TES minimums for 2018-19 season

[morqet]

https://www.isu.org/communications/18349-isu-communication-2205/file

For scores achieved in 2018-19:
Worlds
Men 34 64
Ladies 29 49
Pairs 27 44
Dance 31 45

Euros/4CCs
Men 28 46
Ladies 23 40
Pairs 25 42
Dance 26 42

Junior Worlds
Men 23 42
Ladies 23 38
Pairs 23 34
Dance 22 35

For scores achieved in 2017-18
Worlds
Men 36 66
Ladies 29 49
Pairs 27 46
Dance 30 43

Euros/4CCs
Men 28 48
Ladies 22 39
Pairs 25 44
Dance 25 38

Junior Worlds
Men 23 44
Ladies 21 36
Pairs 23 35
Dance 20 30

So TES scores achieved last year will still count, if a skater is using a score from last year the required minimum is slightly different to reflect the changes in GOE/base values/etc - extra fun for those trying to keep track of the stats!

 

[Jeschke]

Off-topic (admins feel free to move that, whenever there is a right thread for that )
So this document also says, pairs events at challengers will be reduced to a certain number (like junior grand prix).
Sucks for the events, which got cut, but might be better to avoid a mess like this year.

 

[Jeschke]

extra fun for those trying to keep track of the stats!

 

[oleada]

Also it has the JGP hosts for next year (including France, Lake Placid USA, Italy and Russia) and Strasbourg, FRA as JGPF/GPF host (TBC)

 

[Jeschke]

and Strasbourg, FRA as JGPF/GPF host (TBC)

This is a 1hour drive away for me Dare DG putting it somewhere else!

 

[kwanfan1818]

The only minimums that haven't changed are:

• Men's Worlds
• Men's Jr. Worlds FS

The biggest changes are to Euro's/4C's/Olys Dance -- 7 for the RD (+37%) and 13 (+ 45%) for the FD -- Jr. Worlds Dance -- 4 for RD (+22%) and 7 for the FD (+25%) -- and Euros/4C's/Olys Pairs SP -- 5 (25%):

Worlds

• Men: SP-0 (0%), FS-0 (0%)
• Ladies: SP-2 (7.41%), FS-2 (4.26%)
• Pairs: SP-2 (8%), FS-1 (2.33%)
• Dance: SD-2 (6.9%), FD-6 (15.38%)

Euros/4C's/Olys

• Men: SP-3 (12%), FS-1 (2.22%)
• Ladies: SP-3 (15%), FS-4 (11.11%)
• Pairs: SP-5 (25%), FS-6 (16.67%)
• Dance: SD-7 (36.84%), FD-13 (44.83%)

Jr. Worlds

• Men: SP-3 (15%), FS-0 (0%)
• Ladies: SP-3 (15%), FS-3 (8.57%)
• Pairs: SP-3 (15%), FS-4 (13.33%)
• Dance: SD-4 (22.22%), FD-7 (25%)

 

[Seerek]

Any notable senior men and women who's 2017-18 TES scores were precisely within the 34-36/27-29 and/or 64-66/47-49 ranges and would need to "re-qualify"?

 

[her grace]

Also it has the JGP hosts for next year (including France, Lake Placid USA, Italy and Russia) and Strasbourg, FRA as JGPF/GPF host (TBC)

So Russia will have 15 spots for ladies (assuming top 3 nations at jr. worlds) and the U.S. could have 9 spots in ladies (assuming 4-6th best nation at jr. worlds).

 

[sus2850]

Yes, Strasbourg!!!

 

[Dobre]

So TES scores achieved last year will still count, if a skater is using a score from last year the required minimum is slightly different to reflect the changes in GOE/base values/etc - extra fun for those trying to keep track of the stats!

Athletes can use their scores from last season, which I understood right away. But I just realized that the requirement for meeting the minimums--even when using last season's scores--have changed. Last year, for example, the minimum was 29 in the short dance; but now you need to have had a 30 last year in order to meet the requirement. Or a 31 in the rhythm dance this season. Correct?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Athletes can use their scores from last season, which I understood right away. But I just realized that the requirement for meeting the minimums--even when using last season's scores--have changed. Last year, for example, the minimum was 29 in the short dance; but now you need to have had a 30 last year in order to meet the requirement. Or a 31 in the rhythm dance this season. Correct?

Yes. Theoretically, if there hadn't been a change to the length of the programs/elements and changes to the GOE scale, the minimums that will be applied to last season would have been the new minimums across the board.

