Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir, #46 : Until the End of Time

[NinjaTurtles]

I think the choreography and subtlety of the death is very smooth and well done with the repeated collapsing. Pretending to fall is always harder than actually falling; Tessa does it gracefully and mournfully. Unfortunately, sometimes the brushstroke is beautiful, but it doesn't fit or enhance the painting itself.

I'm intrigued by the 'gore' statement. Would love to see V/M go darker with it.

 

[Goody2shoes]

I had more time to rewatch MR a couple of times. Strong opening into Roxanne music cut. Only thing I thought didnt have much impact was when the choreography in the fast violins piece & chorus. Took some time to look at some of their old programs.

Came to one part in Umbrellas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRjqNbM9RHM
(At minute 3:11-3:40) and matched the music to their ACI FD music part (around 1:36-2:02) from https://youtu.be/UotQoW81_BQ. Somehow parts of choreography in old fits better than new.

Sorry I don't own software or not computer savvy to superimpose that choreography to music. If you guys can do it, you'll see what I mean.

I actually love the music cut towards the ending. I'm also in favour of a smoother death pose from the repeated collapsing movement. I just thought after all that "dying" movement and Scott's cradling Tessa spin, it looked (to me) hmmm kind of awkward that Scott stood her up before Tessa did her death pose. Tessa's character is dying so wouldn't it be more logical if it was cradling to continuous into something kneeling with Tessa in his arms? or something along that line...

 

[kittysk8ts]

I had more time to rewatch MR a couple of times. Strong opening into Roxanne music cut. Only thing I thought didnt have much impact was when the choreography in the fast violins piece & chorus. Took some time to look at some of their old programs.

Came to one part in Umbrellas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRjqNbM9RHM
(At minute 3:11-3:40) and matched the music to their ACI FD music part (around 1:36-2:02) from https://youtu.be/UotQoW81_BQ. Somehow parts of choreography in old fits better than new.

Hmmmm. Interesting. It's just that one is a tango a more passionate love and one is about young love. So, I am not sure.

 

[martyross]

you have a point about the death part, Goody2shoes. i see it this way: even though we think we are seeing Statine dying, and in fact it is what is happening, at the same time it is a concept showed through dance moves, artistically and not realistically. its like two faces of a coin. on one side there's cinematic reality (they show what happens in the movie). on the other they're expressing the tragedy of it on an abstract level (as in modern ballet). this contradiction allows them to do the unrealistic moves that you mentioned. Tessa can't move that way as a dying person, but she can if we take it as an artistic rendition of her death.
it seems they're going to change it, so what we'll see in February may be totally different. as it is now, i think its in the spirit of the movie. Satine coughs while singing Come what may on the stage, but her collapse right after the final curtain is still kind of unexpected. so everything suddenly ends in nothing. all the chaos heads nowhere.
now that i think of it, the Come what may chorus part of the routine could be a reference to the 'love's triumph' which occurs on the stage when Satine calls back Christian and the duke is defeated. then her death shown right after would be logically linked to that part.

 

[bbkenn]

it seems they're going to change it, so what we'll see in February may be totally different.

Where did you read about this? I would love to know what else they plan to do. I actually liked the ending myself, even teared up the first time I saw it.

 

[TSFRENCHFAN]

Ok just saw PC's FD at the Masters on the livestream, it is good but the music kills me... the scores scared me so much even though they are always WAY OVERSCORED in France... 80, 54 for SD ( I was not able to see it) and 123 for the FD total 203. I know Tessa and Scott will work hard but I just don't want Sochi 2.0 for them they deserve better esp if they retire afterwards...

 

[angi]

Ok just saw PC's FD at the Masters on the livestream, it is good but the music kills me... the scores scared me though even though they are alway WAY OVERSCORED in France... 80, 54 for SD ( I was not able to see it) and 123 for the FD total 203. I know Tessa and Scott will work hard but I just don't want Sochi 2.0 for them they deserve better esp if they retire afterwards...

Don't look at the scores look at the protocols... You can subtract around 5-7 points from their SD score and around the same from their free if not more. They got perfect GOE for everything in the SD (other than twizzles) and FD and close to max in PCS as well. It will not be like this in front an International panel....

 

[TSFRENCHFAN]

Don't look at the scores look at the protocols... You can subtract around 5-7 points from their SD score and around the same from their free if not more. They got perfect GOE for everything in the SD (other than twizzles) and FD and close to max in PCS as well. It will not be like this in front an International panel....

True. I sure hope so... I'm also bothered by all of PC dances looking the same to me...

 

[Sonata]

Didier Gailhaguet is setting them up to win.... Same man who fabricated a story about Surya Bonaly's birth because he wanted to make her sound more interesting, yet did not teach her proper edge work. He plays the game.

Don't get me wrong - I like P&C - but they definitely have their own technical issues that can be improved on.

Back to topic - I like the artistic falling, but find it maybe comes too late in the program for full effect.

 

[Zazy]

True. I sure hope so... I'm also bothered by all of PC dances looking the same to me...

