Survivor S41

[smurfy]

Great discussion about this past episode!
Heather - I think my mouth dropped to the floor - contender for immunity and she spoke!.
Good point about it being planned. Just so odd.
I saw Tiffany's Ponderosa - she was funny and so correct - no idols/advantages flushed out?
I agree about the editing - so much going on that we are not seeing. I wonder if each episode should be 2 hours for the cycle - post TC through new TC.
Shan was growing on me - but the way she was talking about how she didn't like when others were talking and brought her up her parishioners - yikes - might be uncomfortable when she gets home. part of her job is being a good listener.
Shan is steamrolling so now I hope there is a wonderful blindside.
I still like DeShawn and Danny, Evie some, and Xander.
Interesting what Tiffany said about Xander - and really her plan - truth is probably somewhere in between??

 

[Jenny]

I saw Tiffany's Ponderosa - she was funny and so correct - no idols/advantages flushed out?

Maybe it's about lack of control. Interesting that in the interview @Susan1 shared (thank you!) she said Shan and Deshawn are the bosses (which could explain why they are locking horns at the same time), so if they're leading some complicated plan, Shan for sure doesn't want anyone going after someone because they have an idol, but also any idol play is going to throw off their plan.

Also interesting that Tiffany didn't say anything about Shan and Ricard trying to get Xander to play his though. Maybe it just doesn't fit into her I was the mastermind/Xander's dead to me/they're all idiots for going after me narrative.

 

[tony]

I guess I wasn't paying attention, but who threw in their extra vote at the first tribal? I'm confused if Shan and Ricard split their votes because they couldn't agree or what, but I think the editing is still showing us just enough of their disagreements that there will definitely be a huge blowup between the two and one will mastermind sending the other home.

Xander really should've known to play the idol, but Evvie wasn't going to win anyways so I guess it's better he still has it.

The group of four + Ricard looks like it's coming to their end. It would make sense in a Tony Cagayan-plan way if they really were a strong 4 plus one being pulled along, because they'd potentially still be able to hold the power the following week at 4 against 3.

ETA- it's Wikipedia now that says Shan threw her extra vote for one of each and Ricard voted for Heather in the first vote. I really don't get that move. They could've just sent Naseer home outright, and if he played his idol, then Heather goes home anyways.

Another ETA- The producers showed us plenty of Danny reactions when DeShawn was talking about his scheming. I know it didn't play out in this episode, but I see that being a storyline in one of their demises sometime soon.

 

[jamesy]

ETA- it's Wikipedia now that says Shan threw her extra vote for one of each and Ricard voted for Heather in the first vote. I really don't get that move. They could've just sent Naseer home outright, and if he played his idol, then Heather goes home anyways.

I think it was overcomplicated insurance on the chance of Heather/Erika trying to vote Shan/Ricard and it working if Naseer played his idol.

 

[tony]

I think it was overcomplicated insurance on the chance of Heather/Erika trying to vote Shan/Ricard and it working if Naseer played his idol.

But even so, only one vote went to Naseer and two to Heather from those two. If Naseer decided to band with Heather and Erika to vote either of them out, then none of that- including the extra vote- would’ve mattered. I kinda wish that would’ve happened.

 

[love skating]

I don't know why they used that extra vote either but don't mind that they have one less advantage. I really liked Shan in the beginning but she's getting annoying now with her need for control - however Liana annoys me more, I was hoping she'd get voted out but it would have been a dumb move for DeShawn to do I guess.

 

[Jenny]

I think it was overcomplicated insurance on the chance of Heather/Erika trying to vote Shan/Ricard and it working if Naseer played his idol.

Bingo. I think it was Shan trying to control everything down to the last detail, and it seems like a waste of an advantage. At this stage, did it really matter that much if it was Naseer or Heather? Both have been wild cards so far, so "as long as it isn't me" would have seemed the best strategy here. A few TCs from now, an extra vote could have been a lot more useful (as apparently Xander thinks).

Also not getting why no one is trying to get Shan out. Maybe they all think she's a bigger target than they are, but as we are seeing, that strategy isn't going to keep anyone safe.

