Slutskaya complains about 2002 and 2006 Olympic Placements

[Vagabond]

Sometimes I think she’s under orders to do so. To remind Russians that she wuzrobbed and Russians are always getting robbed. Explaining ahead of time why Petrosian doesn’t have a gold medal.

I think she volunteered for the cause. There is nothing in her history to suggest otherwise.

 

[Vagabond]

Is Slutskaya bringing it up proactively, or are journalists calling her because it's nearing the Olympics and asking her the same old questions to get an easy story? Genuinely asking; it's hard to tell.

Does it really matter? She has been telling the same old story every chance she gets. She is also pro-war and pro-Putin, so it all goes hand in hand.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I agree that it doesn't matter. If asked, she has the choice about how she answers. For example: "I've made my position clear before, many times. Next question?" "That was then, this is now. There are new skaters to watch now. How about that Petrossian?"

 

[caseyedwards]

I dunno I think the skaters all being within like a point of each other after the SP just like Sochi seems fishy to me. I'm not saying Shizuka shouldn't have won she was the best of the worst podium I can remember. I'm talking about the performances, not the skaters skills themselves.

Yes quite absurd!! Who was arakawa? She was last good in 2004 worlds. Quite suspicious for her to be Sasha irina level all of a sudden

Sometimes I think she’s under orders to do so. To remind Russians that she wuzrobbed and Russians are always getting robbed. Explaining ahead of time why Petrosian doesn’t have a gold medal.

Your post illustrates the extreme hatred of Russians that makes the robbed mindset correct

 

[Fiero425]

Does it really matter? She has been telling the same old story every chance she gets. She is also pro-war and pro-Putin, so it all goes hand in hand.

What? If it's true, it's true! She was robbed! IDK anything about her politics or why anyone would bring it up in this instance! The scoring in Fig. Skt. has always been in dispute, going back to the days of Janet Lynn!

 

[Private Citizen]

She is also pro-war and pro-Putin, so it all goes hand in hand.

Ah, I did not know that. I've been avoiding most of the Russian threads. Disappointed to learn this and it does add context.

 

[Lanie]

I still think if Worlds had been anywhere else but Moscow in 2005, Sasha would have won.

 

[caseyedwards]

No way !! I disagree slutskayaa had skate of her life ! Being in Moscow took pressure off cohen. That’s why she was the best she had been but you take her out of Moscow and she falls a lot

 

[Vagabond]

What? If it's true, it's true! She was robbed! IDK anything about her politics or why anyone would bring it up in this instance! The scoring in Fig. Skt. has always been in dispute, going back to the days of Janet Lynn!

Janet Lynn never went around claiming that she was robbed or spouting xenophobic conspiracy tropes. She  did used to say that she was skating for herself, that she she wanted to skate her best, and that she was pleased when she did. Slutskaya would do well to be as gracious and sporting as Lynn.

 

[Fiero425]

Janet Lynn never went around claiming that she was robbed or spouting xenophobic conspiracy tropes. She  did used to say that she was skating for herself, that she she wanted to skate her best, and that she was pleased when she did. Slutskaya would do well to be as gracious and sporting as Lynn.

That was a different era! Plus, false modesty is an American trait! Irina's Russia & just being real!

 

[caseyedwards]

That was a different era! Plus, false modesty is an American trait! Irina's Russia & just being real!

So true. No one in American sports now can ever say they are the best and deserve anything like gold medal even if they are Chen and Malinin

 

[jägerbomb]

I always preferred Butyrskaya to Slutskaya, even when it was less fashionable. That posture and lack of stretch....I'm sure that still haunts Peggy Flemming's nightmares.

I suppose one can make an argument for Slutskaya to win 2002, based on the short program, but at the end of the day the medalists were correct.

Slutskaya's 2006 bronze was an absolute gift. Forget the poor technical content, that flamenco program was hideous. What was she thinking.

 

[VGThuy]

If Slutskaya placed first in the SP in SLC, and if they all skated the same way, a few of those judges would have placed her third in the LP to give Hughes the gold. I have nothing to prove this but it’s a strong feeling I have. The skate orders would have been different due to the order of draws were determined by SP placement order.

 

[jamesy]

The scenario of "Irina wins the OGM if she won the short program" works if you assume that everyone skates the same and the judges also rank them in the same order. I also wonder if they had skated the same way, would some judges have swapped marks around to ensure Hughes as the winner.

 

[Vagabond]

I also wonder if they had skated the same way, would some judges have swapped marks around to ensure Hughes as the winner.

According to , Irina Slutskaya has spent many a sleepless night pondering the answer to this exact question.