I'm bothered by the hypocrisy of some people regarding this but there isn't anything in the rules that says you have to change it up. The SD is where they have to show versatility, and where I suspect they'll always struggle a bit.

As I was expecting, V/M's FD looks kind of cheap compared to P/C's FD. We're going to get comparisons of true art vs tacky and vulgar. It plays right into the P/C-friendly narrative.

 

[marbri]

I don't think at this stage either team has a homerun in the FD. There is nothing new in P/C FD ( yes it's beautiful but exact same impact as previous FDs in this cycle) and V/M need to make the second half as impactful as the first. Both could keep the. Choreography the same and just improve by mileage and emotion but I don't see either FD as a clear favourite.

Still need to see their SD to compare and of course still two US teams to debut that could be spoilers. I think we have a competition here which as a sporting fan is not a bad thing.

 

[nlyoung]

It will come down to levels in the end whenever these two teams meet, as it did last year. One little slip up by a team will make the difference. Last year P/C messed up the short, V/M the long. The results followed that. I still think these teams are pretty much a lock for 1-2, but mistakes could allow another team to sneak in...

Whatever happens, I'm just happy we get to enjoy such great skating with all its variety

 

[Goody2shoes]

Hmmmm. Interesting. It's just that one is a tango a more passionate love and one is about young love. So, I am not sure.

There were parts of the choreography on that particular section that I liked. Some of the movements gave power to certain music points (for present FD(. Just a thought I'm pretty sure whatever V/M & team will tweak in their FD will turn out great.

 

[kittysk8ts]

There were parts of the choreography on that particular section that I liked. Some of the movements gave power to certain music points (for present FD(. Just a thought I'm pretty sure whatever V/M & team will tweak in their FD will turn out great.

Oh yes, me too! I love Umbrellas. And I did take your meaning Cannot wait to MR @ Skate Canada

 

[Goody2shoes]

you have a point about the death part, Goody2shoes. i see it this way: even though we think we are seeing Statine dying, and in fact it is what is happening, at the same time it is a concept showed through dance moves, artistically and not realistically. its like two faces of a coin. on one side there's cinematic reality (they show what happens in the movie). on the other they're expressing the tragedy of it on an abstract level (as in modern ballet). this contradiction allows them to do the unrealistic moves that you mentioned. Tessa can't move that way as a dying person, but she can if we take it as an artistic rendition of her death.
it seems they're going to change it, so what we'll see in February may be totally different. as it is now, i think its in the spirit of the movie. Satine coughs while singing Come what may on the stage, but her collapse right after the final curtain is still kind of unexpected. so everything suddenly ends in nothing. all the chaos heads nowhere.
now that i think of it, the Come what may chorus part of the routine could be a reference to the 'love's triumph' which occurs on the stage when Satine calls back Christian and the duke is defeated. then her death shown right after would be logically linked to that part.

Oh I get it now. (Sorry I didn't watch the movie.) Based on what's available on Youtube the video clips for MR now it makes sense with regards to why they chose the present FD ending.

I'm kind of relaxed this season about this whole scoring thing. It feels similar to last season. In the end, we will only know for certain how judging really goes when they (V/M & P/C) go head to head, and based on their skating of the day. It's out of our hands.

Who gets to decide what's Tacky/vulgar vs real art? Again, skating programs are subjective. We all have our personal preferences (be it inclined towards traditional or more abstract or voidy). Who cares about what others say or think.

What I do know is that I love the fact there is a contrast between V/M and P/C's FD program choices. They are skating to their strengths. Both V/M programs this season are memorable and most importantly, show how strong their skating skills are (in terms of flexibility, versatility and complexity).

Just say good luck and best wishes. And let the judging fall as they may ...

 

[kittysk8ts]

Both V/M programs this season are memorable and most importantly, show how strong their skating skills are (in terms of flexibility, versatility and complexity).

Well said darlin' and I agree 100%

 

[Shayii]

I don't think at this stage either team has a homerun in the FD. There is nothing new in P/C FD ( yes it's beautiful but exact same impact as previous FDs in this cycle) and V/M need to make the second half as impactful as the first. Both could keep the. Choreography the same and just improve by mileage and emotion but I don't see either FD as a clear favourite.

Still need to see their SD to compare and of course still two US teams to debut that could be spoilers. I think we have a competition here which as a sporting fan is not a bad thing.

Yeah to be honest I'm a bit underwhelmed with Marie's choreography for both teams FD. With MR I would like more "craziness" to really match the intense music of the Roxanne part. You see it a bit in the step sequence but I want more of that. The second part just needs to be reworked completely IMO. I wish we could have Jennifer Swan's input.

 

[marbri]

Its really just the ending of MR I am not convinced with at this point. The FD goes by so quickly that the end comes suddenly upon you that I am not ready and it's subtle.

