Shibutanis thread 3: Evolution

Spun Silver said:
I cant take 12 mins of raving about Nathan (understandable as it is). What did she say re the Shibs?
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FYI, it's not twelve minutes of Marina talking about Nathan. The press conference is at the end of the video and there are short interview with Hawayek and Baker and Hubbell and Donohue, too.
 
Marina speak very high and excited about D/W, V/M, Nikita and Vic., Patrick and now Nathan. She does not speak like that about Maia and Alex. God, I can´t stand her :rofl:, I really try, but she is sooo annoying for me. But she is with them at nationals, not with Patrick, their skating is improving, Victoria and Nikita got dumped from Canton. I want to think their relationship with her is very singular.
 
DDNatalia said:
Close to 2 million views of Maia and Alex's short dance on the NBC Olympic Facebook page. Exciting to see them continuing to succeed in drawing eyes to the sport.
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Wow :eek:, that is so cool. I love reading the comments, seems the mashup was a success :40beers:. I hope with this NBC realize that ice dance can be marketable too. I am sick of its obsession with ladies.
 
It's quite amazing that the Shibs have the most watched videos from Nationals on the NBC Olympics Facebook page with over 2.5+ million views combined. What is really heartening to see is that the comments are overwhelmingly positive and for many it's their first time seeing skating or at least their first time watching a skating performance for quite some time. Many were unsure about the Sinatra/Jay-Z mash-up but it seems regular viewers loved it, and many people have been asking what their music is for the FD because they thought it was hauntingly beautiful. It's nice to get a non-hardcore fan perspective.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
It's quite amazing that the Shibs have the most watched videos from Nationals on the NBC Olympics Facebook page with over 2.5+ million views combined. What is really heartening to see is that the comments are overwhelmingly positive and for many it's their first time seeing skating or at least their first time watching a skating performance for quite some time. Many were unsure about the Sinatra/Jay-Z mash-up but it seems regular viewers loved it, and many people have been asking what their music is for the FD because they thought it was hauntingly beautiful. It's nice to get a non-hardcore fan perspective.
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The views are up further now. There are two vids of the SD, one with 2.4 and one with 2.9M views. Does that really mean a total of 5.3M???

But the FD views lag far behind at under 500K. They really do have a problem there. On my latest view with @clairecloutier's comment in mind, I felt like the problem with the second part is that it doesnt really go anywhere after the great twizzle sequence. It's not the music, IMO, but the choreography. I'm not getting the Evolution idea at all.
 
Oh yeah, there are two videos, one with 2.4 million and one with 2.9 million videos.

As for the FD, I bet you everything that Alex, Maia, Marina, Massimo, etc. will be working very hard on it to make it peak by Worlds, even if it means restructuring or changing the choreography around. They always seem like aware people and I know they're hearing all the critiques.

Also, what's with the latest TSL video? Dave Lease seems to have a real problem with them now. It's not the critiques on their programs which I think is very fair even if I disagree, but there's a real venom he has now when he talks about them. Jonathan Beyer actually said they were frauds when they are interviewed, which I thought was a pretty strong word.
 
Ok, I have to say it. Please don´t judge me :yikes:, I know people are not so convinced with Shibs FD, but for me this is the best...., ok, just my favorite program in the history of figure skating . You know, all the season I have thought it is a great program but this weekend something clicked on my head and OMG, this is sooo good. Everything, each little detail is perfect and even has potential to be even more impressive.
I get that people are looking for different things, some people are looking for speed, others a bombastic program, or a sexy or sensual program, someone else want technique. In my case this program and this skating is what I looking for watching figure skating. And I am so glad they were so involved on its creation because basically they are giving all in this program. I just hate to love a song and later to learn that the singer hated it and only sang it because someone imposed it.

And about the SD
It is surprising for me that they have the most views and shared video in NBC facebook by several situations:

1. Singles is more popular than dance.
2. They did not receive prior promotion.
3. They have more views than Nathan's video, and Nathan was very promoted. Even the Shibs were promoting him :lol:.
4. The fact that not only did they promote Nathan, but that Nathan actually had a historical program. Then I am very happy that Alex and Maia´s efforts are so appreciated and I hope that in the worlds they receive a little more of promotion.
 
