Russian figure skating news & updates in 2022

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Andrey aka Pushkin

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Was trying to quote @Andrey but it didn't work... Question, the US is currently engaged in drone warfare in multiple sovereign nations to my knowledge, should its athletes be banned now? Not just for Andrey, for all those who want a fair policy here.

My opinion all this discussion is vanity. People are dying and pressure on Putin may help push towards an end to it.
I don't want a fair policy :lol:
I don't think it's possible.
I'm still even against banning the Russians, although the reasoning behind it is valid, and the justification of it being only this particular case is acceptable; but I still think it's a can of worms, and sport should have stayed above politics - even if politics are definitely not above sport.

But since the Russians are already banned, and everybody (including myself) are kind of ok with it, I suggest we let this one slide and hope no more similar situations in our lifetimes.
It’s not impossible to define. It’s complex and there will always be disagreements, but that’s the nature of making policy.

In a situation like this where two ISU member countries are involved, the ISU has no neutral stance available. They either exclude Russia or they exclude Ukraine. I’m sure the ISU would have preferred to do nothing just like they have in the past, but “nothing” doesn’t exist in this situation. They acted because they were forced to act. If that helps define clearer policy for the future, great.

The other reason consequences are being extended to Russian athletes in this situation is because Russian athletes in many sports have no independence from the government and therefore function as direct representatives in a way that athletes from other countries do not. It’s dishonest to pretend that suspending an athlete who has no choice but to support its government’s policies wholeheartedly is the same as suspending an athlete who can openly criticize the head of state on TV during the Olympics without facing any repercussions. The relationship between athletes and the government can and should be considered as these policies are crafted.
In my circle this is called "to pull an owl over a globe". Don't ask :lol:

But the point is, you're trying to make up a policy that would justify something that can't be objectively defined. There's no such thing as an objective view where politics and different "isms" are involved. It's black or white. Either you ban everybody, and then on each given year you would basically see Iceland compete against New Zealand, and nothing else; or you ban no one. This time someone somehow decided to make an exception. Good for them, I guess. I hope this doesn't become a policy.

ISU doesn't have to exclude Russia or Ukraine, neither does it have to check whether someone is independent of the government or not. For one it's impossible to measure or define, and there's no one who can be agreed to be the absolutely objective judge of that. This time there's an unprecedented worldwide consensus, and in this kind of political atmosphere, some exceptional decisions have been made. It's impossible to define. The best I can suggest, is "athletes from a country that had more than 140(?) UN members voting as an aggressor in a war, will be banned for a period of X". This definition is absolutely useless, but next time it happens, let's see what the reaction will be.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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There are basic human needs and basic human rights. War takes away both. While sport is neither the first nor the second. I can't imagine a normal society where people who support the war would be welcomed. Just like people who support, for example, sexual violence are not welcomed. A person can be a brilliant mathematician and also a pedophile. Can his talent be an excuse? Or should we let him rape children? Or is it none of our business?
Of course, Russian skaters have the right to think, speak and do what they think is right. But why should we agree with their behavior, even when it is criminal? Sorry, but knowing about a crime and remaining silent is also a crime. While Vika Sinitsyna rejoices at the meeting with the President, Sasha Nazarova reads about how her hometown is once again heavily bombed by Vika Sinitsyna's compatriots, who were blessed by the President, whom she was so glad to see. Excuse me, how should a normal person react to figure skater Vika Sinitsyna? For example, I feel sick. Just like the sight of Larry Nassar makes me sick.
The question is not in Ukraine and not even in the war. The question is how ready we are to ignore crimes and what message we are showing the world. Will we continue to close our eyes and say that all this does not concern us or will we begin to change?
Russian skaters can't do anything. Are they trying? Why does all their courage end in quads? Why should the whole world suffer because they, as citizens of their country, do not want to change anything? in the end they are citizens of their country, and then athletes. Are they really proud to represent a country whose citizens rape children? But the president also rewarded the rapists. Will Vika Sinitsyna agree to be photographed with the rapists? And why not, the rewards are the same. And how should the world then look at the programs of Vika Sinitsyna? Can you imagine her on the same ice with Sasha Nazarova?
You really can't be wholeheartedly disagreed with, and I'm not going to either.