 

[Chen40]

Slutskaya to me was good in her early years, after 00- I did not like her skating. Personally as much as I was not a fan of Hughes and Arakawa I dont think Slutskaya deserved anything higher and she was often overmarked in this era as well.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

And of course, Sarah Hughes in SLC. Tara Lipinski in Nagano.

And Tara Lipinski at 1997 Worlds.

 

[tony]

If Slutskaya placed first in the SP in SLC, and if they all skated the same way, a few of those judges would have placed her third in the LP to give Hughes the gold. I have nothing to prove this but it’s a strong feeling I have. The skate orders would have been different due to the order of draws were determined by SP placement order.

If we are complete hypothetical here, though, Hughes should have been much lower than the 4th she was handed in the short. Butyrskaya was a shade of her former self but she still rotated her triples and skated a clean program. Suguri also should've been higher-- she was flip-flopped out of the final group because of the last skater as it is. Sebestyen too even with her outside-edge flip. Gusmeroli even makes an argument in 10th as her only real deduction should've come from the lack of steps into the flip.

I liked Sarah more than most did and think she should've run away with the free skate by a massive margin, but I also would've been perfectly satisfied with her being 8th or 9th in the short. Would she have won the free skate then? Maybe not. And then it brings up the question of how creative the judges would've been to get the gold medalist they wanted with the messes we saw. For all we know, Suguri could've skated last and gotten big scores.

 

[Fiero425]

If we are complete hypothetical here, though, Hughes should have been much lower than the 4th she was handed in the short. Butyrskaya was a shade of her former self but she still rotated her triples and skated a clean program. Suguri also should've been higher-- she was flip-flopped out of the final group because of the last skater as it is. Sebestyen too even with her outside-edge flip. Gusmeroli even makes an argument in 10th as her only real deduction should've come from the lack of steps into the flip.

I liked Sarah more than most did and think she should've run away with the free skate by a massive margin, but I also would've been perfectly satisfied with her being 8th or 9th in the short. Would she have won the free skate then? Maybe not. And then it brings up the question of how creative the judges would've been to get the gold medalist they wanted with the messes we saw. For all we know, Suguri could've skated last and gotten big scores.

There are so many instances where fig. skat. scoring has been literally abusive to our sensibilities! How many times has there been a collective "eye roll" by all concerned after some comps? Luckily w/ the men today, Malinin clearly defeats his comp. like no other in recent memory! We've all given examples above how shady things "can be" in judging in yrs. gone by, it was almost embarrassing! Let me hark back:

Over 20 yrs. ago, Maria Butyrskaya was still competing in the GP! IIRC, she was favored to take Trophy LaLique in 2000 & it was destined to be her Gold medal to take regardless of all the other performances! Jenny Kirk was skating for us & hit everything cleanly, actually finishing her LP w/ a 3-Lutz! It was obscenely good for such a young girl at the time! Maria flopped all over the place, stole GOLD while Jenny was award Bronze! She "hadn't established herself internationally" is how most of us reason it out, but why should we have to do that? It's not the only sport that judging can be very subjective; gymnastics, diving, & other sports do, but I can't recall much too egregious in their results!

Karma got Butyrskaya back though! Around the same time, she went H2H against Irina Slutskaya in Japan at the NHK Trophy! Irina made an error & all Maria had to do was stay on her feet! She laid down one of her best performances hitting 2 triple Lutzes! Her 3-Loop was her normal "go to" when doing 2 of a particular jump, but she felt she needed that little bit extra! It wasn't enuf and Irina stole GOLD! Maria was crushed, but I remembered Jenny & smiled!

 

[VGThuy]

If we are complete hypothetical here, though, Hughes should have been much lower than the 4th she was handed in the short. Butyrskaya was a shade of her former self but she still rotated her triples and skated a clean program. Suguri also should've been higher-- she was flip-flopped out of the final group because of the last skater as it is. Sebestyen too even with her outside-edge flip. Gusmeroli even makes an argument in 10th as her only real deduction should've come from the lack of steps into the flip.

I liked Sarah more than most did and think she should've run away with the free skate by a massive margin, but I also would've been perfectly satisfied with her being 8th or 9th in the short. Would she have won the free skate then? Maybe not. And then it brings up the question of how creative the judges would've been to get the gold medalist they wanted with the messes we saw. For all we know, Suguri could've skated last and gotten big scores.

If we’re going to alter history that much, then my hypothetical has Kwan having her best skate of the season (she was still capable of doing 7-triple programs). I mean this hypo is already asking a lot by cornering us into the situation that everyone was going to skate the same way with the SP rankings and skating orders changed. Anyway, Kwan deserved to win the SP, and I don’t care what anyone says. Irina can keep her Olympic SP second places.

