Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir, #46 : Until the End of Time

[manhn]

If VM did any one of the last four PC FDs, take your pick, they would have been accused of doing the same old same old same old. Goodness gracious, if they did Moonlight Sonata, can you imagine the "But Marina already did that program!!! Who does Tessa think she is--Katia?!?!?" blah blah.

And when people want them to go back to something like Pink Floyd (their least successful FD--what a coincidence!), they will just criticize it's Prince all over again.

 

[sap5]

I honestly think that though the "high art"/"true art" may have some basis in truth on a basic level, I feel like it's being way overblown by fans of P/C to push a narrative to undermine V/M. It's all campaign speak to me.

It may have some basis in some contexts, but I don't believe it has any basis in the context of these two programs.

ETA: and I agree that there's no need to defend something that doesn't need to be defended. There's nothing cheap or tacky about v/m's program to MR, and the program is what is being judged.

 

[Shayii]

If VM did any one of the last four PC FDs, take your pick, they would have been accused of doing the same old same old same old. Goodness gracious, if they did Moonlight Sonata, can you imagine the "But Marina already did that program!!! Who does Tessa think she is--Katia?!?!?" blah blah.

And when people want them to go back to something like Pink Floyd (their least successful FD--what a coincidence!), they will just criticize it's Prince all over again.

This is very true they can't win no matter what they do. I feel like VM fans themselves are very critical of them myself included. I think we just want the best for them and want them to exceed all expectations. The season just barely started I'm looking forward to seeing their programs develop.

 

[chapis]

I think P/C did a good strategy showing only their FD. So the first impression is based only in the FD, any predictions right now are based only about it. We need to watch the SD. Unbelievable that their fans talk about art while P/C choose to skate to Ed Sheeran for the SD.

 

[suki]

I watched P/C's free dance on Youtube. Is it me, or is there a lot of side-by-side, no dance hold choreography? It's very pretty, but I don't think it has near the techncial content and complexity of some of the other free dances I've seen this season (and we haven't seen them all yet). They also appear to skate far apart.

 

[chapis]

I watched P/C's free dance on Youtube. Is it me, or is there a lot of side-by-side, no dance hold choreography? It's very pretty, but I don't think it has near the techncial content and complexity of some of the other free dances I've seen this season (and we haven't seen them all yet). They also appear to skate far apart.

And easiest lifts, again.

 

[martyross]

while i find nice that many adore PapaCiz, and i surely know what it means to love a dance couple that much , to keep reading that they're even to Tessa and Scott annoys me a little. to this i'll add that the judges will probably reflect that idea in their future scores hence ill be even more annoyed. i wouldnt make comparisons between teams, i usually find it baseless. but since im going to see it repeated on boards until February, i'll just offer my opinion by making that comparison. one is absolutely free to find them equal in, say, the beauty of the style, in the ability to convey a musical concept, projecting emotions,dancing with abandon, comunicating/touching the audience, etc. this is in the realm of the subjective...to each his own. but when it comes to an objective assessment of what is done on the ice, well that's an other thing. they are not equal technically. the difficulty of the elements (all of the lifts, absolutely),spped,blade work,tension,sharpness, closeness, changes of direction, extension, and i add complexity of choreography and complexity of character interpretation. Moulin Rouge is objectively harder. and from their first outing,they handled the hardness with an high level of execution. i cant honestly and possibly say that they are equal in skating skills. i won't accept similar marks in that area,like 9.75 for VM and 9.60 for PC. it would not reflect the reality. the harder the program, the higher the risk to make mistakes, the higher (should be) the reward.it happens in the men field all the time. besides, as i said, they're not presenting hard elements and doing them badly. their tech score and PCS combined should be above for at least 6-7 points.
now that i have stated my opinion i'll go back trying to accept, in the next 6 months, that the majority of the opinions/scoring will not be based on objectivity..

