Sotskova busted for doping

MsZem

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I guess the question becomes whether she was "retired" under the jurisdiction of RUSADA or WADA. It sounds like one has to take active measures to retire to no longer be subjected to such testing. I guess Sotskova could have simply refused and then go through whatever happens to an athlete when they refuse, but she chose to go to a clinic that was unauthorized to issue these certifications for TUE. Did she knowingly go to a shady clinic or did she think it was a legit place?
I'm curious about the timeline. Was it 1. Sotskova tests positive 2. Sotskova gets a clinic to issue her some retroactive authorization or 1. Sotskova gets a prescription 2. Sotskova, upon being told that she tested positive, produces it as justification? Because option 1 seems a lot more shady than option 2.

* I don't know if this is an over the counter medication, but even then it's possible to get a prescription for such a thing.
 

MacMadame

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Second, do we know that the clinic was shady?
A clinic that issues prescriptions that it's not authorized to issue is shady by definition.
Is it possible that it was perfectly legit but not authorized to issue certificates for the specific purpose of therapeutic use exemptions?
That is not a thing. It's RUSADA that decides if you get the TUE exception or not. You submit documents from your doctor as to why you need the drug in question. If RUSADA agrees, you get your TUE. If they don't, you don't.

Every time a skater gets busted for failing a drug test, the majority on this board find excuses for what happened and minimize it. That is not how you keep PEDs out of your sport. It also reminds me of all the people (thankfully a minority here) that make excuses every time someone in skating is accused of sexual abuse.
 

MsZem

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A clinic that issues prescriptions that it's not authorized to issue is shady by definition.
I don't think the reporting is very clear on what exactly was the authorization issue.

Every time a skater gets busted for failing a drug test, the majority on this board find excuses for what happened and minimize it. That is not how you keep PEDs out of your sport.
Sotskova is not a competitive skater. If she'd been careless or deceptive about these matters during her skating career, that would have been different. But is appears that she was mostly careless about her retirement paperwork, which is not a doping violation in itself.

It also reminds me of all the people (thankfully a minority here) that make excuses every time someone in skating is accused of sexual abuse.
I urge you to rethink this comparison. It's offensive.
 

Coco

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I don't see anyone making excuses for her. I just see people explaining why this does not - pending receipt of additional facts - make her a cheater in their eyes.

By definition, if someone is taking masking agents or PED, they need to be attempting to compete to be called cheaters.
 

MacMadame

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I urge you to rethink this comparison. It's offensive.
I find the excuses people make for dopers to be offensive. The Kostner incident was particularly vile when it came to all the reasons "poor Caroline" shouldn't be punished for aiding a known doper.
 

aka_gerbil

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I find the excuses people make for dopers to be offensive. The Kostner incident was particularly vile when it came to all the reasons "poor Caroline" shouldn't be punished for aiding a known doper.

I’m a big Kostner fan, and I felt for her making an incredibly stupid decision, but I never thought she shouldn’t have consequences.

I think what people are thinking and feeling about Sotskova is that she didn’t dope while competing. She wasn’t planning to dope to give herself a competitive advantage. She was done competing and had moved on to private non elite athlete citizen who is free to take whatever medicine they want. She failed to file a piece of paper to take her out of the pool. For that, 10 years seems like an excessive ban. There was no intent to dope and compete; she was retired and moved on from that stage in her life.

Yes, she should have filed her paperwork, but from the anecdote about Adam Rippon, she’s apparently not the first or only to not do that.
 
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rfisher

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I'm curious about the timeline. Was it 1. Sotskova tests positive 2. Sotskova gets a clinic to issue her some retroactive authorization or 1. Sotskova gets a prescription 2. Sotskova, upon being told that she tested positive, produces it as justification? Because option 1 seems a lot more shady than option 2.

* I don't know if this is an over the counter medication, but even then it's possible to get a prescription for such a thing.
It's prescription only in the US, but I think you may be able to get low doses OTC in other countries. Lasix can be a strong diuretic in higher doses. People will take it to lose weight (you pee it off and you can button those tight jeans for a day), but you have to be carefull as it depletes potassium and can have significant consequences. I can't think of any way it would be performance enhancing.
 

aka_gerbil

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It's prescription only in the US, but I think you may be able to get low doses OTC in other countries. Lasix can be a strong diuretic in higher doses. People will take it to lose weight (you pee it off), but you have to be carefull as it depletes potassium and can have significant consequences. I can't think of any way it would be performance enhancing.

When my grandmother was still alive, in her later years, there was an ongoing struggle to get the doses of her blood pressure medication, lasix, and potassium all balanced correctly.

Both of my parents and an uncle have been on it at certain points for different things. It’s not an uncommon medication for sure.
 

giselle23

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She allegedly tested positive for only a diuretic. Anyone who has danced in the last 40 years has probably known the benefit of a diuretic before a dancing competition. It's not to hide PEDs, put-leaze. Your muscles look sharper, more toned and defined. The only reason why they test for diuretics is that it can mask actual PEDs. Does Maria Sotskova look like she's taking PED? Hardly. Just trying to adjust her water weight before competition. But diuretics ARE NOT performance enhancing drugs. The drugs are only on the list because diuretics can mask a drug urine test.

