mean, everyone know that Shibs are bronze medal contenders, and they already showed it, so giving similar or major scores to H/D send the message that both are strong and bronze medal candidates. This does not degrade the Shibs, but favors H/D.
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Hmm in my opinion internationally, both H/D and Shibs are both bronze medal contenders based on the SD result from 2017 worlds. The Shibs winning Nationals here in my opinion does not change that. Olympics bronze medal will come down to TES.
 
topaz said:
Olympics bronze medal will come down to TES.
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Now that we know who's on the Olympic technical panel, I do think it could come down to PCS. Hilary Selby was technical controller at 2016 Worlds where it was raining level 4's for many of the top 10 teams, so it could potentially be the PCS mark making the difference at the Olympics.
 
MelDee said:
Now that we know who's on the Olympic technical panel, I do think it could come down to PCS. Hilary Selby was technical controller at 2016 Worlds where it was raining level 4's for many of the top 10 teams, so it could potentially be the PCS mark making the difference at the Olympics.
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I think the panel is going to be really be strict on TES, it's what's we've seen all season and last season. The teams are going to have to hit the key points of elements and timing.
 
Conclusion : don't mess your short dance guys.. And Shibs are definitely going to do their short at the team event.
 
Anyasnake said:
US nationals final results :

1.Hubbell/Donohue 197.12
2.Shibutani/Shibutani 196.93
3.Chock/Bates 196.60
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With Chock/Bates winning the FD....still so exciting about the three US teams being close to each other and it coming down to how they skate competition-by-competition.
 
barbarafan said:
Their twizzles were lowkey boring..c/b
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There is a lack of speed and it's very hesitant, this year more than ever. The commentators (all of them) keep pointing that out. I wonder if they feel the spectrum of Worlds 2017... because in intl competition, they don't even get 8 points, more like 7.80. Compared to H/D who often get 8.31 or 8.40 that's too much left on the table.
 
Anyasnake said:
There is a lack of speed and it's very hesitant, this year more than ever. The commentators (all of them) keep pointing that out. I wonder if they feel the spectrum of Worlds 2017... because in intl competition, they don't even get 8 points, more like 7.80. Compared to H/D who often get 8.31 or 8.40 that's too much left on the table.
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It's a "better safe than sorry" type of twizzles. I can't blame them though, it did cost them so much in Helsinki. But if you want to get on an Olympic podium, you just can't play it that safe. OTOH, their FD is improving in smoothness. I may not like the musical editing (or the music altogether tbh) but they look more connected to it than to any previous FD since American in Paris. It also is less reliant on key acrobatics lifts which, while still being impressive, are much better integrated whithin the choreography.
That being said, I still think H/D's FD should have won on the night but I'm just thrilled about the PCS they received hoping it'll send a message to the int'l judges. I'm so happy they finally withstood the pressure when the door was left wide opened by the Shibs. They've worked so hard to be able to get to that type of mindset, controlling the over excitement during the performance. I just hoped they cracked it here. They need to keep working on the TES for their short though and narrow the gap with the Shibs.
As for the Shibs, I'm puzzled about what's going on here. They have a rock solid SD highly appreciated by the judges which should give them the confidence boost to shine in the FD but the last two competitions have proven the opposite. Their FD is not a strong vehicule but skated perfectly like in Skate America, it still earned them a career best. After GPF, they went back and tweaked it but I'm not sure the new music edits help to make it more cohesive. That middle section just falls flat and doesn't successfully set up the grand finale introduced by the twizzles. I'm also surprised how they cannot manage to ramp up their energy to end up on a big bang. I think they improved a lot in the SD in that area, they skate bigger, faster and keep up the energy all the way through, yet they're a bit back to their old self in the FD struggling with the performance aspect.
Tonight was H/D's night though without a doubt and seeing the faces a team 2 and 3rd, everyone is gonna come so hungry at the Olympics. This season is exhausting and I'm not the one skating :D
 
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