 

[muffinplus]

I love V/M, but the music for the FD makes me cringe. The vocals... jusy ugh. Really wish they had skated to something else

 

[dramagrrl]

I completely understand that there are no rules about having to diversify the types of FD a team presents from one season to the next, that a team should not be judged on the fact that "their dances are all the same", and that of course, a medal-contending team would want to stay in the areas of their strengths in an Olympic season. Also, in terms of pure stylistic/"artistic" taste, which is obviously subjective in a lot of ways, P&C are probably my favourite dance team after V&M since the Bourne & Kraatz days. I feel they are the only team that has come close to meeting V&M's skills in terms of presentation and the intangible "magical" quality of their free dances. (I never thought D&W came close to being legitimate rivals to V&M artistically and thought it was often ludicrous that their PCS were close to or even higher than V&M's, but that's another story and all the D&W ubers are free to come out of the shadows and lynch me for saying so , even though I liked D&W quite a lot, especially in their younger days.)

However, all that being said, I think what does make a difference to me in terms of the "P&C's FDs are all the same" argument is the fact that the sameness of their free dances means that the strengths of their style lose impact the more they skate to similarly-styled programs. When I first saw "To Build a Home", which was the first time I'd really paid attention to P&C since I was kind of checked out of the ice dance scene in their breakthrough Mozart FD season, I was blown away by their ability to float seemingly effortlessly across the ice, their strength in seamlessly hitting the highlights of the music, and the artistic coherence of the program as a whole, something I hadn't seen, I personally felt, since V&M's Mahler in 2010. I watched the Worlds version of that FD repeatedly and was carried along on a journey every time. Then when I saw the debut of their 2016-17 program, I thought it was very pretty and fluid, but a bit too stylistically similar to their previous two FDs to have the same impact as Mozart or (my favourite) To Build a Home. When I wasn't fully entrenched into the FD as a singular artistic piece, I was much more able to pick out their weaknesses.

I feel the same way about Moonlight Sonata. I think it definitely has more dramatic impact than last year's FD, but to me, it is, again, too stylistically similar to really lose myself in it, and therefore lacks the awe-inspiring quality of To Build a Home. I start noticing things like how much side-by-side skating they do to build up their seemingly effortless speed, how their edges are often shallow, and other weaknesses that clearly exist in their skating. It's a beautiful piece, for sure, but if they had come out with something completely different and were able to do it successfully, I think it would have had more impact and actually built on their strength of presenting a program as a coherent piece that helps to hide some of their technical weaknesses.

 

[irena]

We are here comparing programs, judjes, strength of federations but we forget about the audience. The Olimpics are in Korea and I have the impression that Korean audience is very emotional and very fond of Tessa and Scott, at least from what I have seen from their old performances there. So at least this is something we must not worry about

 

[pani]

Guys, I am proud of VM fans. We become more mature, then were before, like VM. We saw good and bad in VM and there programs, we are talking about what they could change to made programs better, how they could improve programs, costumes, skating, lines, interpretation. And most fans wish they will made one more new lift, when PC fans didn't pay attention to this details at all.
They choose right program, considering they couldn't choose Chopin, Bach, Rahmaninov. There FD must be totally different to PC FD. They show in FD it's ice dance, not pair skating. They did everything, they could, they had a big challenge, so now TS and there fans need just wait and see, how things will go for them at there last OG. They even did twizzles on fast music opposite to PC.
So this will not be boring and we didn't see everyone yet. Can't wait to see SC version of VM programs and feel very sad I couldn't see this team last time in competitions "live".

 

[IoanaC]

Can't wait to see SC version of VM programs and feel very sad I couldn't see this team last time in competitions "live".

This is my biggest regret as well.
But I am happy to have been present when they won GPF and Worlds last season. It was a beautiful opportunity I wouldn't even have dreamed about in 2014.

 

[Andora]

I really love P&C, and would have been pleased as punch if they'd commanded this Olympic cycle, had V&M not returned - and returned so strongly. I've loved their FDs, even last year's, though it wasn't so strong.

