Skaters and retirement

[Aussie Willy]

This article came up on my Facebook.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/07/19/190304204?tcid=fb_share

It discusses about skaters retiring and has interviews with Kimmie Meissner and Rachel Flatt.

Quite a relevant topic here in Australia recently as there have been many high profile athletes who had problems after their careers are over which have been focus of programs dealing with the subject. Swimmers like Grant Hackett have had problems with alcohol and drugs and basketballer Lauren Jackson suffered severe depression.

We do put a lot of pressure on high performance athletes and have great expectations from them. But it can take an emotional toll on them when they are either forced to retire or step down and then don't have the same routines or focus that got them to where they are.

I think you can only hope that after they do retire that they find their way in the world which many seem to do.

 

[TAHbKA]

Interview with Vaytskehovskaya, she talks about the same:
Q: I know you were quite down for a long while...
EV: As an athlete I never thought what will come next. When you retire suddenly there is so much time on your hands. It's awful for someone whose life used to be scheduled by minutes. You wake up and don't have to get up, you don't have to do a thing and might as well stay in bed for the rest of the day. You lye and think `I should go somewhere'. But where? No one needs you. Not because people are mean, just those who used to be part of your life keep the routine you dropped out from. It's so confusing. To understand what you want is even harder - you want something real, you want adrenaline. I don't think the adrenaline addiction is easier than drugs, it's just that the drugs destroy you.

Q: Is the switch from the professional sport to a different profession easier today?
EV: No. I recently interviewed Maksim Trankov and he said the same: I thought it would be easier but am not needed. That's it, life is over. The new life began. Most of the athletes don't have an education and those who do - it's on papers only. They also don't have much of an idea of life. And there are expectations: as an Olympic champion you are expected to perform, yet you are useless. It's so hard mentally: you used to be the best. Not only you are no longer the best - you are nothing.

 

[rfisher]

Very interesting. And, another reason I admire Kwan's determination to go to college and find a life for herself. I wonder how skaters like Wagner and Rippon who have done nothing but skate, will make the transition? And, explains skaters like Suguri who had nothing else to do and continued on into adult skating. Even Trankov, who likely has more professional opportunities in Russia, has mentioned several times the difficulty he's encountered since Sochi. Coaching and choreography aren't going to be available for all.

I follow professional surfing and Kelly Slater is a perfect example. He's now 45 and competing against the 20 year olds. He's finished in the top 10 every year, but he no longer wins the big money. Even with other business interests, it's a challenge to let go of the excitement of competition.

 

[MsZem]

Interview with Vaytskehovskaya, she talks about the same:
...
Q: Is the switch from the professional sport to a different profession easier today?
EV: No. I recently interviewed Maksim Trankov and he said the same: I thought it would be easier but am not needed. That's it, life is over. The new life began. Most of the athletes don't have an education and those who do - it's on papers only. They also don't have much of an idea of life. And there are expectations: as an Olympic champion you are expected to perform, yet you are useless. It's so hard mentally: you used to be the best. Not only you are no longer the best - you are nothing.

I don't know that this is necessarily true; some skaters do pursue serious academic or professional studies during their careers - people like Kozuka, Pechalat, or Preaubert a few years back don't have degrees that are only on paper. There are quite a few American skaters working towards academic degrees, even if not at a normal pace.

It's probably easier for skaters who see their future path in coaching and choreography, because there are a lot of opportunities there. I'm thinking of examples such as Scali, Bourzat, and Zuerlein who were on the other side of the boards almost as soon as they hung up their skates, or KvdP, Verner and Sebestyen who I'm pretty sure have all been to major competitions with skaters that they now coach.

Maybe the key takeaway is have an actual plan in place before retirement, and to start working towards it to whatever extent is possible - e.g., not just "I want to coach", but get relevant credentials and experience before retiring. And on the other hand, to recognize that this plan might need to be somewhat flexible and adaptable.

 

[TAHbKA]

I don't know that this is necessarily true; some skaters do pursue serious academic or professional studies during their careers - people like Kozuka, Pechalat, or Preaubert a few years back don't have degrees that are only on paper. There are quite a few American skaters working towards academic degrees, even if not at a normal pace.

It is necessarily true, because she says `most', not `all'

It's probably easier for skaters who see their future path in coaching and choreography, because there are a lot of opportunities there. I'm thinking of examples such as Scali, Bourzat, and Zuerlein who were on the other side of the boards almost as soon as they hung up their skates, or KvdP, Verner and Sebestyen who I'm pretty sure have all been to major competitions with skaters that they now coach.