However. This is simply not the world we live in, and it's kind of useless to expect it becomes one. There are billions of people, thousands of organizations and hundreds of countries, and all these have their own motives. Wars are often supported and justified (sometimes they are not called "war"), and I will admit, sometimes I justify them too. US in Afghanistan after 9/11 sounds like a damn justifiable war to me.

What I can suggest, and honestly, I truly believe it's the best we can realistically do, is not to try and apply some easy rule on the world, but rather behave in a way that allows us to be ok with ourselves. Let Sinitsina drool over Putin if she wants - :grandpa::she has to live with it, not you. And if you find her presence unpleasant - even better, you can have a lovely toilet break during her performance. I think many people would follow your example, but don't expect that EVERYBODY would, or that it should somehow be solved by some magical organization, let alone ISU. Not going to happen, and probably - rightly so.

We can, should and must be responsible for our actions; and it's only fair we let others to that too.
 

airgelaal

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What I can suggest, and honestly, I truly believe it's the best we can realistically do, is not to try and apply some easy rule on the world, but rather behave in a way that allows us to be ok with ourselves. Let Sinitsina drool over Putin if she wants - :grandpa::she has to live with it, not you. And if you find her presence unpleasant - even better, you can have a lovely toilet break during her performance. I think many people would follow your example, but don't expect that EVERYBODY would, or that it should somehow be solved by some magical organization, let alone ISU. Not going to happen, and probably - rightly so.

We can, should and must be responsible for our actions; and it's only fair we let others to that too.
And what about the protocols? When Vika receives a medal, what should other medalists do? Shake her hand and smile? I repeat, what should Sasha Nazarova do with her on the same ice or in the same locker room?
Can you even imagine Ukrainian and russian fans at the same competition? I'm afraid to imagine this nightmare
 

PRlady

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And what about the protocols? When Vika receives a medal, what should other medalists do? Shake her hand and smile? I repeat, what should Sasha Nazarova do with her on the same ice or in the same locker room?
Can you even imagine Ukrainian and russian fans at the same competition? I'm afraid to imagine this nightmare
I hope that when they rejoin international competitions, whenever that is, they are met with dead silence before, during and after their programs.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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And what about the protocols? When Vika receives a medal, what should other medalists do? Shake her hand and smile? I repeat, what should Sasha Nazarova do with her on the same ice or in the same locker room?
Can you even imagine Ukrainian and russian fans at the same competition? I'm afraid to imagine this nightmare
Heh.
If Vika gets a medal, the other medalists have the choice of what they decide to do. If they go with their conscious, they will probably refuse to shake her hand and possibly get penalised for that in some way.

But wasn't that exactly the story behind this thread, where we expected the Russian skaters to do the same, only with much much much more serious reprecossions? At least the ISU would not get them in jail.

And the relations between the fans are not the issue of ISU but rather of the police. But I don't believe that's a huge issue either, after all the skating fans are not football ones.

Btw, what I fully support is the ban on Russia and Belarus hosting any events. That sounds fair and justified.
 

Nadya

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However. The war itself and the reaction to it is kind of unprecedented as well. I don't recall UN being so unified over ANYTHING. And on the end of the day, we have a very clear aggressor who doesn't even pretend to have a casus belli (for one, they change the objectives and reasons every couple of days). So from the ethical POV this is kind of justified even if no one else has ever been banned.

The claims of the total UN chorus over Ukraine belies an obvious case of myopia: people only count the countries that count to them. Don't listen to me, listen to the Guardian:


"The US, the UK, Canada, South Korea, Switzerland, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Singapore, the EU: beyond this fortified coalition, very few nations have chosen to take part in the economic warfare set against the Putin government. On the contrary, many of the world’s largest nations – including China, India, Brazil, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia and even Nato ally Turkey – have refused to join in. “We will not blindly follow the steps taken by another country,” said Indonesia’s foreign ministry representative at a recent press conference.

Latin America has been equally steadfast in its commitment to neutrality. “We do not consider that [this war] concerns us,” said the Mexican president, Andrés Manuel López Obrador. “We are not going to take any sort of economic reprisal because we want to have good relations with all governments.” Argentina may have voted to condemn Russia’s actions at the UN, but its foreign minister, Santiago Cafiero, was adamant about his country’s non-participation in the new sanctions push: “Argentina does not consider that they are a mechanism to generate peace and harmony, or generate a frank dialogue table that serves to save lives.”