 

[insideedgeua]

Athletes can use their scores from last season, which I understood right away. But I just realized that the requirement for meeting the minimums--even when using last season's scores--have changed. Last year, for example, the minimum was 29 in the short dance; but now you need to have had a 30 last year in order to meet the requirement. Or a 31 in the rhythm dance this season. Correct?

Correct!

This has meant that some skaters from smaller federations had the minimum from last year, but now don’t have the minimum.

They’re now having to reassess their schedules to get the new scores before their own Nationals.

 

[Dobre]

They’re now having to reassess their schedules to get the new scores before their own Nationals.

I would imagine, though I would also imagine the majority have already been out in competition trying to earn higher scores. They just did not know what those would need to be and have not reached them yet.

 

[insideedgeua]

I would imagine, though I would also imagine the majority have already been out in competition trying to earn higher scores. They just did not know what those would need to be and have not reached them yet.

Yes, but I know of at least one recovering from injuries who had last year’s score before it was revised. Now trying to rush recovery to get out there again.

I know new scores come out and they did need to be revised, based on Senior Men having one less element. It’s a shame the ISU didn’t get the score out before the season started.

What I do find a bit unfair though is revising last season’s score. So a skater had the score fair and square last year, but now the ISU has changed the score for last year. That doesn’t sit right with me, to retrospectively change the goal.

I have no doubt any skaters caught out by the change will be doing their best to get the score. I just find the change to last year’s score a bit unfair.

 

[RoseRed]

Yes, but I know of at least one recovering from injuries who had last year’s score before it was revised. Now trying to rush recovery to get out there again.

I know new scores come out and they did need to be revised, based on Senior Men having one less element. It’s a shame the ISU didn’t get the score out before the season started.

What I do find a bit unfair though is revising last season’s score. So a skater had the score fair and square last year, but now the ISU has changed the score for last year. That doesn’t sit right with me, to retrospectively change the goal.

I have no doubt any skaters caught out by the change will be doing their best to get the score. I just find the change to last year’s score a bit unfair.

They needed to wait and see how the scores were working with the new system to set the scores for this season.

And it's not retrospectively changing the goal to revise last year's score. Last year's score was the goal for last year. They do periodically raise the minimum scores as the level of competition gets higher. I suspect last year's minimums would have been raised even if the judging system did not change at all.

 

[insideedgeua]

And it's not retrospectively changing the goal to revise last year's score. Last year's score was the goal for last year. They do periodically raise the minimum scores as the level of competition gets higher. I suspect last year's minimums would have been raised even if the judging system did not change at all.

I don’t have any quibble with the new scores for this season, but I’ll respectfully disagree with changing last year’s score long after the season is over.

It’s like studying for an exam and being told that the pass mark is 75%. If you study, get the score, pass and celebrate. Then 7 months later someone tells you sorry, the score is now 80% for last year so you failed. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

 

[RoseRed]

I don’t have any quibble with the new scores for this season, but I’ll respectfully disagree with changing last year’s score long after the season is over.

It’s like studying for an exam and being told that the pass mark is 75%. If you study, get the score, pass and celebrate. Then 7 months later someone tells you sorry, the score is now 80% for last year so you failed. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

But they aren't changing last year's scores the way you seem to mean. All they've done is say that the tech minimums for this season are higher than they were last season.

If the scoring system had not changed at all, they could still have said that the tech minimums for events this season are x higher. The tech scores carry over from the past season, but that doesn't mean that the same score will be good enough the next season.

To go with your example, I disagree with your premise. It's more like this: your parents say you have to get at least 75% on your exam to go to the big party at the end of the year. Then, the next year, they say you have to 80% to go to this year's party, but if you got at least 85% last year that will count too.

Your parents never said that 75% was going to be good enough for 2018-19, only that it was enough in 2017-18. So they aren't going back and changing anything.

Bringing it back to skating, your example would be like if the ISU had said, we decided the minimums from last season were too lower, so we are retroactively disqualifying anyone who didn't meet our higher standards from Euros/4CC/Worlds 2018 and not counting their SB/WS from those events.

I agree that it's unfortunate it's this late and makes it difficult for some skaters.

 

[insideedgeua]

But they aren't changing last year's scores the way you seem to mean. All they've done is say that the tech minimums for this season are higher than they were last season.

To go with your example, I disagree with your premise. It's more like this: your parents say you have to get at least 75% on your exam to go to the big party at the end of the year. Then, the next year, they say you have to 80% to go to this year's party, but if you got at least 85% last year that will count too.

Your parents never said that 75% was going to be good enough for 2018-19, only that it was enough in 2017-18. So they aren't going back and changing anything.

