Shibutanis thread 3: Evolution

[aftershocks]

it is understandable given the message

Obviously part of the message is that by hook or by crook, there is movement afoot to get B/S as close as possible to contending for at least the third spot on the Olympics podium. But why or why did Madi/Evan, and Madi/Zach have to unwittingly throw help to that not-so-secret campaign?

I could have lived with Madi/Evan dropping, and even Madi/Zach dropping to fourth with the Shibs taking bronze. But Madi/Zach in 9 place overall after all their hard work this season is like some kind of unbelievable Trumptastic-devised torture on the rack. How the hell in Helsinki will Madi/Zach ever recover from this outcome?

Meanwhile, go Shibs!!! Show 'em all that you can do 'abandon' with shock and awe, perfect technique and twizzle magic, like never seen before!

They bring home the only medal for the U.S.

For quite awhile in recent years, the U.S.'s only medals at Worlds have been in ice dance. The ladies medal drought at Worlds parched it's thirst briefly last year, and teased with a few squirts of possibility this year. The men's division is so quad hungry to the detriment of everything else, there's not nearly enough water or medals to go around.

Nathan slayed at U.S. Nats and 4CCs and sent a message to the rest of the men's field. But whatcha gonna do about new boots in your Worlds debut, except break them in and battle for all you're worth? That's what Nathan and Jason did, and they got back a third spot (unfairly taken away from U.S. men in Boston last year). The vastly despised U.S. pairs will hopefully come out of summer hibernation with at least some life and fight in them, even if their thirsts for the Olympics dream will be quenched for only one team.

 

[teacakes]

Which ice dance team other than V/M and P/C actually medaled at every event they entered this season? Won more than one international competition? Which other ice dance consistently scored more than 110 points in their FD this entire season? Which ice dance team actually has by far the third highest FD score this season?

Better yet, where's all the congratulations to Maia and Alex for ensuring that we have 3 spots for the Olympics? Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue's placements alone would have lost us a spot. Karen and Ashley and Nathan and Jason got all kinds of love for that and they didn't medal, but now the Shibs had a failing strategy this season and people are salivating at the thought that they will be left behind while Hubbell/Donohue are considered to be on an upward trajectory despite falling 3 spots from last year's Worlds. I sound harsh on H/D and I don't mean to be because I would have ranked them 2nd in the SD and love their qualities and I rewatched their Worlds Tron FD more than any other ice dance program from that Worlds other than Alex/Maia's. It's just so frustrating seeing the difference in reactions but it does show who the forum's faves have been and will always be.

TELL IT!

This needs to be a sticky post in every dance thread.

 

[Jessica]

Which ice dance team other than V/M and P/C actually medaled at every event they entered this season? Won more than one international competition? Which other ice dance consistently scored more than 110 points in their FD this entire season? Which ice dance team actually has by far the third highest FD score this season?

THE SHIBS

Better yet, where's all the congratulations to Maia and Alex for ensuring that we have 3 spots for the Olympics? Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue's placements alone would have lost us a spot.

I didn't realize this either. Congratulations Maia and Alex for your bronze medal and for keeping 3 spots.

This needs to be a sticky post in every dance thread.

Wonderful idea.

 

[firstflight]

I think the hardest part about what happened at worlds for Alex and Maia was that they had just come from 4CC where they were comfortably judged as the top US team. It was clear from their PCS. I doubt they knew when they finished skating the SD here at worlds what a low base score they would get. And I doubt they knew what they had done "wrong" so that Chock and Bates nudged over them in PCS too. It must frustrating to be getting an inconsistent message at the very end of the season heading into the Olympic year.

 

[clairecloutier]

Yes, I think any disappointment about the Shibs' performance at Worlds is simply due to expectations. Coming in, expectations were just really high. I think most people expected them to win bronze, and by quite a decent margin, and possibly even challenge for silver. Instead they wound up 5th in the SD, low scores in both programs compared to 4CCs, and winning the bronze but just barely.

If, going in, we had expected them to be fighting on a nearly equal basis with 5 other teams for the bronze, then I think everyone would've been thrilled with the medal. But it's just not what was expected.

Nonetheless I'm thrilled and relieved that they did manage to win the only USA medal at this Worlds, and as @VIETgrlTerifa has correctly pointed out, the medal shows once again they can be relied on for their consistent delivery in high-pressure situations. Which is going to be VERY important going into the Olympic team event next year. It's going to be SO important. If I were USFSA and had to set the team event assignments right now, I would absolutely go with the Shibs in both portions for the team event. And that alone just kind of says it all about where they stand in U.S. ice dance.

 

[princeton123]

I'm really trying to understand why the Shibs scored 5 points below their seasons best in the FD with base value thats fairly similar. They lost 5 points worth of PCS and GOE in the month since 4CC? Granted, I don't think their Worlds skates were as good as their 4CC skates, but it doesn't account for such a huge difference.

 

[gk_891]

I'm really trying to understand why the Shibs scored 5 points below their seasons best in the FD with base value thats fairly similar. They lost 5 points worth of PCS and GOE in the month since 4CC? Granted, I don't think their Worlds skates were as good as their 4CC skates, but it doesn't account for such a huge difference.

I'm also curious about this. It was mentioned earlier in this thread about the panel not being in the Shibs' favour but I'm not 100 percent sure as to what the story behind that is.