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VIETgrlTerifa said:
Oh yeah, there are two videos, one with 2.4 million and one with 2.9 million videos.

As for the FD, I bet you everything that Alex, Maia, Marina, Massimo, etc. will be working very hard on it to make it peak by Worlds, even if it means restructuring or changing the choreography around. They always seem like aware people and I know they're hearing all the critiques.

Also, what's with the latest TSL video? Dave Lease seems to have a real problem with them now. It's not the critiques on their programs which I think is very fair even if I disagree, but there's a real venom he has now when he talks about them. Jonathan Beyer actually said they were frauds when they are interviewed, which I thought was a pretty strong word.
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Even Jonathan practically said Shibs should not make the world team :rofl:. He lost his little credibility. I don´t know what is their problem but if it is a personal thing, they are pathetic.
 
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VIETgrlTerifa said:
Also, what's with the latest TSL video? Dave Lease seems to have a real problem with them now. It's not the critiques on their programs which I think is very fair even if I disagree, but there's a real venom he has now when he talks about them. Jonathan Beyer actually said they were frauds when they are interviewed, which I thought was a pretty strong word.
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chapis said:
Even Jonathan practically said Shibs should not make the world team :rofl:. He lost his little credibility. I don´t know what is their problem but if it is a personal thing, they are pathetic.
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I just tune out petty mean gossip like this and the link that someone posted in a Gracie Gold thread, also the stuff posted by someone claiming to share ice with Polina. It says more about the gossiper than the object of the gossip IMO. You never know what small-minded reason they may have for their attack.

There is something mean I could say about one famous skater but I have always chosen not to because there were reasons for that skater's attitude at that moment. Always give the skater the benefit of the doubt, that's my motto. And the Shibs have earned that many times over. They all have in my book.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
Also, what's with the latest TSL video? Dave Lease seems to have a real problem with them now. It's not the critiques on their programs which I think is very fair even if I disagree, but there's a real venom he has now when he talks about them. Jonathan Beyer actually said they were frauds when they are interviewed, which I thought was a pretty strong word.
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Dave is petty and often just goes whichever way the wind blows. His opinions change all the time. Apparently he loves VM right now but I can remember vividly him gossiping/confirming nasty rumors surrounding them back in the day.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of Jonathan because he seems to have his favourites (French, Hubbell/Donohue) because ~EMOTIONS~ and then the rest are just good skaters who lack artistry (essentially) which is bullshit but he keeps pedalling it in every recap he does.

That being said, it's awesome that the Shibs are getting so much support on Facebook. I thought they skated both programs here better than ever. That FD keeps growing on me, and while I actually preferred the original music cut (I really loved how minimalist it was), I can appreciate the change and understand what they were going for. Excited for 4cc!
 
I think some fans here are being too sensitive. I'm a fan but I don't disagree with what Dave and Jonathan said. They are too stiff sometimes. They do need to let go. Until they do, they'll never beat Papadakis/Cizeron or Virtue/Moir.
 
princeton123 said:
I think some fans here are being too sensitive. I'm a fan but I don't disagree with what Dave and Jonathan said. They are too stiff sometimes. They do need to let go. Until they do, they'll never beat Papadakis/Cizeron or Virtue/Moir.
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Tanith says the same and I have zero problem with her. The problem is the way of say it and the context. And they did not just said that, they said that Maia and Alex were frauds, Jonathan said he consider they barely should make the world team, I mean, seriously?. They basically think that they did not deserve this title. He complains and mocks about their interviews, because they are so controlled and boring for him, what does it have to do with their skating? and what he was expecting? to Maia and Alex saying the first stupid thing that comes to their minds?, like others skaters do , then everyone would be judging them.
 
princeton123 said:
I think some fans here are being too sensitive. I'm a fan but I don't disagree with what Dave and Jonathan said. They are too stiff sometimes. They do need to let go.
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His characterizations of them lately have been going in an extreme to fit a narrative he wants people to buy into. I find the whole thing to be transparent. It's not criticism I'm adverse to. Lord knows we have critiqued the Shibs. In fact some of us did just that right after their FD. But the manner and glee Dave and Jonathan went into suggests there's more going on than Dave and Jonathan calling what they saw. It's like your issues with Kurt Browning when he comments on Virtue/Moir. It's not like what he said was wildly different from Jonathan Beyer's comments on the Shibs as there was a lack of real substantive discussion happening on his part.