Interesting that they separated the tribes for the pre TC scramble. Imagine if it was going to be two separate TCs only they're all on the same beach, and there's Shan trying to tell the other group how to vote

Also, turns out Heather did act alone last week, but as it is, I'm not interested enough in her to try and figure out her game

 

[Susan1]

Also not getting why no one is trying to get Shan out. Maybe they all think she's a bigger target than they are, but as we are seeing, that strategy isn't going to keep anyone safe.

She said again that she has to listen to everybody and then make sure they do it her way, just like she said about her congregation. She needs to go. And then see what happens when she gets home.

 

[genevieve]

I thought the strategy was to keep Naseer in the game but flush his idol - but I guess in a revote he couldn't use his idol?

FWIW, I 100% agree with Ricard that targeting Heather makes no sense strategically - and ultimately I think Shan was just being passive aggressive with splitting her votes - technically she went along with Ricard, because the intended target got the boot, but she had to make it all dramatik .

Naseer seems like a genuinely nice guy - he seemed disappointed but also very grateful for the experience and took moving to the jury in stride.

I'm sad that Xander didn't play his idol for Evvie, just because breaking up Shan/Liana would have been huge. I knew there was no way that Danny was going to vote Liana, and it's just too early for DeShawn to turn against the person he seems to have been aligned with since the beginning (Danny) - especially knowing that Shan/Ricard made it through their TC and his alliance of 4+1 is still intact. Also wonder why Evvie didn't use her shot in the dark - if it had worked, Xander's sole vote would have sent Liana home.

Liana gets points for moxie for trying to get Xander to let her hold his extra vote. Xander gets points for not being a complete idiot and falling for it

Not sure why Shan thinks Erika is such a mastermind. She saw one or two glimpses of strategic thinking in early eps, which is why her own tribe was willing to let her go (if they had ever gone to TC), but we've seen nothing since then to suggest that she is dangerous in this game.

I'm ready for folks to wake up and start targeting Shan.

 

[Prancer]

Naseer and Evvie both took their boots really well. Most people seem to be really enjoying the game for the sake of the game, which usually results in good play.

It always amazes me how people in the game will say things like "X is getting in my way" in this indignant sort of way, like "How dare X!" Of COURSE X is out to slit your throat; that's the entire point of this game.

I liked Liana at first, but now it's . I mean, really, asking Xander for his extra vote? Did she actually think that would work? She's no Parvati.

I LOL when that giant bug landed on Tiffany right on cue . That was great.

 

[smurfy]

Such a crazy episode.
I was shocked how the 4 went off and chatted right in front of everyone. Not sure if Ricard was there.
I must have missed earlier that Ricard was deaf in one ear, but now I feel like I understand some looks he had - he was busy lipreading where I thought he was spacing out before. I liked him at first, then not as much, but now like him.
I just want Shan gone and Liana. I still have to remind myself that she is a pastor. After this show, why would anyone want to confide/get counsel from her.
Jamesy - good point on the insurance with the extra vote.

Ponderosa with Naseer and Evvie was very nice. And with Tiffany - they are enjoying themselves and with Naseer and Tiffany - I think seeing the real them and how likeable they are. Evvie has always seemed likeable to me.

I am so spoiled with binging shows and hate waiting week to week. And I don't want to binge Survivor knowing it is available and fun to chat with you all.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Jeff: other than a few birds chirping, not a single sound.

Me: except for your constant yammering!! Shut up Jeff!!!

 

[DaveRocks]

Finally!! So happy Shan is gone. And she had an idol in her pocket!

 

[tony]

Well, the inevitable happened. All that editing between those two, of course one was going to be the demise of the other! And props to Ricard for probably coming away from the plan unscathed since basically everyone had the same idea in mind *except for the fact that Shan said that 'you get my vote' spiel, which I'm sure was a little shade.

I can see why people think Erika is a threat now, and Xander (idol and all) and Heather are kinda skating by without any focus. I still can't believe how many weeks he has gone without even really being mentioned.

Anyways, Shan was annoying with all of her airtime but I think she just really had (what she thought to be) a clear path to the end with people she actually wanted to get to the end with, but she was too aggressive and hyper in trying to have everyone else see it. She was super observant and was usually right in her perceptions. It's interesting she knew Erika and DeShawn had to be scheming, got clued in about Ricard, and still didn't play the idol. I wouldn't mind seeing her again in a later second chance/game changers/whatever season.

