Shibutanis thread 3: Evolution

MarieM said:
W&Poje HAD better material :)
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Okay so I watched both and I must admit to prefer Weaver/Poje on this one. Which makes me think : when are they gonna go back to something like this! This Moulin Rouge FD had some fire :smokin::EVILLE:.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
So I finally watched the medal ceremony, and man does Alex look pissed off. I hope this translates to an amazing upcoming season for them.
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Alex's expression had nothing over my outrage. My head nearly exploded over the amount of expletives I was screaming and I threw a pillow at the TV screen. Both of my peacefully sleeping cats jumped up and ran for cover (I have since apologized profusely:)). I can even feel my blood pressure rising now. I hate the politicking in this sport and it showed its ugly side at this year's championship. Very ugly.
 
chapis said:
And every time that Alex is pissed off and he can´t help show it, Maia always try compensate it being all smiley, cool and posting pictures :rofl:. I love both sides because Alex show us that this situation is not indifferent to them and Maia show us that they can handle it and keep a cold mind. They complement each other well.
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There seems to be times this season where it looked like Alex had to reassure Maia. In the Cup of China FD performance, after their ending pose, you saw Alex look at Maia with an expression that said something like "see, there's nothing to worry about, we got it." And then at Worlds, Maia tweeted after the SD saying that she's happy that Alex always has her back. It looks like she was very angry and unsure what to think about their scores here too, but that Alex was reassuring her and telling her not to worry because they're in it together.
 
suki said:
Alex's expression had nothing over my outrage. My head nearly exploded over the amount of expletives I was screaming and I threw a pillow at the TV screen. Both of my peacefully sleeping cats jumped up and ran for cover (I have since apologized profusely:)). I can even feel my blood pressure rising now. I hate the politicking in this sport and it showed its ugly side at this year's championship. Very ugly.
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Tell me about it!. My gastritis was killing me :fragile: :rofl:
 
So . . .

About next season's programs. I really love this exhibition by Karen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUHQBVavigk

If the Shibs could do something with this "feel" at the Olympics, I think it could be really special. The GPF is in Japan. The Olympics are in Korea. The crowd is bound to be largely Korean, Japanese, & Chinese. None of the other top dance teams can do an ethnic Japanese or Asian program and make it feel as honest & personal as Maia & Alex. And it has never been done by a top dance team.
 
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Dobre said:
So . . .

About next season's programs. I really love this exhibition by Karen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUHQBVavigk

If the Shibs could do something with this "feel" at the Olympics, I think it could be really special. The GPF is in Japan. The Olympics is in Korea. The crowd is bound to be largely Korean, Japanese, & Chinese. None of the other top dance teams can do an ethnic Japanese or Asian program and make it feel as honest & personal as Maia & Alex. And it has never been done by a top dance team.
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Yes! I agree. I've always loved the Reeds' 2010 OD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5AOyDHaQzg
Of course they weren't scored highly, but that was stunning work. I look back at the 2010 OD's with such fond memories.
 
I love this idea!! That's the kind of program that could become iconic for them. Plus you know they'd kill it.
 
Dobre said:
So . . .

About next season's programs. I really love this exhibition by Karen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUHQBVavigk

If the Shibs could do something with this "feel" at the Olympics, I think it could be really special. The GPF is in Japan. The Olympics is in Korea. The crowd is bound to be largely Korean, Japanese, & Chinese. None of the other top dance teams can do an ethnic Japanese or Asian program and make it feel as honest & personal as Maia & Alex. And it has never been done by a top dance team.
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Hmm, being that the Olympics are in Korea (a country that has a long history of hostilities with Japan), a Japanese-themed dance may or may not be the greatest idea. But I suppose if they choose to go down this route, they could make it work well for the reasons you mentioned.
 