Well, we've seen Trankov's choreography, and, frankly, if I never see it again....
Verner had his share of Pluschenko shows, where he was injured more than once, played a part of `a 4th dude who carries Slutskaya's chair' and what not before he landed the coaching job. Obviously am clueless what is his actual education and whether his coaching is a payed job and not a hobby.

Maybe the key takeaway is have an actual plan in place before retirement, and to start working towards it to whatever extent is possible - e.g., not just "I want to coach", but get relevant credentials and experience before retiring. And on the other hand, to recognize that this plan might need to be somewhat flexible and adaptable.

That's exactly what most of the Russians do - they all have those coaching diplomas. Think that's what Vaytsekhovskaya calls `on papers only'.
In general I don't see why is it such a big deal if a 20 something years old person has to decide what to do now with their lives. It's not like the non athletes are facing something different, just that it's less spoken of. When finishing the highschool/ graduating from the college we all face the `what do I do now with my life and with my diploma' decision and except for several lucky ones who started working before they finished their studies everyone faces the `am a specialist an no one needs me, where do I go' moments. The only difference is that the athletes do it publically...

 

[zebraswan]

It is necessarily true, because she says `most', not `all'

Well, we've seen Trankov's choreography, and, frankly, if I never see it again....
Verner had his share of Pluschenko shows, where he was injured more than once, played a part of `a 4th dude who carries Slutskaya's chair' and what not before he landed the coaching job. Obviously am clueless what is his actual education and whether his coaching is a payed job and not a hobby.

Tomas went to university for sports marketing & management, and he established his own skating school a couple years ago, the Czech Skating Academy.

http://www.czechskatingacademy.cz/

 

[CdnSk8Fan]

You can't say everyone in general has this transition even from school to the working world. It affects athletes and other high performers differently.
Think about this.. you've been training and training for that one dream and then to find out you've been there and done that or you've injured out and can't get to your dream goal. Even though the athlete may have a post-career plan and have/or completing post-secondary education, has issues with the transition. Some may do it better than others.

Regardless of the situation, it is a BIG transition to come out of that training mindset. You are used to a daily training regime and that no longer applies. Your body no longer accepts what would be a regular "workout" as your body will tell you "that's not enough". The athletes essentially need to go through the grieving stages as it is the end of a period in their life.

In Canada there have been several initiatives to help get athletes/dancers transitioned of which one is Leap Transition.
http://leaptransition.ca/
Another is My Game Plan
https://mygameplan.ca/introducing-game-plan-canadas-athlete-career-transition-program/

An article posted in My Game Plan
https://mygameplan.ca/the-athlete-transition-struggling-with-identity-after-sport/

Also one thing CBC and other media did very well during 2016 Rio Olympics was that there was a lot of coverage on the issues of transitioning. Let me tell you this was an eye opener.
A few of the articles / videos I had come across:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/transi...motional-turmoil-for-elite-athletes-1.2946671

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports...an-olympians-prepare-for-careers-after-sports

https://hub.olympic.org/library/education/

 

[MsZem]

It is necessarily true, because she says `most', not `all'

Well, we've seen Trankov's choreography, and, frankly, if I never see it again...

Well, I took Most of the athletes don't have an education and those who do - it's on papers only to mean that even the few skaters who do have an education don't have a real education, but it's not my translation

Trankov has crap taste and as such is not well-suited to doing choreo. But some skaters are - Jeff Buttle and John Kerr both come to mind.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

This was a very good piece. So many IN articles are just fluff. No real content.

 

[Sylvia]

For those interested, here was the GSD discussion thread started last year when Sarah Brannen's IN article originally was published (includes comments from former competitive skaters): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/life-after-skating.98966/

For the skaters who want to to stay in the sport after they retire and coach/choreograph at the grassroots level, the process usually starts before they stop skating -- Misha Ge is a great current example. I know Adam Rippon, Grant Hochstein, Caroline Zhang and Sean Rabbitt (just to name a few U.S. singles skaters still competing) have been laying the groundwork in recent years.

 

[Garden Kitty]

The article is from last year, and I recall some discussion about it when it was first published. A number of athletes are staring to open up about dealing with depression after retirement - a loss of a sense of identity and purpose and a fear they'll never find anything they feel passionate about again.

Although I hate to see my favorite skaters retire, I'm always happy when I read that they seem to be doing well in the next stage of their lives. For many, that's as big an accomplishment as their on ice achievements.