 

[Private Citizen]

If we are complete hypothetical here, though, Hughes should have been much lower than the 4th she was handed in the short. Butyrskaya was a shade of her former self but she still rotated her triples and skated a clean program. Suguri also should've been higher-- she was flip-flopped out of the final group because of the last skater as it is. Sebestyen too even with her outside-edge flip. Gusmeroli even makes an argument in 10th as her only real deduction should've come from the lack of steps into the flip.

I liked Sarah more than most did and think she should've run away with the free skate by a massive margin, but I also would've been perfectly satisfied with her being 8th or 9th in the short. Would she have won the free skate then? Maybe not. And then it brings up the question of how creative the judges would've been to get the gold medalist they wanted with the messes we saw. For all we know, Suguri could've skated last and gotten big scores.

ITA. Would Hughes have received the same marks in the penultimate group and would they have held up? I doubt it. Didn’t some judges have her third or fourth in the free skate as it was? I think she’d have been third in the free and off the podium entirely had the judges seen the short program the same way you, I, and Tatiana Danilenko did.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Perhaps I am a party of one here, but I am totally fine with Hughes fourth place placement in the short program.

 

[Fiero425]

If we’re going to alter history that much, then my hypothetical has Kwan having her best skate of the season (she was still capable of doing 7-triple programs). I mean this hypo is already asking a lot by cornering us into the situation that everyone was going to skate the same way with the SP rankings and skating orders changed. Anyway, Kwan deserved to win the SP, and I don’t care what anyone says. Irina can keep her Olympic SP second places.

I loved Irina's "Serenade" short program from the 1st time she performed it "down under" at the 2001 Goodwill Games!

 

[just tuned in]

If we are complete hypothetical here, though, Hughes should have been much lower than the 4th she was handed in the short. Butyrskaya was a shade of her former self but she still rotated her triples and skated a clean program. Suguri also should've been higher-- she was flip-flopped out of the final group because of the last skater as it is. Sebestyen too even with her outside-edge flip. Gusmeroli even makes an argument in 10th as her only real deduction should've come from the lack of steps into the flip.

I liked Sarah more than most did and think she should've run away with the free skate by a massive margin, but I also would've been perfectly satisfied with her being 8th or 9th in the short. Would she have won the free skate then? Maybe not. And then it brings up the question of how creative the judges would've been to get the gold medalist they wanted with the messes we saw. For all we know, Suguri could've skated last and gotten big scores.

If you have the time, Tony, how would the results have looked under IJS?

 

[tony]

If you have the time, Tony, how would the results have looked under IJS?

Super, super hypothetical because we would be looking at PCS through a lens that wasn’t even established yet. And would it be the 2005 PCS with five different criteria (hello, transitions being worth just as much as skating skills) or the condensed, current three-criteria model? And the spins and step sequences would be leveled as opposed to just getting through them with 8 rotations or going board-to-board or whatever other minimal requirements there were.

From a jump standpoint, I think Hughes obviously suffers with rotations in the short program that would put her quite a ways back, while Kwan would also get hit with it. Slutskaya surely would’ve run away with the short because she checked all the boxes before they were there to check, even with spins and the one-foot step sequence that wasn’t exactly revolutionary, but at least offering more complexity than most skaters opted for then. Butyrskaya comes away with a high score probably because of both flip and Lutz being on a very clear correct edge, and her flying camel really was a thing of beauty.

I used to like to do these rescoring things but using a completely different system that has changed so much since it started, it’s kinda like what’s the point now?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

When it comes to 2002 sometimes I wonder about Cohen being on the podium instead.

Of slutskaya

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

and that probably would’ve been the closest to an Olympics American podium sweep.

 

[Karen-W]

and that probably would’ve been the closest to an Olympics American podium sweep.

Are you positing that Kwan & Cohen would have gone 1-2, with Hughes 4th? Because that's the only placement that would have beat the 1-3-4 placement achieved by Yamaguchi, Kerrigan & Harding in 1992.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Are you positing that Kwan & Cohen would have gone 1-2, with Hughes 4th? Because that's the only placement that would have beat the 1-3-4 placement achieved by Yamaguchi, Kerrigan & Harding in 1992.

Yeah I need to let it cook more because I was also thinking about 1992 as well. Sometimes I think 2002 should’ve went Hughes, Kwan and Cohen on the podium. Irina stiff landings and a lower artistic mark are what I would’ve gone with.

 

[Vagabond]

Would anyone care to speculate as to the results in Salt Lake City if there had been Compulsory Figures before the Short Program?