But they are on the list. And taking diuretics before a dancing (or skating) competition may not be considered performance-enhancing but it doesn't sound very safe to me.
 

rfisher

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When my grandmother was still alive, in her later years, there was an ongoing struggle to get the doses of her blood pressure medication, lasix, and potassium all balanced correctly.

Both of my parents and an uncle have been on it at certain points for different things. It’s not an uncommon medication for sure.
I gave it to my son to help pull off peripheral fluid and reduce the chances of pulmonary edema. We had to use oral potassium as well to counter the sodium losses. It's possible she used this to fit into her wedding dress, but it's risky taking more than a dose or two, especially at higher dose levels. Long term use is a delicate balance. Given the drug and the circumstances, this seems like an unfortunate series of events and I hate that for her.
 

MsZem

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I find the excuses people make for dopers to be offensive. The Kostner incident was particularly vile when it came to all the reasons "poor Caroline" shouldn't be punished for aiding a known doper.
The Kostner incident may have been vile and offensive to you, but disagreeing with you on that is in no way comparable to people making excuses for sexual predators.

BTW, Carolina Kostner was not doping, covering for Schwazer did not benefit her in any way (his conduct suggests that he was no great prize), and if he'd had a non-athlete girlfriend, she would not have been sanctioned for what happened. Given the rules Kostner agreed to play by as an athlete she deserved to be sanctioned, but IMO not to the extent that actual dopers are.

Back to Sotskova's case: anti-doping rules are simply not relevant for a retired skater trying to lose weight. Sotskova should have sorted out her retirement properly, but this is a minor thing and she does not deserve to be labeled a doper when there is no evidence that she ever cheated, knowingly or unknowingly, in her competitive days.
 
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MacMadame

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but disagreeing with you on that is in no way comparable to people making excuses for sexual predators.
It's not the disagreeing. It's the making up of scenarios to excuse the behavior. Oh, she must have been trying to lose weight for her wedding! Did she actually say this? No. It's an excuse to minimize the behavior.
 

MsZem

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It's not the disagreeing. It's the making up of scenarios to excuse the behavior. Oh, she must have been trying to lose weight for her wedding! Did she actually say this? No. It's an excuse to minimize the behavior.
There's no need to excuse or minimize Sotskova's behavior because she is not a competitive athlete. She should have sent in the appropriate paperwork about her retirement, but she was not competing and had no intention of doing so again. Therefore, it's completely irrelevant why she took a commonly used diuretic; it's none of our business.

And if you think that finding some antidoping enforcement an overreach is akin to excusing sexual assault, I don't know what to say to you.
 

mumboman

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It's prescription only in the US, but I think you may be able to get low doses OTC in other countries. Lasix can be a strong diuretic in higher doses. People will take it to lose weight (you pee it off and you can button those tight jeans for a day), but you have to be carefull as it depletes potassium and can have significant consequences. I can't think of any way it would be performance enhancing.
1kg lost in some sports over 1 hour in a hilly profile endurance sport can be 15 seconds of time, so thus this would be the very definition of performance enhancing(taking a diuretic and peeing out the weight). Sotskova probably using it for personal reasons, but the paperwork is not sorted out properly so if she wants to coach she will have to wait now.
 

Bigbird

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Sad. And sadder yet that so many just have not been caught yet. Russia's insane demands for girls to all look like stick figures is oppressive. I truly wish more of the girls just had the presence of mind to simply walk away. Now what?
 

DELTA

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Sad. And sadder yet that so many just have not been caught yet. Russia's insane demands for girls to all look like stick figures is oppressive. I truly wish more of the girls just had the presence of mind to simply walk away. Now what?

It's sad to see that people think Russia is the only one. Abuse of TUE is so rampant in "civilized west."
 

Frau Muller

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Quite an alarming title on this thread: Sotskova Busted for Doping! I could picture SWAT police surrounding her home, busting down the door and putting handcuffs on her. Good grief.

She’s since married and moved on. Happy times ahead for Maria. 😃
 

Bigbird

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It's sad to see that people think Russia is the only one. Abuse of TUE is so rampant in "civilized west."
I understand that it is also in the west. But somehow it seems particularly sad in Russian circles. I am glad that Tessa Virtue spoke about her own struggles so openly with the constant comparisons and questions about body fat content, bla, bla, bla. But I admired her tenacity and the work she did to get into shape for her Olympics healthily.

I know that many ladies and guys in the west struggle all the time. I remember Adam Rippon talking about it from time to time. But IMHO, what they do not have to the same intensity that it is done in Russia is the public body shaming that takes place in the Russian press with coaches, technical specialists and even team mates calling you out for being "fat". That is low and for my sensibilities, that is oppressive.
 

Tinami Amori

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RUSADA "We are very sorry that the information about Sotskova was spread in public. We had nothing to do with it".

