Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[skatingguy]

I think Surya should have been credited with the quad jump because she landed it and then tripped on her toe picks when she turned around celebrating it. She had clearly completed the jump and landed backwards. They credited Kurt's turnout on the quad toe landing.

I'm not sure which quad attempt you're referring to - here's a video with a bunch of them. If it's 1991 World Championships then the jump was underrotated, and landed on two feet. It was a good attempt but without a clear one foot landing it was not going to be ratified.

https://youtu.be/FCW5eHCWsbw?t=70

 

[canbelto]

I know some posters here are way more familiar with Surya's story than I am. But I thought it was her mom who dismissed the feedback about Surya needing better edges as the judges just not understanding the true brilliance of Surya's skating. I.e. she knew that she needed to improve her edges, but her mom thought they were just fine, and so nothing happened.

Re the tights issue, I also remember that after Surya got dissed for not wearing tights, she showed up at some competitions wearing light-coloured knee-high tights that she folded down over the tops of her boots. And then got dissed for her boots looking ugly. She really couldn't win.

Back in the day I remember nylons for women coming in three shades: "Suntan" (a hideous orange color), "nude" (usually a way too light for most skin tones color), and black. It wasn't a good world for women whose skin tones weren't those colors. I imagine it was even worse with skating tights.

Thankfully nylon colors have gotten much better.

 

[Karen-W]

Back in the day I remember nylons for women coming in three shades: "Suntan" (a hideous orange color), "nude" (usually a way too light for most skin tones color), and black. It wasn't a good world for women whose skin tones weren't those colors. I imagine it was even worse with skating tights.

Thankfully nylon colors have gotten much better.

Oh, don't forget "taupe" which was that hideous greyish coffee brown tone, lol. Whiter than white girl that I am, I usually alternated between "suntan" and "nude" but I can't imagine being a figure skater and trying to find tights that matched my skin tone for competition.

 

[overedge]

Oh, don't forget "taupe" which was that hideous greyish coffee brown tone, lol. Whiter than white girl that I am, I usually alternated between "suntan" and "nude" but I can't imagine being a figure skater and trying to find tights that matched my skin tone for competition.

And dying the tights usually didn't work. Either the dye would look streaky when the fabric stretched, or when you sweated the dye would rub into your skin....

 

[canbelto]

Oh, don't forget "taupe" which was that hideous greyish coffee brown tone, lol. Whiter than white girl that I am, I usually alternated between "suntan" and "nude" but I can't imagine being a figure skater and trying to find tights that matched my skin tone for competition.

Omg I do remember "taupe." I also remembered that occasionally, companies would be really progressive and roll out a "coffee" colored shade, that basically assumed women of color had the exact shade of a cup of coffee.

I also remember looking at Princess Diana's legs and wondering why my nylons didn't look nearly as nice as hers lol.

 

[ElleL]

Isn't this the Valieva thread?

 

[Vagabond]

Isn't this the Valieva thread?

Who?

 

[MacMadame]

The "exotic" thing -- iirc Suzanne Bonaly contributed to that. Didn't she make up some story about how Surya was adopted and it turned out to be not true?

She was adopted though. The lie was that she was adopted from Réunion, an island off the coast of Madagascar, and was found lying on a coconut-strewn beach. It was her mother who started this story. Didier did make up some crap about Surya but that was not one.

 

[tony]

She was adopted though. The lie was that she was adopted from Réunion, an island off the coast of Madagascar, and was found lying on a coconut-strewn beach. It was her mother who started this story. Didier did make up some crap about Surya but that was not one.

IIRC pretty sure it was Gailhaguet that started and pushed the story. There was a fluff during 92 Worlds I believe where they really put the pressure on her to answer and her mom was just over the interviewer's shoulder basically telling her not to answer, but I still think it was Didier's doing.

ETA- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLyAq4L9obA found it, 1993 Worlds. And it is attributed to Suzanne, but they flat-out say that Didier helped make it up @ 3:40 in the video. Since he was her first coach, the story was only created once she was a figure skater.

 

[MacMadame]

That's interesting. I only remember Suzanne saying that on my tv.

 

[canbelto]

Damn, I want to be found on an abandoned coconut beach.

 

[Karen-W]

Damn, I want to be found on an abandoned coconut beach.

I'd settle for just being on an abandoned coconut beach. No one needs to find me as long as I've got my internet, laptop, and sweet cat.