The Latin American position has been echoed in Africa. “For five centuries, we have been pawns in the hands of the warring European states, bent on looting Africa of its human and natural sources,” says Pierre Sané, president of the Imagine Africa Institute and former secretary-general of Amnesty International. Sané tells me that the Ukrainian embassy in Senegal has been recruiting “volunteer” mercenaries from countries like Senegal and Ivory Coast to fight in the war. “Should this war in Ukraine escalate, we say and we say it loud: do not bring it to our shores.”

____________

So, when you say, "tout le monde", really, what you mean is all the rich white people, i.e. people who count. There are enough people who are meh about it, but in your eyes, they really aren't the ones to stand up and be counted.

I could close with a list of disasters that have been approved by the UN but left behind a trail of bodies and destruction far in excess of Ukraine's for no good reason, as seen in retrospect. But I just don't think it'd matter.
 

Nadya

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EXACTLY.

It simply doesn't make sense to compare what there is a massive impetus for (sanctioning/banning Russia over Ukraine) to things that there is not any impetus for. Even the Uighur situation didn't create an impetus for shutting down the Beijing Olympics.

The world is seldom united to act. For once many countries are acting with regard to Ukraine. Its not going to happen this way again.


Each situation is different. People tried to get enough attention for some pressure over the Beijing Olympics but there wasn't enough pressure on governments. People are engaged in trying to end the US "war on terror" from inside the US but there isn't enough concern.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine had huge implications for a number of countries and so they felt impelled to act. That's a good thing, but it doesn't happen very often.

But it isn't. It looks united because you're largely counting only rich white people. China, India, Indonesia, Brazil - all land mass giants have said meh. Latin America doesn't care. Africa doesn't care. The Middle East, let's not even go there. And you know why they don't care? Because some of them say out loud, and others only behind closed doors, "when this was happening to my people, you didn't care. And now you want me to care? No thank you."

Anyone who says "the world is united over Ukraine" is overdue for admission of bias that makes them think Europe+US=The World.
 

babayaga

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You’re deliberately misstating the argument. No one is defending Russia’s actions. People are pointing out that the global institutional response is either completely new, or completely Russia-specific. That it is new is not incorrect. That it is Russia-specific remains to be seen.
It could have been cumulative effect too. Russia indeed started multiple conflicts, helped use chemical weapons in Syria, assassinated people in Europe using chemicals and nuclear poison, and was suspected in state-sponsored doping. This extra violent and bloody war could have been the last straw.
 

mtnskater

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And you know why they don't care? Because some of them say out loud, and others only behind closed doors, "when this was happening to my people, you didn't care. And now you want me to care? No thank you."

Anyone who says "the world is united over Ukraine" is overdue for admission of bias that makes them think Europe+US=The World.

That is a very sad statement. Also morally bankrupt. I was always taught treat others as you would like to be treated. Your main argument appears to be “you didn’t care about my suffering so I won’t care about yours.” Your own racial biases are loud and clear. And this explains in part why the world is such a dysfunctional mess.
 

babayaga

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But it isn't. It looks united because you're largely counting only rich white people. China, India, Indonesia, Brazil - all land mass giants have said meh. Latin America doesn't care. Africa doesn't care. The Middle East, let's not even go there. And you know why they don't care? Because some of them say out loud, and others only behind closed doors, "when this was happening to my people, you didn't care. And now you want me to care? No thank you."

Anyone who says "the world is united over Ukraine" is overdue for admission of bias that makes them think Europe+US=The World.
Russia has been trying to wipe out Ukraine for centuries. Latest genocide attempt less than a hundred years ago, and nobody ever cared or even knew it was happening. It is true that the support we get is not from the entire world, but it is so much more than I could ever hope for.
Part of the reason being that other countries might feel it's not just Ukraine that Russia threatens. China was meh when it all started, but I don't think it appreciates the nuclear blackmail Russia is using now. And all those other countries too.
 

babayaga

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That is a very sad statement. Also morally bankrupt. I was always taught treat others as you would like to be treated. Your main argument appears to be “you didn’t care about my suffering so I won’t care about yours.” Your own racial biases are loud and clear. And this explains in part why the world is such a dysfunctional mess.
This is a very popular argument though, I read it a lot on social media. From African posters, saying Russia never did anything bad to us, why should we not support it? Which I found strange - why if you feel like you have been oppressed, why would you side with an oppressor in another conflict? It's not like Ukraine ever did anything bad to African countries either.
 