I watched the last episode of Big Little Lies and there an extremely powerful scene set to Agnes Obel's "September Song" that I thought would be perfect for the Shibs. Maybe not as a competitive program as people thought Arvo Part's gorgeous and celebrated "Spiegel im Spiegel" was "boring" or "monotonous", but it's such a gorgeous piece and is musically interesting enough for folks for the Shibs to do something special with it, even for a show program or a vlog or video or something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2esEEmUzSQ

When I heard they used a bit of Max Richter's "Departure Suite" from The Leftovers, I couldn't help but wish they used more of this gorgeous and layered piece in their mix with "Truman Sleeps":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHrKoE1cdEo

I could love to see them do a program combining the above two pieces, but that would probably be unwise as it seems most think them doing something like "Fix You" would be better for them and better received considering how Worlds went for them with "Mirror in Mirror"/"Truman Sleeps". I just think they're glorious with classical piano pieces, they just need to keep working on the programs, transition moves, and executing it bigger to really make it sing.

If they try to go for another "Fix You", I'm just afraid they're doing it because they think they received a message that they need to go artistically backwards to get success from the judges and, IMO, that's what hurt Virtue/Moir when they and Marina decided to go with "Seasons". They need to be brave and do what feels right for them even if it's an artistic risk. They'll enjoy their experience more and be a lot more sure of themselves that way rather than chase past success, IMO.
 
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Aargh, no!!! They need a change! I'm still for Ravel's La Valse or Tzigane. They would be really classical though not warhorses, and way out of the PC/VM wheelhouse, both of which sound good in an Olympic year. They both have lots of dramatic potential too. I know I'm repeating myself but in case Maia and Alex are reading and forgot my previous post.... :P
 
Like I said, I know most people disagree with me, but I think it's a shame because I don't think they're even close to tapping their potential with this direction and I think they could really hit it out of the park. To me they are the ice dance team that is the most distinctive because they are so cerebral and most "themselves" and to me are perfect examples of "still waters running deep" and I think they can capture that mood in ways that not many can because they interpret music differently from everyone else. Anyway, I probably will never see them try again due to the out-of-step Worlds judging.

It'll be interesting to see what they and Marina (and others) have in store for us.
 
I just don't understand why you keep talking about Fix You as something they have to transcend, or something immature. It was their huge breakthrough. Now I agree that they can't keep doing the same thing, but to say "another emotional song with personal meaning for them" is hardly consigning them to a hamster wheel. There is a whole world of emotional songs and there is more than one theme they can relate to.

Plus, going with minimalist piano music that echoes this year's is hardly an artistic risk. It is a judging risk-- although, as I noted above, we are far from sure what caused the judges to dump them -- it may not be the program at all -- but that's another matter. I just want them to have another WOW program and IMO minimalism is not the way to do that, especially two years in a row.

Do people think they will keep going after 2018?
 
Because I do think they've grown past that. Just my opinion and reflective of my taste. I also would not characterize Agnes Obel as minimalist.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
Because I do think they've grown past that. Just my opinion and reflective of my taste. I also would not characterize Agnes Obel as minimalist.
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Re Agnes Obel (my first time hearing her or of her) I guess it depends what you compare her to. Obviously you and I inhabit different musical worlds. Compared to Ravel, Handel, Verdi or even Willie Nelson, she's a minimalist. I am afraid to ask compared to what is she NOT a minimalist (if this piece is typical of her work)? (I can't do emoticons on my computers, otherwise I'd put the galloping horse.)
 
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Honestly, I have no idea what they should to skate. I LOVE ¨Evolution¨, so I would don't mind if they choose the same route, I love ¨Departure Suite¨ from The Leftovers too, Time (Inception) would be great too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxabLA7UQ9k. I would like something like their exhibition program ¨Do you remember¨, but If I just think about possible success at the olympic season, I agree they should come back to ¨fix you¨ style. And I don´t think they will choose their programs based on how they were treated at this Worlds , because Alex said in the press conference that they already have the idea about the FD.

I would love The Fifth Element - The Diva Dance Opera for an exhibition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i86Ugyg3nfk

About if they plan continue after 2018, I think it will depends of their results the next season. If they return to status they had four years ago, it is very probably they decide retire, especially Alex, and I doubt that Maia would want continue with another partner.
 
I really like the idea of Asian music for the Shibs, although I realize there are political implications that could make that complicated. So I suppose it probably might not happen. Still I think it might be really great to watch. I think Asian music is underused in ice dance and skating generally.