 

[Spikefan]

Great episode, I also would like to see Shan in a future season but fear she would have a huge target on her back. Her statement to Ricard definitely had a bit of shade.

I wish the four would have made it to the end but Shan is the one that messed that up, you can’t have a side piece that you conspire with.

 

[Jenny]

This is the first time that everyone but the targets were acting in unison, so big props to Ricard for pulling that off. Also for knowing the exact moment to break with Shan - last week or next might not have worked, this was the time.

However, he also won both challenges. Big target on him for that, and for which Xander is likely grateful because I think he might be holding back just a little, particularly when it's a reward challenge.

And agree that it was a shot at Ricard on her way out, but not sure she saw it that way. She's very smart no doubt, but also has a few blindspots and perhaps she thought she was giving him honest props?

Kinda at the thought of Shan at ponderosa now, still trying to control the game by telling the other jury members what she thinks is going on and how they need to vote in the end. Evvie honestly interested if not influenced as a student of the game, Tiffany rolling her eyes into the back of her head, and Naseer saying he's just happy to be there.

Love that Xander is the only one left with anything - both an immunity idol that everyone knows about, and an extra vote that I'm not sure anyone left in the game knows about. He's going to have to be very careful from here on out because he will be told a lot of lies to try and flush out that idol.

Wonder if there will be more summits now, or have they stripped the game down to no more idols and advantages and risks?

 

[Jenny]

Oh! Also wanted to dig into the always interesting "who gets picked to join the reward" moment. Obviously there was going to be an opportunity to choose 1 for sure, likely 2, 3 is a roll of the dice. So here's what he did:

First two - Heather and Shan. Guessing he was playing into Heather's sympathies because she likely did look at it as a lovely gift. Shan, in retrospect, I think he was trying to keep close, not let her mess up his plans back at the beach.
Third pick - Xander. My guess is that he wanted to keep him close too, because Xander is not openly aligned with anyone now.

Left behind - Erika, Danny, Deshawn and Liana. Ricard seems to be the fifth with the "culture alliance" as they are calling themselves, so perhaps interesting that he took Shan out of there to let them talk amongst themselves. Also definitely I think that he separated Liana from Shan. Erika remains the wild card in all this, to me at least. As others have noted, we're not seeing a lot of her game, but for some reason Shan really wanted her gone (which also, guess there's no Canadian solidarity there ).

 

[love skating]

Thanks for the Ponderosa info, I never watch it so it's nice to know the dynamics going on there. Shan was a good player but overplayed her hand. She was just way too controlling and it made her own alliances turn on her. She was entertaining though. Funny when she started humming her "up to no good" tune. I'm not sure Ricard getting her out was the best move - the biggest move yes, but he decided to work with the guys who were planning to get him out (Danny and DeShawn). We'll see how long he lasts. Xander's got to love this though, he's avoiding all the crossfire. But he's got to be aware cause they just got rid of the other two with idols!

 

[Jenny]

Just realizing what I was imagining ponderosa was like with Shan read like I knew so I edited my post. I haven't seen any ponderosa, recall that in previous years I couldn't always access the videos anyway.

Sorry for the mix up!

 

[PeterG]

I'm not sure Ricard getting her out was the best move - the biggest move yes, but he decided to work with the guys who were planning to get him out (Danny and DeShawn). We'll see how long he lasts.

Shan and Liana voted for Erika, so the two of them were still working with a voting block which included Danny, DeShawn and Ricard. These five could have picked off Xander, then Erika and then Heather.

Now that Danny and DeShawn have turned on Liana, she is a lone wolf. Liana might align with Ricard...it would be smart for Ricard to reach out to Liana, "We've both lost our best friend".

So Danny and DeShawn targetted Ricard and then targeted Liana (and Shan as well). Now they are a power couple with no alliances. Nobody will like Danny and DeShawn now for what they have done and nobody will like them as a power couple. I expect they will be the next two to go. I would like to see Xander, Erika and Heather work as a trio and bring in Liana and Ricard to form a new top five. And then get rid of both of them after they have been used to get rid of DeShawn and Danny.