 

[DreamsofBliss]

Base Value at 4CC was 42.80 and at Worlds was 41.30. That's a point and a half. They got a level 3 at Worlds for which they got a level 4 at 4CC on the Diagonal stsq. They had an extended lift at Worlds which was a loss of a point, so now we're at 2 and a half points. So it's a two and a half point difference in GOE and PCS (PCS was about a point less)

 

[MarieM]

So, how did you all enjoy the work of Dostani ?

 

[clairecloutier]

Can someone please explain the history of Dostatni and the Shibs? I assume he marked them down in other competitions? If so, I wonder if even having him on the board at Worlds could've dampened the Shibs' spirits and caused them to skate more cautious/restrained??

 

[chapis]

Hmm, I'm completely out of loop in regards to this caller. What's the story behind it?

Regardless, nice to see the Shibs on the podium again.

Usually I don´t pay attention to the judges or technical panel. But before the competition, I read on another forum that Dostatni and Igor are very good friends and that in the past Dostatni has favored to Igor´s teams, the poster who said it, is trustworthy. Being Maia and Alex the main rivals of Chock and Bates (In addition, there are rumors that when Marina and Igor parted away, Igor was not in very good terms with Maia and Alex) I assumed that Dostatni would be very strict or even unfair with them. I don´t know more about it.

 

[gk_891]

Usually I don´t pay attention to the judges or technical panel. But before the competition, I read on another forum that Dostatni and Igor are very good friends and that in the past Dostatni has favored to Igor´s teams, the poster who said it, is trustworthy. Being Maia and Alex the main rivals of Chock and Bates (In addition, there are rumors that when Marina and Igor parted away, Igor was not in very good terms with Maia and Alex) I assumed that Dostatni would be very strict or even unfair with them. I don´t know more about it.

Oh I see. Does that also maybe explain their deduction for an extended lift in their FD? I read in another thread that apparently this was the first time they received that deduction.

 

[chapis]

Oh I see. Does that also maybe explain their deduction for an extended lift in their FD? I read in another thread that apparently this was the first time they received that deduction.

Actually, they got a deduction in nationals, but after that, they changed the exit of the lift, and they had no problem at 4cc. By the way, someone know how they track the time for lifts?, it start since the lifted partner take off the skate until the skate touch the ice again? max 6 sec?

 

[Miloune]

Actually, they got a deduction in nationals, but after that, they changed the exit of the lift, and they had no problem at 4cc. By the way, someone know how they track the time for lifts?, it start since the lifted partner take off the skate until the skate touch the ice again? max 6 sec?

Isn't it 7 second now?

 

[chapis]

Isn't it 7 second now?

Yes, you are right, thanks. http://imgur.com/enHZwKN

eta. In that case, I think the deduction was unfair.

 

[VGThuy]

So, how did you all enjoy the work of Dostani ?

He tried his hardest but the Shibs survived. Shame Delobel/Schoenfelder couldn't say the same thing when he called for them.

 

[MarieM]

To be fair, last time, they were the ones who really benefitted from his shit

 

[Miloune]

To be fair, last time, they were the ones who really benefitted from his shit

Who? The Shibs or Delobel/Shoenfelder ?

 

[MarieM]

Who? The Shibs or Delobel/Shoenfelder ?

The shibs. Their first "bronze" medal was thx to dear Dostani.

 

[Miloune]

The shibs. Their first "bronze" medal was thx to dear Dostani.

Please refresh my memory... Who was the "rightful" 3rd that year? (since Péchalat/Bourzat crashed)
(I'm not being ironic here, I don't remember)

 

[VGThuy]

Please refresh my memory... Who was the "rightful" 3rd that year? (since Péchalat/Bourzat crashed)

Some people say Weaver/Poje, some say Bobrova/Soloviev, some say Ilinykh/Katsalapov, some say Pechelat/Boirzat anyway and some say all of the above.

 

[MarieM]

Any of the above (IMO Weaver & Poje).

 

[VGThuy]

IMO none of the above and I rewatched the SDs and FDs multiple times. There was a real cleanliness and polish to the Shibs elements compared to all of those teams, and it's not like anyone else had better material honestly.

 

[Miloune]

IMO none of the above and I rewatched the SDs and FDs multiple times. There was a real cleanliness and polish to the Shibs elements compared to all of those teams, and it's not like anyone else had better material honestly.

All this is very intriguing, I think I'll rewatch and come back to give you both my (very important and awaited with bated breath) opinion.

 

[MarieM]

W&Poje HAD better material

 

[VGThuy]

It's not an absolute statement, but a matter of opinion. It does seem the bitterness of the 2011 Worlds results still sting for many though.

 

[Miloune]

Don't fight dears, I will be the tie breaker

 

[VGThuy]

So I finally watched the medal ceremony, and man does Alex look pissed off. I hope this translates to an amazing upcoming season for them.

 

[gk_891]

So I finally watched the medal ceremony, and man does Alex look pissed off. I hope this translates to an amazing upcoming season for them.

It could be what they need to push even harder for next season which is important since it will be the Olympic season.

 

[chapis]

So I finally watched the medal ceremony, and man does Alex look pissed off. I hope this translates to an amazing upcoming season for them.

And every time that Alex is pissed off and he can´t help show it, Maia always try compensate it being all smiley, cool and posting pictures . I love both sides because Alex show us that this situation is not indifferent to them and Maia show us that they can handle it and keep a cold mind. They complement each other well.