Nadya

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That is a very sad statement. Also morally bankrupt. I was always taught treat others as you would like to be treated. Your main argument appears to be “you didn’t care about my suffering so I won’t care about yours.” Your own racial biases are loud and clear. And this explains in part why the world is such a dysfunctional mess.

My main argument is that it is incorrect to say the world is united in condemning Russia because it isn't.

If you think the world is a dysfunctional mess because I have racial biases, god bless you, you clearly think I have special powers. I promise to use them for good from now on.
 

babayaga

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My main argument is that it is incorrect to say the world is united in condemning Russia because it isn't.

If you think the world is a dysfunctional mess because I have racial biases, god bless you, you clearly think I have special powers. I promise to use them for good from now on.
You put my name on another poster's quote.
 

4rkidz

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Even 20 yrs ago - way before current situation - Putin had 75% support. Now it’s even higher. One has to understand that Russia is an extraordinarily conservative society…e.g., the Patriarch Kirill (P’s personal confessor) knew darn well what he was saying last month in his infamous statement, “We are saving Russia from Gay Parades.” And I did not praise Kirill during Easter services…kept mouth shut during those specific prayers…and I was not alone. But that’s one church in DC, not Russia. A church full of Ukrainians and not-so-naive Russians and their American spouses.
seems to me the Russians just like to be told what to do and don‘t want to have independent thoughts, I guess Democracy is hard, being different is hard and life much simpler when one doesn’t question ‘why?’. A dystopian dictatorship like Grushin’s novel. Perhaps that is why some of the best literary works are Russian? An outlet for the different and unique.
 

mtnskater

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My main argument is that it is incorrect to say the world is united in condemning Russia because it isn't.

If you think the world is a dysfunctional mess because I have racial biases, god bless you, you clearly think I have special powers. I promise to use them for good from now on.
Not what I said. I think the world is a dysfunctional mess because people don’t care about others suffering if they don’t like their race, religion, country, or perceived lack of reciprocal caring which you articulated as a reason many people in the world including yourself don’t care about Ukraine’s suffering.
 

Nadya

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Not what I said. I think the world is a dysfunctional mess because people don’t care about others suffering if they don’t like their race, religion, country, or perceived lack of reciprocal caring which you articulated as a reason many people in the world including yourself don’t care about Ukraine’s suffering.

People may care in the abstract but not enough to encroach on their self-interest.

I mean what did you do about the suffering in Yemen or Libya? Inflicted with your tax dollars, if you are American? Weep your eyes out? Probably nothing.

I'm not judging. It's normal to not care about something you perceive as far away from you and not really your business. It's not for nothing that most sanctions on Russia come from Europe+U.S. Proximity matters, you know?
 

babayaga

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People may care in the abstract but not enough to encroach on their self-interest.

I mean what did you do about the suffering in Yemen or Libya? Inflicted with your tax dollars, if you are American? Weep your eyes out? Probably nothing.

I'm not judging. It's normal to not care about something you perceive as far away from you and not really your business. It's not for nothing that most sanctions on Russia come from Europe+U.S. Proximity matters, you know?
I think it's more than proximity. Putin was actually threatening NATO directly. In December they sent out a list of demands, in which they in particular demanded that NATO forces, or maybe only US forces, I don't remember, get out of eastern NATO countries such as Romania, Bulgaria, Baltic states etc.
I think at that point it was clear that this list is not a joke, but Russia's actual roadmap. Russia was planning to finish Ukraine off quickly and move on to Moldova and then further. Ukraine was given some light weapons and 96 hours to resist, and US was re-enforcing NATO's eastern border.