Of course, you can believe what you want, especially if the critiques against Dave and Jonathan from the latest TSL segment are deemed oversensitive for your own sensibilities. I say, if TSL can dish it out with the best of them, certainly they can take it from the few viewers that they have from the fanbase. This is probably the best publicity Jonathan Beyer has had in a while.

Until they do, they'll never beat Papadakis/Cizeron or Virtue/Moir.
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You're probably right about that even the Shibs have beaten P/C before at least three times out of five in the SD in the last two seasons and a half. Many think they just aren't good enough as of right now. I think that's a totally fair statement to make. I'm sure some who think that would be delighted if they never do though and it seeps into their opinion about the Shibs and how the fans react to certain negative portrayals of them.
 
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So as of right now, between the two videos, the Shibs have nearly 7 million views. (One has 3.4 million with nearly 33 thousand shares and the other has 3.5 million views with over 35 thousand shares). Their SD is by far the most watched video on the NBC Olympics page from Nationals and probably the most watched video that the site has posted in a long time. They gambled with the hip hop and it looks like they've succeeded thus far.
 
This season isnt really all that different from last one. They have one totally kickass program and one that is lovely but doesnt grab people in the gut.
 
It's funny because their hip hop didn't start that way and the judges were giving much bigger scores to their FD during the GP series. Their FD received consistent high PCS with multiple 10.0s.
 
Just Nationals and C/B performing their FD the best they had all season. The Shibs could have performed their FD with more verve. It looked better at COC and GPF to me, but again, they could always improve on it. It needs a bigger statement going into 4CC and Worlds, IMO. Maybe what's missing is the "danger" aspect in that they need to make their lifts and other moves look like they are pushing the edge, which you know isn't the Shibs' strong suit.
 
That would probably be the most efficient way to up the wow factor and it would be an important achievement for them to do it with lifts.

I was also wondering -- do you think the difficulty of their twizzle set could be increased a little? it's wonderfully timed and executed but it looks a little safe. There are a lot of teams doing great twizzles these days.
 
I think the transitions in their twizzles sequence in the SD are great. They do more turns and hold the positions and they exit out of the fourth set with even more turns and upper body choreography. As for the FD, I know what you mean but I think they should keep the Twizzles in the FD as they are as they are really covering a lot of ice there and have the unison and matching bodies that many teams don't have. They also look in total control doing them while other teams look like they're trying to get them over with. Doing the extra twizzle set should not be undervalued in terms of difficulty. However, their choreographic twizzles can be a lot better, IMO. For next season, maybe they can add more difficult transitions into and/or exiting the Twizzles to make them pop. I don't think they should do transitions inside the sequence because to me, it's that unison, body matching, and ice coverage in just doing twizzles (as opposed to hopping or sliding in-between twizzles to cover more ice) is pretty unreal.
 
I was thinking more of a new or difficult position. But it's true, that extra fourth twizzle set they do is such a showoff factor. I guess I'm spoiled now and expect it.

I'm not sure I see the lack of control in several other teams. You would know better and I will keep an eye out for that but my impression was that other teams have improved their twizzles a lot.
 
Spun Silver said:
I was thinking more of a new or difficult position. But it's true, that extra fourth twizzle set they do is such a showoff factor. I guess I'm spoiled now and expect it.

I'm not sure I see the lack of control in several other teams. You would know better and I will keep an eye out for that but my impression was that other teams have improved their twizzles a lot.
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I think they are getting the best scores at twizzles, they should to work in other things. I think that last lift looks kind of awkward https://youtu.be/zI5_gtLyHWg?t=375, and It is crucial because I think this is the climax of the music.
 
Good point. Coming so close to the end it would be nice to have a better lift for a socko finale. Especially if it led right into a more dramatic closing pose.
 
I'm sure they're probably already working their butts off to improve the FD. It's only a few weeks until 4CCs and they really can't afford to lose the FD again to C/B if they want to medal at Worlds.

So I haven't seen the Marina comments about the Shibs on TSL-- should I bother searching for it?
 
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