I am not sure if underwhelmed is the right word and the problem isn't just high expectations with these two teams for so early in the season. But what I do feel after watching both is that V/M shouldn't be thinking "we are screwed" which is what a lot of people were writing when they were just aware of the music choices of both ( ie..classical vs movie soundtrack). I had more emotions watching MR then I did with MS (keeping in mind emotions cover a large range). They both have a full season to perfect things and really neither program should be perfect at this stage. I do think there is more potential to grow MR so I look forward to that.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Its really just the ending of MR I am not convinced with at this point. The FD goes by so quickly that the end comes suddenly upon you that I am not ready and it's subtle.

I am not sure if underwhelmed is the right word and the problem isn't just high expectations with these two teams for so early in the season. But what I do feel after watching both is that V/M shouldn't be thinking "we are screwed" which is what a lot of people were writing when they were just aware of the music choices of both ( ie..classical vs movie soundtrack). I had more emotions watching MR then I did with MS (keeping in mind emotions cover a large range). They both have a full season to perfect things and really neither program should be perfect at this stage. I do think there is more potential to grow MR so I look forward to that.

They last thing in the world they are is screwed. They have excellent material. Dramatic. And they have all the SKILLS. I love what they are doing. Yes, FD needs a few tweeks. I agree about the ending. I think he should be kneeling with her body in his arms. I am convinced they have vehicles to get where we all want them to go.

 

[MarieM]

Watch the programs on a big screen, it does really put them both under a whole new light. How exciting this season will be

 

[Sonata]

Their skating skills are so good that the American judge already has her 8.75s ready.

 

[VarBar]

Some will probably color me a crazy fan of Virtue/Moir but, at this point in the season, I like their Moulin Rouge better than P/C's Moonlight Sonata. MR appeals more to me, I find that program more challenging and exciting even though I like the ML music a lot and I'm not particularly fond of the MR soundtrack. Maybe I am going through my 'tacky and vulgar' period and can't appreciate true art as much as I should.

Anyways, I agree with nlyoung that it will all come down to the levels between these two teams.

 

[VGThuy]

I honestly think that though the "high art"/"true art" may have some basis in truth on a basic level, I feel like it's being way overblown by fans of P/C to push a narrative to undermine V/M. It's all campaign speak to me.

 

[angi]

Maybe I am going through my 'tacky and vulgar' period and can't appreciate true art as much as I should.

This sentence made me wish there was a facepalm emoji available here.

 

[Alexandria]

I feel like it's being way overblown by fans of P/C to push a narrative to undermine V/M. It's all campaign speak to me.

Well it's working because it somehow puts V/M fans on the defensive, having to defend their love of this team and their programs. I don't know how my fellow V/M fans think that they're at a disadvantage here. This is crazy because personal tastes aside, they're one of the most decorated and best of all time, and they're still on the top of their game. Don't let fans of others convince us otherwise.

 

[marbri]

This sentence made me wish there was a facepalm emoji available here.

I took it as sarcasm.

At any rate tacky or vulgar is never something I would accuse V/M have, nor should they be accused. Having different tastes is one thing, and valid, but to write either of their programs off as tacky or vulgar says more about the person than it does about them or their programs.

 

[VarBar]

I took it as sarcasm.

Thanks, marbri.

 

[Shayii]

Well it's working because it somehow puts V/M fans on the defensive, having to defend their love of this team and their programs. I don't know how my fellow V/M fans think that they're at a disadvantage here. This is crazy because personal tastes aside, they're one of the most decorated and best of all time, and they're still on the top of their game. Don't let fans of others convince us otherwise.

I've had conflicting feelings about MR personally not because of what others are saying. I don't think VM are at a disadvantage surprisingly. TBH I was expecting that when the rumors proved to be true MR vs. MS. I couldn't help thinking VM were at a big disadvantage, but after seeing both programs now I think they're even. I have a love/hate relationship with MR right now. My expectations were too high I think I was expecting something Carmenesque, but I'm not getting that yet. With MS I was expecting the same enthralled feeling I got from To Build a Home or even the second part of their FD last year, but I didn't feel it. The only FDs I really like so far from Gadbois is from HD and Laurence and Nikolaj. I do love Tessa and Scott's SD.

 

[Alilou]

This sentence made me wish there was a facepalm emoji available here.

There is

 

[Maddie Sparks]

V/M have already had their "version" of Moonlight Sonata. They performed it 7 years ago and won an Olympic Gold. Tessa said it herself, they couldn't do another Mahler or Seasons - even though it would've perhaps been the safest bet. Of course they knew choosing MR would face them with a lot of criticism but they did it anyway, because they are a team who have always taken risks and always evolved.

I like Moonlight Sonata as a piece of music, but I'm not 100% sold on what I just witnessed from PC at French Masters. I know it's so early, and I expect that program to become really stunning, but I don't see it giving them the automatic edge over VM that some have predicted.

The thing I appreciate with MR is the range of emotions it allows VM to play with. The bold dramatics, passion and intensity of the first half ending in a soaring vocal that takes us into the softer, more lyrical, undying love section, culminating in the tragic death scene that leaves you breathless. It showcases all of their strengths and utilises the entire 4 1/2 mins to really take the audience on a journey.