 

[MacMadame]

Well, I took Most of the athletes don't have an education and those who do - it's on papers only to mean that even the few skaters who do have an education don't have a real education, but it's not my translation

In Russia, this seems to be true. Giving skaters "scholarships" to "school" seems to be one way that athletes are funneled money so they can keep competing. In other countries, military service is used instead.

It's not true in the US though. Any skater who is going to college in the US is taking real classes with regular, non-elite athlete students. (This is why so many of them go part-time and take forever to get their degrees.) But even here there are sports in the US where it's true at some schools where that sport is a big part of how the school fundraises or self-identifies.

 

[Aussie Willy]

This is a news article about one of the shows that was shown on Australian TV. There were definitely some very concerning stories amongst them.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports...t/news-story/0e3d82e578779bf88cf02d226d85b881

Also here is a link to the show that was shown on Australian TV. Hope it works overseas because it is really interesting watching.

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/four-corners/NC1704H012S00

 

[Willin]

@Zemgirl I took that statement to be more about skaters in Russia (the person interviewed being Russian) than skaters around the world.

In the US, we have skaters that don't do college at all, those that do it at a slow pace, those that somehow do it at a regular pace while skating, and those that put off school until they stop skating. I think it's an individual choice for each skater, and probably has a lot to do with what they envision doing in retirement. Many, like Flatt, want to get a job and live normally. In fact, some of the skaters (well, more their parents) I know wanted to be elite for college app time - some changed that goal once the Olympics seemed realistic, while others didn't care and focused on college.

Personally, I know a lot of the elite skaters (past and more recent past) in my area have gone into athletic training, physical therapy, or skating coaching/choreography. Connections you gain can also help get USFS jobs if you have the right education - I know two former synchro skaters who got athletic training internships for USFSA and went on to do athletic training work for them as needed.

I always wonder what some skaters who retire without college degrees will do, but I think they'll be okay. Many coaches are retiring, opening holes for them to do that if they so choose. I think Ashley and Adam may have a stint doing shows in Asia for a while. Of course, just because they don't have degrees now doesn't mean they won't get them when they have time, so who knows what will happen. I also wonder how many skaters are going to school part-time that we don't know about...

 

[smurfy]

I always have wondered about the impact on their bodies when they stop training.
A good family friend - was a college level swimmer. Graduated college in spring, stopped swimming and in the fall was in a full time graduate program. By the winter - she was very depressed and calling her parents crying all the time. Within a year or so, via her school program, got into triathalons. She has graduated, working full time and trains hard for triathalons and seems fine.
To me and her mom - it seemed like her body was reacting to less exercise and it came out in stressful ways.

 

[MacMadame]

Of course, just because they don't have degrees now doesn't mean they won't get them when they have time

Like Sasha Cohen!

 

[lala]

Plushenko has/had many chances in civil life....but

In 1998 Plushenko graduated from high school. In 2005 he completed his studies at the St. Petersburg State University of Physical Culture ( named after P.F. Lesgaft now the National State University of Physical Education, Sport and Health named after PF Lesgaft) as a coach. In 2008 he graduated from the Faculty of Tourism and Hospitality of the St. Petersburg State University of Engineering and Economics.

He started his second degree because of his first wife's family. His first wife's father is a Russian billionair hotelier. They wanted to Plushy say goodbye to the skating and work in that business.( Masha was too jealous and I think too young to understand Plush really can't leave the ice. )
Plushenko's early plan was to make a skating academy, sportcomplexum. And he reached it now. He creates world class shows ( Snow King, Nutcracker, he and his team very innovative) Plush is not a simply retired skater. He really can't live without ice and he has every chance to make great things in figure skating in the feature.

Haters, you can't get rid of him! Plushenko's name will be in the figure skating for many years!

 

[Japanfan]

This thread brings Elvis Stojko to mind, as he retired very successfully. He moved to Mexico, separated himself completely from skating, and got involved in competitive dirt bike/motorcycle racing (don't remember which for sure) as his new sport. Then he fell in love with Mexican figure skating champion Gladys Orozco (sp?), and they eventually moved together to Canada.

Gladys was very involved in dog rescue in Mexico, and Elvis got involved in it as well. They continue to remain involved in dog rescue and have three rescue doggies themselves. Both have performed in shows, and Elvis has worked for the Canadian fed as a consultant offering workshops.