I say that because Moonlight Sonata fell sooooo flat for me. It pales even to last year's free. Strong skating and a couple beautiful moments, but.... It felt like they didn't really connect to it either. It doesn't feel like art, more like basic P&C to basic music. I'm almost disappointed. That doesn't mean I'm confident V&M will win the Olympics, though. P&C are still great skaters. (Well, Guillaume is, and Gabby moves very well)

I feel the same way about W&P's FD this year. It's "classic Weapo" but it feels so... Same old. P&C are running the same risk. Moonlight Sonata isn't as fresh and stunning as 2015's le parc, and could feel like a failed tribute.

I fully expected to hate Moulin Rouge - I don't care for the music, it's become a war horse, etc. But their FD comes at you like a train, and I'm still shocked at how much I love it. Better costumes, more milleage- it could be great.

Should be an interesting season.

 

[Xela M]

I really love P&C, and would have been pleased as punch if they'd commanded this Olympic cycle, had V&M not returned - and returned so strongly. I've loved their FDs, even last year's, though it wasn't so strong.

I say that because Moonlight Sonata fell sooooo flat for me. It pales even to last year's free. Strong skating and a couple beautiful moments, but.... It felt like they didn't really connect to it either. It doesn't feel like art, more like basic P&C to basic music. I'm almost disappointed. That doesn't mean I'm confident V&M will win the Olympics, though. P&C are still great skaters. (Well, Guillaume is, and Gabby moves very well)

I feel the same way about W&P's FD this year. It's "classic Weapo" but it feels so... Same old. P&C are running the same risk. Moonlight Sonata isn't as fresh and stunning as 2015's le parc, and could feel like a failed tribute.

I fully expected to hate Moulin Rouge - I don't care for the music, it's become a war horse, etc. But their FD comes at you like a train, and I'm still shocked at how much I love it. Better costumes, more milleage- it could be great.

Should be an interesting season.

It's funny how people can watch the same thing and have completely opposite reactions to it. P&C's free dance is a work of art, V&M's is anything but. Sorry

 

[Andora]

It's funny how people can watch the same thing and have completely opposite reactions to it. P&C's free dance is a work of art, V&M's is anything but. Sorry

Me disagreeing with your opinions is nothing new.

 

[marbri]

It's funny how people can watch the same thing and have completely opposite reactions to it. P&C's free dance is a work of art, V&M's is anything but. Sorry

And then there is a third reaction that neither are works of art. But they each have the season to change that.

 

[IoanaC]

And then there is a third reaction that neither are works of art. But they each have the season to change that.

THIS.

 

[angi]

It's funny how people can watch the same thing and have completely opposite reactions to it. P&C's free dance is a work of art, V&M's is anything but. Sorry

This statement is really worth a lot coming from the same person who posted this beauty: "Comparing P&C's free dance to V&M's is like comparing the beauty of a Goddess to that of a stripper."
Try voicing an opinion without demeaning the skaters you are talking about once in awhile.

 

[Goody2shoes]

Again, what is exactly tacky or cheap about V/M programs? Is it because some are too focused on what they wore than the dances themselves? What of other skaters who did the same "warhorse" piece? Cheap because of it being a warhorse because V/M chose it over all other type of dance style they should have performed for Olympic season?Or am I missing somewhere that there a certain determined choreography one can say, it's set as classy MR?

Why cheap/tacky because in V/M's FD they chose to dance to Roxanne in one part? Why Cheap/tacky in V/M's SD because they didn't decided not to perform their usual Zueva-style Latin choreography?

Strip V/M of those (god awful, some say) outfits and focus on what they actually DO on the ice. Nothing in there (as I could see) is cheap or tacky about that.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Again, what is exactly tacky or cheap about V/M programs? Is it because some are too focused on what they wore than the dances themselves? What of other skaters who did the same "warhorse" piece? Cheap because of it being a warhorse because V/M chose it over all other type of dance style they should have performed for Olympic season?Or am I missing somewhere that there a certain determined choreography one can say, it's set as classy MR?

Why cheap/tacky because in V/M's FD they chose to dance to Roxanne in one part? Why Cheap/tacky in V/M's SD because they didn't decided not to perform their usual Zueva-style Latin choreography?

