Shibutanis thread 3: Evolution

Spun Silver said:
Just wondering: do people see evolution in the program? I just see it as abstract.
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Is a different program for them, so yes, I see evolution. And I think they called it evolution not only because of the program but everything they are living, last year fd, this year sd, they are definitely evolutioning.
 
Yeah, it's more of a Meta theme. They need to make it more literal so people can understand what they're going for.
 
If they want to do a sprockets angst program, they need more angst. Having more power and speed would help them get there. I don't think their skating quite supports the theme of what they are trying to do, at least not enough to be world champions with this FD.
 
I feel like the opening music is perfect for telling a story. It would not take much to establish what is going on in the program, what is the relationship between the two of them. The music does say angst or something like it, but the skating doesnt really (unless the choreographic lift I mentioned above). Even if they started out facing each other and searching each other's faces, you would have a sort of questing or mirror or relationship theme to hint at what "Evolution" means. Because all I'm getting is ballroom lessons. :P

it would be nice if the ending pose answered the opening pose somehow too.
 
Watching their Ice Network desk interview with Tanith and Charlie, I feel better. Maia and Alex seem at ease but also aware that they have work to do. They are ready to move on to 4CC and Worlds and do the work in-between.
 
Last night was actually my favorite performance yet of the Shibs' FD. They had me captivated until about the last minute or 45 seconds. Then something broke the spell, I'm not sure what. I don't know the program quite as well as the rest of you. I am not sure how possible it is to make the piece more crowd-pleasing--it would change the character of it, which is meditative and mesmerizing, but not dramatically exciting.

It's a disaster though to lose to Chock/Bates by 2 points in the FD. :eek: Just when I thought the Shibs had really established themselves as U.S. #1. Maybe it's a blip?? I hope. Last night, I actually liked C/B's FD the least that I had all season, but they got their best scores. :lol: 4CCs is going to be interesting.
 
Spun Silver said:
LOL! I just googled Sprockets. Not sure why angst requires power and speed, but they always help.
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My thinking is if they can increase the speed and power - and they looked slow - it would increase the risk factor and have the effect of making the choreography edgier.

Toward the end of the program, they have this hand hold sweepy alternating move. It actually reminded me of something evgeny and pasha might do. But it didn't have the same impact because it was delicate and small.

They are skating pretty and it isn't making the most of the music IMO.
 
clairecloutier said:
Last night was actually my favorite performance yet of the Shibs' FD. They had me captivated until about the last minute or 45 seconds. Then something broke the spell, I'm not sure what. I don't know the program quite as well as the rest of you. I am not sure how possible it is to make the piece more crowd-pleasing--it would change the character of it, which is meditative and mesmerizing, but not dramatically exciting.

It's a disaster though to lose to Chock/Bates by 2 points in the FD. :eek: Just when I thought the Shibs had really established themselves as U.S. #1. Maybe it's a blip?? I hope. Last night, I actually liked C/B's FD the least that I had all season, but they got their best scores. :lol: 4CCs is going to be interesting.
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I think it was the change of music and mood https://youtu.be/zHdD1TWZoKc?t=191. The first part (Spiegel im Spiegel) is very repetitive and it can be kind of hypnotic, but my favorite part is the last one (Truman show soundtrack).
 
Yeah, I wonder what the raised eyebrow meant. Her answer verbally says one thing (yeah) but those eyebrows seem to indicate something a bit different OR perhaps she didn't really want to elaborate anything more on the Shibs as she was too busy focused on talking about Chen. Pity for the Shibs.
 
It looks like Maia and Alex's SD was a big hit on social media. From a screenshot of last night, NBC Olympics Instagram posted it and it looks like it had 1.2 million views and over 10,000 shares.

I guess it's working for people. ;)

It has has tons of likes and retweets on NBC Olympics' Twitter page. Not bad for ice dance.
 
Alex and Maia are probably NOT breathing easy. They to me lost focus a bit in the Free Dance and allowed for Madison and Evan to beat them. This free needs reckless abandon and I did not see it yesterday. I am hoping that they take the advise of either Tanith White ( she's always Belbin to me LOL) or anyone else that to be better, they actually need to let go more.

It's weird that they dont emote more because they have a lot of personality, especially Alex. I saw them a bit out of sync in terms of timing as well as really skating as one. The good news is they have room to grow. The concern i have is that they will find a way to squeeze even tighter and portray that " we do everything correctly dammit" feeling.

PS: anyone else wonder if Camerlengo and Krylova would work for them?Pasquale does beautifully themed but not over choreographed material that they love and Maia and Alex already have an insanely good skill base. Just a thought.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
She hardly spoke about the Shibs since she was doing her Marina thing in being Nathan Chen's PR/politicking queen. However, the one Shib related thing was very interesting. I wonder what she was really communicating to Dave with that one-word answer, look, and raised eyebrow.
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I cant take 12 mins of raving about Nathan (understandable as it is). What did she say re the Shibs?
 