Amusing factoid - Toller Cranston also retired to Mexico, and made it very clear that he and Elvis inhabited entirely different worlds, he (Toller) living in the cosmopolitan city of San Miguel in the mountains, while Elvis lived at ground level, down there with the masses.

 

[TAHbKA]

Am sure there are quite a few success stories, the question is what happens to the majority? Say, a random Leonova - why on earth is she still skating?

 

[Yehudi]

My understanding is the coaching degrees in Russia are a joke. I know someone who was an "Honored Master of Sport" who only showed up to take exams.

 

[chapis]

If I were a skater, I would devote myself completely to skating and after retiring I would focus completely on studying a university career and other things of interest to me. I believe that these athletes who have problems after retirement are undecided people who would have similar difficulties if they had not been athletes.

 

[Vash01]

Very interesting thread

Debie Thomas went to medical school and became an Orthopedic surgeon, which meant helping other athletes recover from their injuries. Unfortunately her life took the wrong turn later.

Tenley Albright also became a physician and it seems she had a successful career off the ice.

Scott Hamilton founded Stars on Ice and offered 'retired' skaters to continue their on -ice career. However, that was limited to top level skaters. I wonder what the not so successful at the world level did?

Evan Lysacek left the ice completely after his OGM and got into real estate. Haven't heard much about him.

 

[Winnipeg]

There are quite a few skaters who have made successful transitions:

Kwan
Hughes (both)
Stojko (good for him re the dog rescue
Kadavy?
Rochette
Browning
boitano
Hamilton
Lipinski
Wier in his own way


Debbie Thomas should have been a success story, no idea what happened there although likely she is suffering an illness.

I think child actors may have an even harder time

 

[Enchanted]

What's Rochette doing now? Is she still studying?

 

[legjumper]

I think retirement can be difficult for any skater because skating takes up so much of their lives and then suddenly, it doesn't, but it seems to be especially tough psychologically/emotionally for skaters who love training and competing the most. For skaters who enjoy skating much more than competing, or who enjoy the creative side more than the training or competing, retirement can be a relief - they can still be involved in the skating world, skate in some shows, coach, etc., but now with the added bonus of freedom. But for skaters who are obsessed with being the best and thrive on the process of achieving that and LIVE to compete, there is nothing that can replace that. A skater can enjoy skating itself for decades, but the window for elite competition is small, and unfortunately, there is no longer a competitive pro scene where retired skaters can test themselves against their peers (like the Senior PGA, for example). I've often thought that it's a shame, because, for example, there are so many top quality male skaters who still have the bug and still have a lot to give to the sport, but they're past the peak for Olympic-level technical content. I bet if something like that existed, skaters like Plushenko and Lysacek would've jumped on that as fast as possible.

 

[AxelAnnie]

If I were a skater, I would devote myself completely to skating and after retiring I would focus completely on studying a university career and other things of interest to me. I believe that these athletes who have problems after retirement are undecided people who would have similar difficulties if they had not been athletes.

Undecided people? I think that would be the last descriptor I would use for an elite level athlete.

And, Debbie Thomas was laser focused on here career as a physician. I don't think her crash and burn had to do with her retirement from skating.

 

[MsZem]

A skater can enjoy skating itself for decades, but the window for elite competition is small, and unfortunately, there is no longer a competitive pro scene where retired skaters can test themselves against their peers (like the Senior PGA, for example). I've often thought that it's a shame, because, for example, there are so many top quality male skaters who still have the bug and still have a lot to give to the sport, but they're past the peak for Olympic-level technical content. I bet if something like that existed, skaters like Plushenko and Lysacek would've jumped on that as fast as possible.

Adults Worlds If it's good enough for Midori Ito, why not for other skaters?

 

[mag]

What's Rochette doing now? Is she still studying?

She is, at least in 2016, attending McGill University medical school.

 

[overedge]

Adults Worlds If it's good enough for Midori Ito, why not for other skaters?

Gary Beacom has been there for the last few years, and Fumie Suguri competed this year. And Jiri Pokorny, who competed for Czechoslovakia in ice dance in the 1970s (went to Olympics and Worlds), has competed at adult worlds several times as well.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Gary Beacom has been there for the last few years, and Fumie Suguri competed this year. And Jiri Pokorny, who competed for Czechoslovakia in ice dance in the 1970s (went to Olympics and Worlds), has competed at adult worlds several times as well.

Jiri has also come with his wife to our adult event in Australia. It is fantastic watching him doing solo dance.