Strip V/M of those (god awful, some say) outfits and focus on what they actually DO on the ice. Nothing in there (as I could see) is cheap or tacky about that.

I love and applaud their SD costumes! Sexy and dramatic.

Post script: Here is their costume designer's website. Looking at his "latin" creations, I would say Tessa went with something a little more tame in terms of "exposure" haha. Lots of cut outs in his designs. You can also see pics of other skaters he has dressed.

http://www.feelingmathieucaron.com/?lang=en

 

[Miloune]

Nothing about Tessa and Scott is cheap. Period.

 

[Goody2shoes]

I love and applaud their SD costumes! Sexy and dramatic.

Post script: Here is their costume designer's website. Looking at his "latin" creations, I would say Tessa went with something a little more tame in terms of "exposure" haha. Lots of cut outs in his designs. You can also see pics of other skaters he has dressed.

http://www.feelingmathieucaron.com/?lang=en

Same here, kittysk8ts Tessa's dress style for SD fits for chosen music & Latin ballroom dance. Those long sleeves and overall dress cut really elongates Tessa's figure & arms. She looked so confident and it shows through their dance. Perfect makeup and hairstyle too.

Since it's OTT for some, I say if they choose to change, stick with same style cut dress for Tessa with colours & shine, like their Carmen outfit. (Personally I like the hint of gold) I dont mind the sheer fabric for both of Tessa &. Scott. Don't mind abit of intricate design on shirt for him too. But if he goes back basic black, deep v neck is in tune with Latin ballroom style outfit. Hopefully they both match for next outing

Notice something on website...a typo...I think he meant wedding dresses not weeding dresses. Oppsss

 

[bbkenn]

Just watched P&C's FD from Youtube and was expecting it to be sensational (as I felt the first time I saw them do their FD two years ago) and found myself disappointed in it. It begins well, great flow that you expect of them, but compared with the complexity of the music, it seemed a bit empty. The part that doesn't work that well, for me, is the fast part of MS where they do several spins. The music is so fast, that it makes them look so slow by comparison. It does finish well because they go back to the slower music in the end.

Then I watched V&M's FD and, IMO, there's just no comparison. The sheer difficulty of the choreography in V&M's FD blows away P&C's at this time. I am sure P&C's will get better and they'll make adjustments, but right now, IMO, despite the marks P&C got from judges in France, I'd give it to V&M in every category.

I do love Gabriella's dress though. It's beautiful and suits the program perfectly. I feel the same way about Tessa's red dress. I love the color on her.

 

[Zazy]

Hopefully they both match for next outing

That's my biggest issue with the SD costumes: they clash terribly. I really hope those aren't the final costumes.

And I generally like Tessa's costumes but for two years now, their designer doesn't seem to have any idea how to dress Scott. Maybe someone else could do his costumes?

In any case, the SD has grown on me. Not my favourite, but it should be a good vehicle for them.

 

[Vera Costa]

This statement is really worth a lot coming from the same person who posted this beauty: "Comparing P&C's free dance to V&M's is like comparing the beauty of a Goddess to that of a stripper."
Try voicing an opinion without demeaning the skaters you are talking about once in awhile.

You know, I think more than the demeaning of the skaters, I'm annoyed at the use of strippers to do so. Are strippers not people? Do they also not work to put food on the table? One may not have a high opinion of the sort of work they do, but maybe try to abstain from using them as an insult. These are people. The work they do deserves the same respect of anyone else.

 

[Isabelle.G]

And then there is a third reaction that neither are works of art. But they each have the season to change that.

Yep. Both programmes are just at their beginning and will evolve quite a lot during the season, in my opinion. What a great opportunity for us, fans, to witness that and to see the beauty that, I'm sure of it, will come out of the dances in February.