By the way, any thoughts on why Shan and Ricard never committed to a final two deal? They seem to genuinely like each other, maybe even love each other as friends if that is possible in such a short amount of time.

 

[genevieve]

whee! this was definitely the "right" Survivor move - although I also see the whole big picture question. Seeing Shan align so hard with the culture alliance - and then the F2 with Liana - and then her clear alliance with Ricard that she wasn't willing to let go of yet. She just had too many irons in the fire for this stage of the game.

Interesting that the whole breakdown of the culture alliance came about because Liana spilled the beans, but we only saw anyone irate at Shan for spilling the beans to Ricard. Clearly Shan only found out through Liana. Maybe Danny's discomfort with splitting votes was only momentary and realizing that their initial plan was foiled via Liana made him see that breaking up Shan/Liana was critical.

I kind of love that DeShawn had no hesitation whatsoever straight up lying about targeting Ricard, and then in his confessional was all, I mean, he's not wrong, but the problem here is Shan interfering in my game.

Reward: Xander soooooo threw that challenge I mean, maybe he wouldn't have won the puzzle anyway, but who was he kidding with how tangled up he got in those ropes? Ricard's choices: of course he would pick Shan first - for the reasons he stated and to reassure her that she's his #1 and to separate her from the other members of the alliance during that time. Heather was a safe choice - she's just deadwood in the game. Xander was an interesting choice and seemed the most jury-baiting, but also, having someone with no alliances is better than pulling someone else from the culture alliance. Who knows, maybe Ricard was banking on Erika getting crafty, and figured she'd be more successful than Xander.

Immunity: All of Jeff's chatter! I was thinking maybe Ricard's partial deafness is an advantage in some of these challenges that require so much concentration

That was a masterful TC. I was a little worried when Danny intoned that maaaaaybe the people working together aren't the ones you think (dude, zip it!), but it went off beautifully, Heather managed to not go off on some sudden tangent, and the person most obsessed with flushing idols went home with one in her pocket. The dramatik slo-mo final vote cracked me up. For sure shade for Ricard on her way out. I will miss Shan - she played a little too hard, a little too fast but I really enjoyed her this season.

Ricard got so many (deserved) kudos this ep (including from the jury) that surely he is the next to go, yes?

 

[Jenny]

Ricard got so many (deserved) kudos this ep (including from the jury) that surely he is the next to go, yes?

Oh definitely I think, for a lot of reasons. He's a challenge threat without a doubt, and further he just showed that he was willing to betray his strongest ally - how does anyone trust him after that?

I wonder now how much the others will credit him, or if they just saw it as a good opportunity to get rid of Shan while she had the trust of Ricard not to use the idol?

And what of Liana now? She went along with it in the second vote, but I can see why she did. Doesn't mean she's not going to be resentful though.

I will say that I'm thankful that this game has finally moved on from the notions of a integrity, honesty and loyalty. Was it Ricard's confessional where he said "we've known each other for less than two weeks"? Indeed.

In the category of my fantasies, how awesome would it be if it turns out that Shan didn't leave with her idol, but rather gave it to either Ricard or Liana for whatever reason, and there's now a sekret idol in the game that no one else knows about? The way they're editing this season I could see the producers saving that for a dramatik reveal down the road.

 

[genevieve]

And what of Liana now? She went along with it in the second vote, but I can see why she did. Doesn't mean she's not going to be resentful though.

Liana and Shan didn't vote the 2nd time, as they were the only options

I will say that I'm thankful that this game has finally moved on from the notions of a integrity, honesty and loyalty. Was it Ricard's confessional where he said "we've known each other for less than two weeks"? Indeed.

It was DeShawn, talking about Shan's loyalty to Ricard, whom she'd known for 19 days at that point

 

[Jenny]

Right right right, Liana couldn't vote, I stand corrected!

 

[tony]

In the category of my fantasies, how awesome would it be if it turns out that Shan didn't leave with her idol, but rather gave it to either Ricard or Liana for whatever reason, and there's now a sekret idol in the game that no one else knows about? The way they're editing this season I could see the producers saving that for a dramatik reveal down the road.