I mean, Russia attacked Ukraine back in 2014 and there was very little interest from anyone in that war. What happens now is different because Russia is threatening everyone with a nuclear world war. That's why in my opinion there is so much media attention to these events. It is much bigger than some local conflict.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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But it isn't. It looks united because you're largely counting only rich white people. China, India, Indonesia, Brazil - all land mass giants have said meh. Latin America doesn't care. Africa doesn't care. The Middle East, let's not even go there. And you know why they don't care? Because some of them say out loud, and others only behind closed doors, "when this was happening to my people, you didn't care. And now you want me to care? No thank you."

Anyone who says "the world is united over Ukraine" is overdue for admission of bias that makes them think Europe+US=The World.
Ok, but here I'd like to stop you please because here the valid arguments end and the Russian propaganda begins.

This is incorrect. You equate "apply sanctions" and "send arms to Ukraine" with supporting Ukraine and bunch the rest with the "don't care" or "support Russia". I fail to see how it is acceptable.

All but 5 countries with X absentees voted against Russia during the UN resolution regarding Ukraine. To quote, "UN-shmun", but this is as close to an international concensus we can technically get. And every single country that spoke about the war, including China and India, all called for the war to be ended and on this or the other way put the responsibility on Russia. Only Venezuela, Syria and Belarus showed any support, either verbally or militarily(vs. some 40 that actively help Ukraine), and the not applying the sanctions ones aren't letting Russia to break them either. Plus every international organization reported about the catastrophic effects on everybody, and/or expelled Russia to some degree.

So no, what you say here is facts twisting. The world IS united over Ukraine in a way I don't recall ever seeing before, at least not on this scale.
 

Andrey aka Pushkin

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I think it's more than proximity. Putin was actually threatening NATO directly. In December they sent out a list of demands, in which they in particular demanded that NATO forces, or maybe only US forces, I don't remember, get out of eastern NATO countries such as Romania, Bulgaria, Baltic states etc.
I don't think it's just the proximity either, but I think it goes beyond Baltic countries feeling threatened. This is not the first conflict in Europe either, and ME is closer to the likes of Greece than UK.

I think it's more because Russia is not just attacking its neighbour but threatens the whole unwritten rules system that kept the world (or at least Europe) unprecedentedly peaceful for the last decades. Not just what it did but also how, stroke a chord because of historic parallels and a very obvious possibility of WWIII that would ruin literally everything humanity built in the past century. No other conflict was as threatening globally, nor so unavailingly imperialistic. Heck, they didn't even bother to pretend to have a casus Belli. It was just "we are militarily strong, we are superior culturally, we deny the right of self-identification of the neighboring nation, and therefore we will conquer a sovereign state". No other country has done it, not US in Iraq, not any of the ME conflicts, not the wars in Africa, not even Russia itself in Crimea, Georgia or Syria. This is a totally different cup of noodles. And guess what, no one wants the rule of empires and 20th century back, Africa and LATAM included.
 
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zoe111

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I don't think it's just the proximity either, but I think it goes beyond Baltic countries feeling threatened. This is not the first conflict in Europe either, and ME is closer to the likes of Greece than UK.

I think it's more because Russia is not just attacking its neighbour but threatens the whole unwritten rules system that kept the world (or at least Europe) unprecedentedly peaceful for the last decades. Not just what it did but also how, stroke a chord because of historic parallels and a very obvious possibility of WWIII that would ruin literally everything humanity built in the past century. No other conflict was as threatening globally, nor so unavailingly imperialistic. Heck, they didn't even bother to pretend to have a casus Belli. It was just "we are militarily strong, we are superior culturally, we deny the right of self-identification of the neighboring nation, and therefore we will conquer a sovereign state". No other country has done it, not US in Iraq, not any of the ME conflicts, not the wars in Africa, not even Russia itself in Crimea, Georgia or Syria. This is a totally different cup of noodles. And guess what, no one wants the rule of empires and 20th century back, Africa and LATAM included.
So after spending days reading these comments back and forth i'll jump in here briefly. I completely agree with this statement. If i look at myself, and I live in the UK, i think there are some very scary parallels to the beginning of World War II here. Hitler also believed that Germany was culturally superior, and that his neighbors didn't have the right to exist as they were. He was unabashedly imperialistic. The rest of the world dithered while he started swallowing his neighbors, hoping that diplomacy would prevail. As we know, it didn't. Putin is acting very similarly to Hitler in my opinion and, for me, that strikes a visceral chord. i firmly believe his intentions were/are to swallow back up as many foreign ex-Soviet countries as he can. He really believed Ukraine would be easy and he'd go in and be done by dinner time. The world more or less turned a blind eye before as he's done this on a smaller scale previously (Crimea, etc.) but this business of an unprovoked, bloody invasion in Ukraine that is clearly (clearly) also designed to wipe a lot of the people, culture and infrastructure out, was too much. NO ONE who was a major part of the allied forces in WWII wants this to go down again. The fact that Russia has started this with clear intentions of not stopping with Ukraine, should be taken very seriously.