 

[martyross]

well the first streapper who comes in mind is Salma Hayek in 'Dogma',(whose character is,ironically, a divinity in disguise).

http://images.complex.com/complex/i...fl_lossy,pg_1,q_auto/nm2n3ymw0ahhwbjlk3rk.jpg

there have been stunning actresses who famously streapteased (Kim Basinger,Demi Moore).im sure there are women who do that as a job and are gorgeous. i would envy their beauty and bodies if i saw them in a show. i would not be able to make a living thanks to my body,they can. good for them. sexiness is a wonderful quality in a woman. (Tessa's sd dress is sexy, i happen to love sexy dresses (especially lingerie)). sexy is not cheap. unless you believe women must go around dressed like in the Victorian age in order to have the approval of society.
you know im sure that the ones who like to throw that adjective to VM actually recognize that their material and skills are great. the only way to deny it on boards is to grab the 'cheap' narrative and keep waving that flag. this time they cant say 'boring,repetitive, mushy,snooze-fest'. they repeat this newly-discovered hypocritical and moralistic slogan which is supposed to lecture us about what is art and what is trash in ice dance. i remember arguments in the VM-DW fan wars being less ridiculous and condescending.
i suspect judges would not consider Moulin Rouge 'cheap'. even if they did, that wouldn't prevent them to award them the gold, barring mistakes. so not only this cheap business is petty and foolish but also completely unuseful if we remember who will really play the game that night in Korea.

 

[bbkenn]

well the first streapper who comes in mind is Salma Hayek in 'Dogma',(whose character is,ironically, a divinity in disguise).

http://images.complex.com/complex/i...fl_lossy,pg_1,q_auto/nm2n3ymw0ahhwbjlk3rk.jpg

there have been stunning actresses who famously streapteased (Kim Basinger,Demi Moore).im sure there are women who do that as a job and are gorgeous. i would envy their beauty and bodies if i saw them in a show. i would not be able to make a living thanks to my body,they can. good for them. sexiness is a wonderful quality in a woman. (Tessa's sd dress is sexy, i happen to love sexy dresses (especially lingerie)). sexy is not cheap. unless you believe women must go around dressed like in the Victorian age in order to have the approval of society.
you know im sure that the ones who like to throw that adjective to VM actually recognize that their material and skills are great. the only way to deny it on boards is to grab the 'cheap' narrative and keep waving that flag. this time they cant say 'boring,repetitive, mushy,snooze-fest'. they repeat this newly-discovered hypocritical and moralistic slogan which is supposed to lecture us about what is art and what is trash in ice dance. i remember arguments in the VM-DW fan wars being less ridiculous and condescending.
i suspect judges would not consider Moulin Rouge 'cheap'. even if they did, that wouldn't prevent them to award them the gold, barring mistakes. so not only this cheap business is petty and foolish but also completely unuseful if we remember who will really play the game that night in Korea.

This reminds me of the discussion regarding their "Carmen" program. People were excited, but many dissed it as being too sexed up or something like that. Sigh.

 

[Maddie Sparks]

There is nothing cheap or tacky about V/M's superb skating skills and deep edges. We've seen this team do it all. They can be soft and lyrical and romantic, they can be edgy and dark and passionate, they can be upbeat and quirky. V/M have nothing to prove to anybody because their body of work speaks for itself.

Also, rewatching P/C's FD again, I almost wish they'd bring back To Build A Home. Their contemporary dance style would suit a more contemporary music choice, IMO.

 

[Lanie]

There is nothing cheap or tacky about V/M's superb skating skills and deep edges. We've seen this team do it all. They can be soft and lyrical and romantic, they can be edgy and dark and passionate, they can be upbeat and quirky. V/M have nothing to prove to anybody because their body of work speaks for itself.

Also, rewatching P/C's FD again, I almost wish they'd bring back To Build A Home. Their contemporary dance style would suit a more contemporary music choice, IMO.

IMO their amazing skating (I am showing my bias but I do think V&M are among the best ice dancers, ever) are overshadowed by their cheap and tacky programs this season. They are so much better than their material and it's disappointing to me as a fan. I assume many changes will be made by the time Skate Canada rolls around.