Ilya Auerbuch "Besides this situation, Maria had several red flags for previous infractions of missing doping tests. Such irresponsibility later contributes to Russian team to not have a flag during the Olympics"
 
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angi

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Ilya Auerbuch "Besides this situation, Maria had several red flags for previous infractions of missing doping tests. Such irresponsibility later contributes to Russian team to not have a flag during the Olympics"
Sure, Sotskova contributed to the Russian ban in 2018 and not the institutionalized doping system that was put in place for the Sochi Olympics. You have to love this logic (not to take away from what Sotskova allegedly did, but come on).
 

MacMadame

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But she is retired. Why does it bother you so much what she decided to put in her body now?
Since all my complaints are about the response and not about her, I don't see how you get that out of my posts.

Though I do seem to remember she's had issues with doping controls before. So I don't see her has some innocent who just happened not to fill out some paperwork.

It's sad to see that people think Russia is the only one. Abuse of TUE is so rampant in "civilized west."
Especially in Track and Field.

And the fans of those sports make excuses about that too. They are basically saying "Doping is bad! (Unless my guy does it.)"

Also, people are so sure that skaters don't dope and it's true that traditional doping such as taking anabolic steroids is not going to give figure skaters an edge, but I am seeing signs that skaters have figured out other drugs that can improve performance. Or at least that they think that there are newer drugs that will improve performance. Such as meldonium.
 

Coco

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Who the f is Ilya A. to speak out against her in this way? That is nasty! Totally piling on that makes me suspicious as to his motives and the leaker's motives.

If she had such an extensive history, why was she allowed to go to Pyeongchang when others with no public history of issues were not?
 
D

Deleted member 40371

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Who the f is Ilya A. to speak out against her in this way? That is nasty! Totally piling on that makes me suspicious as to his motives and the leaker's motives.

If she had such an extensive history, why was she allowed to go to Pyeongchang when others with no public history of issues were not?
Exactly, there is no way in hell he will come to get such information. If he gets this information, then it is very troubling. I agree no way will she have allowed to compete if she had any form of doping infraction. What a complete idiot Ilya is.
 

PeterG

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It's sad to see that people think Russia is the only one. Abuse of TUE is so rampant in "civilized west."

We in the west do not use drugs. Rather, we like long, healthy bicycle rides.

Averbukh left her a pretty nasty comment on her Insta too

Why not? We men have a fabulous history of telling you ladies "what's what". It would be wrong to deny this God-given right.
 

Willin

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Wow. I am sorry but this sounds a bit ridiculous. So they tested a retired skater, and found out that she took diuretics to lose weight? Well, I am glad that they managed to obtain another proof how evil those Russians are. Another proof or drug abuse! Seriously? Is that really worth messing up with her future career?
Well then she should've filed the paperwork earlier. Not an example of evil Russians, more an example of her not being careful.


Lasix is NOT a PED. It is a diuretic, which promotes urination. For some drugs it is a masking agent for the real PEDs, which is why Lasix is banned. My dancer friends in college would take it before every audition. I feel badly for Maria. She doesn't need this abuse. And maybe she didn't even know what Buyanova recommended.
No medication is without consequences. Your friends (and Maria) put themselves at serious risk. This medication can cause things like low blood pressure (dizziness, fainting) and low potassium (muscle cramping, nausea/vomiting, arrhythmia, death). Lasix shouldn't be taken willy nilly for weight loss. The only people who truly need lasix are far too sick to be doing any high level skating or dancing. Maybe this is also why the clinic wasn't licensed - it was some pill mill for weight loss rather than, you know, a legit medical clinic trying to help people?

And if your friends felt the need to take it prior to auditions how isn't it performance-enhancing? I'm sure they wouldn't take it if they didn't feel it would enhance their performance in the audition (as far as booking the job). In skating I could see it helping certain skaters - after all an Eteri skater talked about needing to minimize water weight before competitions. Not saying it should be banned for that reason, but playing devil's advocate.

What I don't understand is didn't Yuri Larionov also test positive for furosemide and he only got 18 months (reduced from two years)? And that was while actively competing. He got to go to the Olympics the year after. Sotskova would be banned from the next three Olympics. I knew that times have changed and they are making an example of her but it seems way disproportionate to the offense.

I also haven't read anything about her participating in any sort of adjudication or defense process so I'm assuming she can still appeal the length.
Well, RUSADA doesn't want to make an example of a competing athlete, do they? Much easier to show they're tough on doping by bringing the hammer down on someone that's retired.
 

ЭPiKUilyam

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Well, RUSADA doesn't want to make an example of a competing athlete, do they? Much easier to show they're tough on doping by bringing the hammer down on someone that's retired.

Yeah, I'm incredulous that RUSADA didn't level a LIFETIME BAN just to show how hard they are on their own competitive Olympians!!! (Except she was really NEVER competitive and certainly not in the last two years....). But yeah, use Maria Sotskova as the example of how they police their competitive Olympic athletes. Right.
 

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