To add - i fully support the ban on Russian and Belarus athletes and hope it continues until they are fully out of Ukraine and behave themselves. Since i don't think they will, i fully expect those countries' athletes to be banned for multiple years.
 

irenemulindwairen

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It could have been cumulative effect too. Russia indeed started multiple conflicts, helped use chemical weapons in Syria, assassinated people in Europe using chemicals and nuclear poison, and was suspected in state-sponsored doping. This extra violent and bloody war could have been the last straw.
And Russia is responsible for the chaos in Central African Republic as well.
 

skategal

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Ok, but here I'd like to stop you please because here the valid arguments end and the Russian propaganda begins.

This is incorrect. You equate "apply sanctions" and "send arms to Ukraine" with supporting Ukraine and bunch the rest with the "don't care" or "support Russia". I fail to see how it is acceptable.

All but 5 countries with X absentees voted against Russia during the UN resolution regarding Ukraine. To quote, "UN-shmun", but this is as close to an international concensus we can technically get. And every single country that spoke about the war, including China and India, all called for the war to be ended and on this or the other way put the responsibility on Russia. Only Venezuela, Syria and Belarus showed any support, either verbally or militarily(vs. some 40 that actively help Ukraine), and the not applying the sanctions ones aren't letting Russia to break them either. Plus every international organization reported about the catastrophic effects on everybody, and/or expelled Russia to some degree.

So no, what you say here is facts twisting. The world IS united over Ukraine in a way I don't recall ever seeing before, at least not on this scale.
100% agree.

Plus the wealthy western more powerful nations are the ones that can apply sanctions without starving or causing irreparable harm to their citizens. Some Countries in Africa, South America as well as China and India struggle to feed and provide the basics for their citizens and just lost a major grain producer (Ukraine.)

The wealthy, western nations should be the countries taking the lead here and the others will do what they can when they can.
 

PRlady

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Global South countries that are probably not pro-Russian but grit their collective teeth at their former colonists, well I get that. I realized this belatedly when I made friends with Israelis who came from Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay. All leftists and all anti-US. One told me she thought the US was responsible for most of the world’s problems since WWII.

I didn’t agree with her but it certainly made an impression on this Yanqui.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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I haven't been keeping track of the Russian pairs & ice dance "confirmed" splits and/or retirements ... does someone have a list? (guess I can plough back through this thread for the skating-related posts...)

Ekaterina Katashinskaia / Matvey Grachev (RUS) have split after one season together (9th at 2022 Junior Nationals). He has decided to quit the sport and she is looking for a new partner, according to her post today: https://www.instagram.com/p/CdOPcLuoPM6/

She is 17 and competed internationally with her previous partner, Aleksandr Vaskovich: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00106650.htm

ETA from April 18:
Kadyrova/Balchenko split, she will be skating with Valeri Kolesov in Moskvina's group (from ria.ru/Simonenko/Samokhvalov)
Akhanteva/Kolesov's ISU bio: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00101103.htm

Copied from Jackie Wong's rockerskating blog:

Splits:
Kseniia Akhanteva/Valerii Kolesov (April 2022)
Yasmina Kadyrova/Ivan Balchenko (April 2022)
Annabelle Morozov/Andrei Bagin (March 2022)
Alina Pepeleva/Roman Pleshkov (April 2022)
Elizaveta Shanaeva/Devid Naryzhnyy (March 2022)
Sofia Shevchenko/Igor Eremenko RUS (March 2022)

New partnerships:
Yasmina Kadyrova/Valerii Kolesov
Annabelle Morozov/Devid Naryzhnyy
 
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Dobre

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I believe Ushakova & Nekrasov's split is confirmed, as he reportedly has a new partner.
 
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