The last few seasons, the producers have stopped showing each and every thing that happens and sometimes set up the suspense (ie the whole thing with Xander scheming ahead of time with a fake idol) but in Shan's goodbye message, she mentioned she still had the idol so I don't think it's happening this time.

 

[smurfy]

Glad Shan is gone and unsure of what will happen and looking forward to it.
i can totally see Shan think she can control the vote. I have to go watch Ponderosa.
Go Xander.

 

[Jenny]

Still loving this season! Thinking this ep was sort of the family visit, to make up for that. Lots of time on Danny, and I can't recall them ever showing pictures from childhood and back home before. It was a good story, but wondering why he got that much of a tribute when other people have their own stories too.

TC turned into a big discussion of the kind Jeff loves, and I must say Liana in particular was eloquent. Barely any time on strategy at all, no whispering, maybe they just didn't show it, or maybe it's because Shan wasn't participating . Or maybe they just all knew how it was going to go down before they got there, no discussion necessary.

Speaking which, Shan! She looked like she was in actual pain at times, and certainly dying to jump in and speak. And while we all talked about her saying Ricard's getting her vote last week, I totally missed that she had called Deshawn a snake.

But in the end Xander's still there . Assuming he played the extra vote because he wasn't sure of Erika's waffling and thought if she voted against Ricard then he'd force the tie and that Ricard would be better at a fire challenge, if that's what was going to happen. Also wondering if once Ricard lost the IC he bailed too - it looked like it happened real fast, and maybe Xander's concentration was broken when Ricard's fell - or maybe he thought that as long as Ricard doesn't have immunity then he's the bigger target and Xander would be safe. They didn't show any indication that he even considered playing his idol this round.

 

[Kasey]

I hadn't realize how much I found Shan annoying until this episode where she's gone (or at least silent). I liked the focus on Danny, although I agree, everyone has their story, and everyone should be showcased in such a way. I think Danny is just a generally nice guy, same with Xander and Deshawn.

I really like the diversity of this season, and the fact that that diversity has continued to survive up to this point.

Deshawn, how lucky was his pick? That was awesome though, I think it would have been a crappy way to go out. Wonder if Deshawn, Danny and Erika may work together next week? Or is Erika going to be satisfied that she's already in a final 4? She seems to be the wild card right now.

 

[Jenny]

Now that they have a growing jury sitting there watching them, I have to think that some are thinking beyond just getting to F3. Erika for sure - her one big move so far was handed to her as a choice that could go either way, so I think that's one reason she wanted Ricard out, because getting him out is a big move (along with him being a threat of course, because his case to the jury is very strong at this point).

Danny, nice guy that he is, doesn't have much of a case. Deshawn has tried to do some big stuff, but still seems so scattered to me, and not very strategic, more emotional. I think Xander has been strategic, but might have trouble stating his case to the jury because he sounds a bit too laid back most of the time.

As for Heather, interesting what Shan had to say about her in one of her exit interviews:

And Heather rubbed me, and I would say a number of people, the wrong way when we were just out there on that island. I just got an icky feeling from her. But yeah, so that was my whole thing with Heather was, is I just didn't want to play with her. And then also, I just felt like she was a vote for Erika, if Erika ever tried to want to make a move. And it didn't make sense to keep Heather, because I don't believe in bringing goats to the end. I just don't. I don't think it's good gameplay, but it is what it is.

 

[tony]

I didn't mind the focus on Danny. He's really gotten very little coverage all season (because of being on a team that never went to tribal) and it was a sentimental story for him topped off by winning immunity. Liana said something that I'm sure all of the Facebook groups are fuming about: how people want to 'just watch Survivor' and not get into these sociological talks, but Jeff, even though he says it often, is right that this game is a reflection of the real world.

Still don't know why they aren't even questioning trying to flip on Xander. I get Ricard being the target, but if he's not the option anymore then pin it on someone like Liana as a sure thing and get Xander out. I want him to win but at this point, to spice up the game, I'm kinda hoping DeShawn does pull him into some mini-alliance just to get him out of the game before he uses his idol.

Heather seems like the perfect final three candidate a la Noura from a few seasons ago, but I don't think she will be winning the final immunity But then again, she seems like an easy target for this do or die thing. I don't hate it, but it's also in a way giving Xander even more of a shield to get to the end. Wonder how long it will last.