Bringing it back to skating, your example would be like if the ISU had said, we decided the minimums from last season were too lower, so we are retroactively disqualifying anyone who didn't meet our higher standards from Euros/4CC/Worlds 2018 and not counting their SB/WS from those events.

.

But that’s just it, they absolutely changed last year’s score.

The 17/18 score for men at 4CC and Europeans was 25 for the Sp and 45 for the free. The revised scores for last year are 28 Sp and 48 for the free. So if you achieved last year’s score, say 27 Sp and 47 free, they no longer qualify.

The scores for 18/19 are lower to reflect the new base values and one less element. But you have to achieve those scores this season.

There are definitely men who have been caught in this gap. They had the 17/18 scores but not the revised score.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Every year they have the right to change the TES minimums, and new minimums apply to the current and previous season. The prior season's minimums have never been grandfathered, so there's nothing unfair about it.

Had there been no change to the GOE scale and the length of program/number of elements, the minimums applied to last year's scores would have applied to this year's scores as well. Because the scoring system changed in major ways, they calibrated the higher minimums for each season based on the rules in effect at the time. That's the only reason they're different for this and last season. Assuming no major changes for next season, whatever the minimums are for next season will apply to 2019-2020 and 2018-2019. They could be higher, lower, or the same.

This was the target change from last season to this season:

Worlds:

• Men: SP-(6%), FS-(3%)
• Ladies: SP-(7%), FS-(4%)
• Pairs: SP-(7%), FS-(7%)
• Dance: SP-(3%), FS-(9%)

Euros/4C's/Olympics:

• Men: SP-(11%), FS-(6%)
• Ladies: SP-(9%), FS-(8%)
• Pairs: SP-(20%), FS-(18%)
• Dance: SP-(24%), FS-(24%)

Jr. Worlds:

• Men: SP-(13%), FS-(5%)
• Ladies: SP-(5%), FS-(3%)
• Pairs: SP-(13%), FS-(14%)
• Dance: SP-(10%), FS-(7%)

 

[Dobre]

I suppose they could have announced the change for last year's score back during the spring. I always assumed, though, that the athletes on the bubble might have an issue. For all we knew, last year's scores might not have counted at all under the new scoring system.


I was looking at the TES minimum list for the dance teams yesterday (while waiting for trick-or-treaters). The costumed brigade arrived before I got through a lot, but here are a few scenarios I noticed:

For Worlds:
-I believe Markova & Daze need a stronger FD score. (Very unusual. Usually it's the RD).

-Ichilov & Davidovich are going to have to work for minimums as well. They were juniors last year so of course, they knew they would.

Those two are the ones that stood out to me as teams that would likely get a spot at Worlds due to lack of depth at home. (At least six other teams I noticed right off the bat but a couple may be aiming for Junior Worlds and others for just Euros/4CCs).


Also two teams that would need to work for 4CC scores:
-Ning & Wang
-Friend & Badaoui

Both of whom could likely go if they earn the scores. (F&B have been competing as juniors this season so their main goal is probably Junior Worlds, which they are good for. I don't know whether they are planning to compete as seniors this season at all or not). ETA: I just saw that F&B are signed up to compete as seniors at the Warsaw Cup.

 

[Skate Talker]

IIRC, in the past the ISU reserved the right to lower the minimum requirement much closer to Worlds if it looked like too few skaters/teams were going to qualify. Perhaps this is something that will be looked at closely this year before Worlds as well, particularly considering the affect of not only the scoring and program length changes, but also the retirement/absence of a number of skaters/teams.

 

[Orm Irian]

-Friend & Badaoui

Both of whom could likely go if they earn the scores. (F&B have been competing as juniors this season so their main goal is probably Junior Worlds, which they are good for. I don't know whether they are planning to compete as seniors this season at all or not). ETA: I just saw that F&B are signed up to compete as seniors at the Warsaw Cup.

They're also going to be skating at Inge Solar Memorial in a couple of weeks, in the Senior category.

 

[Sylvia]

On the ISU website, the Season Technical Scores now are separated and there are now 4 columns:
Highest Technical Score from previous season (2017/18) SP & FS and Highest Technical Score from current season (2018/19) SP & FS.

Senior Men: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stsmjustsensep.htm

Senior Ladies: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stsljustsensep.htm

Senior Pairs: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stspjustsensep.htm

Senior Ice Dance: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stsdjustsensep.htm

Junior Men: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stsmjustjunsep.htm

Junior Ladies: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stsljustjunsep.htm

Junior Pairs: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stspjustjunsep.htm

Junior Ice Dance: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/tes/stsdjustjunsep.htm

 

[Sylvia]

(wrong thread, sorry)