Spun Silver said:
I cant take 12 mins of raving about Nathan (understandable as it is). What did she say re the Shibs?
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Dave tried to ask a Shibs-related question, which was appropriate given that was the Free Dance mixed zone, by asking if Maia and Alex had it within them to skate with more abandon and freedom like Meryl/Charlie and Tessa/Scott, her former students, and said about how they lacked that and speed and if they were working on it. Marina suddenly got very serious and stern looking...looked at him and said "yes" then raised her eyebrow and someone quickly asked about Nathan again and she perked up. It was sort of scary. I don't think she appreciated that question. I'd like to think it was a Mama being protective moment but who knows.
 
Spun Silver said:
I cant take 12 mins of raving about Nathan (understandable as it is). What did she say re the Shibs?
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If you go to the link and forward to about the 6 minute mark, you'll hear Dave ask his question and hear Marina's "answer" and then the look she gives after answering it. What made me question her response was how her eyebrows didn't just go up, they also went to her left. I'm not sure how to interpret the meaning of such a look because it likely means something entirely different for people. If you go take a look, I'd be interested in how you interpret her one word response, her look and how quickly she turned to the other person asking questions so that she could get back to talking about Nate.
 
Hmm. Thanks. Sounds like she is sticking with the "ready for an OGM now" narrative to me. Or Dave hit a nerve because she knows that's their weakness.
 
Her gushing about Nathan when she should be talking about the Shibs (yes, I know she can't help it if reporters were asking her about Nathan rather than the Shibs in the FD mixed zone)...or the fact she was talking to reporters at all when H/D was skating and C/B were still to perform rather than be with Maia/Alex, reminds me of the time when it was all V/M and D/W for her and then when they were no longer competing with her, then when people finally thought it was Maia/Alex's turn to get Marina's public displays of affection, it became all about the beautiful blue-eyed Nikita/Vika who were just so perfectly matched they were.

Of course, Alex/Maia totally trust her and believe she has always supported them and believed in their abilities (their quotes) so maybe they like her less public ways of supporting them.
 
For me it was like she was not agree with his comment, kind of ¨if you think so, good for you, I don´t care, I think they are skating enough fast and with freedom¨. But who knows?, honestly I've always thought that Marina does not believe in them, and this is more obvious when you see to Massimo so excited about their results compared to her.
 
I honestly thought she felt she had future OGM contenders in Nikita/Viktoria and thought she hit the jackpot because she seriously needed another success to validate her post-D/W and post-Igor split. It seems like she really was at a loss as to what to do for Maia/Alex until Maia/Alex took matters into their own hands and then she jumped on the band wagon once the judges started to turn around on the Shibs and start giving them great scores. I will give Zoueva credit for bringing in Massimo who was exactly who the Shibs and Canton needed to help with levels and fill in the Igor void. Of course, this is just third-party observations. Who knows how Marina treats the Shibs and what she really thinks about them in private and maybe the higher scores are due to her speaking to people who really matter because she truly supports them and thinks they actually can be on top of the worlds podium.
 
Firedancer said:
I always felt like Marina didn't know what to do with the Shibs. And things got better once Massimo came.
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And Peter Tchernyshev who at least guided them in the right direction as to what they should be doing (first with that exhibition and then their FD later on). With that, Marina was able to polish and perfect a program rather than try to come up with something herself.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
And Peter Tchernyshev who at least guided them in the right direction as to what they should be doing (first with that exhibition and then their FD later on). With that, Marina was able to polish and perfect a program rather than try to come up with something herself.
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Yes definitely.
 
professordeb said:
If you go to the link and forward to about the 6 minute mark, you'll hear Dave ask his question and hear Marina's "answer" and then the look she gives after answering it. What made me question her response was how her eyebrows didn't just go up, they also went to her left. I'm not sure how to interpret the meaning of such a look because it likely means something entirely different for people. If you go take a look, I'd be interested in how you interpret her one word response, her look and how quickly she turned to the other person asking questions so that she could get back to talking about Nate.
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OK, I watched it. I dont really see much in it. After saying "yeah," which was noncommittal (more like "I know what you mean" than "Of course they can"), there was a little shrug that to me says "Maybe." These are issues that she would be more intimately aware of than anyone in the world and I would assume she has worked on them with the Shibs. My gut level take is that she doesnt have a ton of confidence about their improving much in the areas of speed and abandon (or apparent abandon... maybe it is just something they need to learn to perform). But it is probably best not to read too much into a shrug.

OT, I liked her comment just before the eyebrow-shrug moment, re how she works with Nathan: "we make him love what he does." That echoes what Julia Lipnitskaya said about working there. It reinforces the idea that it would be a good place for Gracie.
 
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