Failing that, I would just like to see something with a little more outward emotional quality than this year's programs. The Shibs ARE the most cerebral of the top teams skating right now, this is both a strength and weakness. But they have done minimalist already this year, it's time for something different. I just do not think that minimalist and cerebral round 2 is going to lead to an Olympic medal. There seems to be an implication that "Fix You" was facile or immature, but the fact is, it worked and is by far their most successful senior free dance.
 
Fix you worked for them, because it was made by a REAL choreographer. They need to bring Peter back and dump Marina's choreo.
 
I've suggested it before, but something similar to Yuna's "Homage to Korea" would obviously play well to the crowd (I'll be there to cheer them on live!). It's based on Arirang, the unofficial national anthem of Korea. There's a wonderful instrumental piece called Variations on a Korean Folk Song by John Barnes Chance with 5-6 variations to choose from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZyn2FDvvy0 :00, 1:39, 2:34, 4:20, 5:10, 7:00 are the starts of the main sections.

I know there's a lot of hand wringing about getting dumped by the judges (mostly in PCS), but I also wonder if the rest of the mid-upper tier caught up to narrow the gap. As has been discussed, lost levels did them no favor in the SD - they've got to come out guns blazing and hit SD levels for sure next season. The loss of a L4 Step Sequence from 4CC also hurt them. I still think Evolution was a great vehicle in terms of showcasing their skills and being 'different' from Fix You. I think they set themselves up for a great Olympic season next year, just not as much they (we, their fans) had hoped.

I'm still curious as to the Grand Prix order in the fall. I think it's GP 1, Skate Canada, GP 3,4,5, Skate America - with Cup of China and NHK between Canada and America. Elsewhere someone mentioned Rostelecom as the first. I hope the Shibs do a senior B this year (possibly US Classic - Davis and White did it in 2013 prior to the Olympics) so they can check levels - it's likely they'll get sent to Rostelecom, if V/M and P/C pick NHK and Cup of China first.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
So I finally watched the medal ceremony, and man does Alex look pissed off. I hope this translates to an amazing upcoming season for them.
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So why would Alex be pissed off? They won bronze which was probably the best they could do even before the competition started due to P/C and V/M dominating this season. And if Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donahue hadn't messed up their twizzles, the Shibs wouldn't have medaled at all. Just wondering.
 
mattiecat13 said:
So why would Alex be pissed off? They won bronze which was probably the best they could do even before the competition started due to P/C and V/M dominating this season. And if Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donahue hadn't messed up their twizzles, the Shibs wouldn't have medaled at all. Just wondering.
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Probably over how they were scored rather than their actual placements.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
If they try to go for another "Fix You", I'm just afraid they're doing it because they think they received a message that they need to go artistically backwards to get success from the judges and, IMO, that's what hurt Virtue/Moir when they and Marina decided to go with "Seasons". They need to be brave and do what feels right for them even if it's an artistic risk. They'll enjoy their experience more and be a lot more sure of themselves that way rather than chase past success, IMO.
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Was that the message they received? Because I never thought the artistic vision was the problem with the FD, but I haven't closely followed what the judges said about it.

ETA: I also think that a program like "Fix You" isn't a good idea, either.
 
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mattiecat13 said:
So why would Alex be pissed off? They won bronze which was probably the best they could do even before the competition started due to P/C and V/M dominating this season. And if Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donahue hadn't messed up their twizzles, the Shibs wouldn't have medaled at all. Just wondering.
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I think you know the answer to that question. It's there in your post.
 
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clairecloutier said:
I just realized earlier that, of the teams below V/M and P/C, the Shibs now have the most World medals: 3. Such an impressive accomplishment! We shouldn't lose sight of that fact, even if their actual scores this year weren't what was hoped for.
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Actually it's the same number of world medals that P/C have as well, it's just that they have two gold. Hopefully they don't follow the trajectory of WP and CB the last two Worlds bronze medalists. (who won silver the year before their bronze)
 
I"m not going to suggest any specific musical pieces for Maia and Alex. However, I think skating to another mainly piano melody, as beautiful as it is, wouldn't be the best choice for a competitive program. For the Olympic year they need something stirring and that can bring out excitement and energy in the audience. As lovely as Evolution was and I did grow to appreciate it, it is a little sedate and reflective. They need music that builds and touches the audience in an obvious way, That's my opinion anyway at least until I know their music choices.
 
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