 

[tony]

I got curious and started reading more into the stories and found this

OVER EASY FOR SURYA BONALY THE SKATING HAS NEVER BEEN THE HARD PART

THE EUROPEAN figure skating championships had concluded a dayearlier. Now, down on the ice, the exhibition gala for the topfinishers was rolling into its

vault.si.com

When asked who came up with all the fanciful stories,
Gailhaguet says, `I made them up.'' Why? `The journalists loved it,''
Gailhaguet says. ``They wrote that [Reunion] thing like crazy.
Because that's what you want to hear, no? It's a good story. . . .
Reunion, it was just an idea I had at the moment. . . . We did
that together, me and the mother. We said Surya came from Nice,
but the [biological] parents came from Reunion. Really, we had no
idea.''

So why did he pick Reunion?

``I just always wanted to go there,'' Gailhaguet says with a
shrug.

 

[Karen-W]

I got curious and started reading more into the stories and found this

OVER EASY FOR SURYA BONALY THE SKATING HAS NEVER BEEN THE HARD PART

THE EUROPEAN figure skating championships had concluded a dayearlier. Now, down on the ice, the exhibition gala for the topfinishers was rolling into its

vault.si.com

So, basically, yeah, it was all Didier and what choice did Suzanne Bonaly have but to go along with him?

 

[canbelto]

The strong jumpers of Surya's era weren't really appreciated. Midori and Tonya weren't really judges favorites either.

 

[Nadya]

Damn, I want to be found on an abandoned coconut beach.

I want to be on that beach. Just not found.

 

[skatingguy]

The strong jumpers of Surya's era weren't really appreciated. Midori and Tonya weren't really judges favorites either.

And yet Ito was World Champion, and Olympic Silver Medalist, and Bonaly & Harding were both World Silver Medalists. and Bonaly won numerous European Championships.

 

[canbelto]

And yet Ito was World Champion, and Olympic Silver Medalist, and Bonaly & Harding were both World Silver Medalists. and Bonaly won numerous European Championships.

They did win stuff. But they weren't the FAVORITES the way Kristi Yamaguchi or Nancy Kerrigan were favorites.

 

[VGThuy]

Which is funny because Kristi herself said she felt like the underdog to Midori and Tonya before and even after 1991 Worlds. She mentioned how so much talk was all about how she couldn't win if Midori and Tonya skated well, but Kristi drowned out the noise and did what she could to equalize her tech content to theirs, and boy did she. She had a 3Lutz/3Toe and IJS programs before IJS. Honestly, had Midori skated up to her 1989-1990 (non-compulsory phase) level during the 1990-1991 season and the 1992 Fall season (at that time it was like one international) or Tonya did more performances like her 1991 Nationals one more often that season and the early next season and at 1992 Nationals, they would have been the clear faves going into Albertville.

 

[jenny12]

And yet Ito was World Champion, and Olympic Silver Medalist, and Bonaly & Harding were both World Silver Medalists. and Bonaly won numerous European Championships.

Yeah, while they might not have been favored behind the scenes, they were successful. Also, was there really ever a competition where they were robbed (aside from perhaps 1994 Worlds)? None of them were the most consistent performers outside of Ito who lost 1992 because of her own errors.

 

[Rukia]

Oddly, I've seen photos of Natalia and today she is thinner, younger-looking, and prettier than Katia. Katia looks good too, but Natalia looks really ageless.

This has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but having seen Natalia and Katia in close proximity, as of a couple of years ago anyway, Katia was way tinier and looked younger in person. Not to say Natalia wasn't beautiful, because she was, but she looked older that Katia.

Surya was also there, and she was beautiful. Also super nice (as was Katia).

 

[millyskate]

Re: Surya, I grew up in France as a Surya fan. I watched every single news item, documentary, bought every single magazine with my pocket money. They provided good insight into what Surya was being told at the time because the coverage was abundant and varied in its sources.
As the link I provided illustrates, where Dick (I think) shamelessly calls out a stunning and classy performance by Surya as "having very little grace, very little elegance", this is what Surya was being told. This is what she was trying to work on.
Every year there would be a news feature about Surya releasing her new program and what creative ways they'd come up with to try and convince the judges she was "artistic".
Everything was being deployed to try and help Surya win but edges never came up. It may well have done in judges feedback, but drowned by the louder noise of "not elegant". That did the harm.

Anecdotally in that pro competition Surya's very beautiful and elaborate choreo full of transitions is repeadtedly dissed as "improvisatory" and not rehearsed. Michelle's much emptier program from the same occasion is praised as having an "improvisational quality".

Some story lines that were prevalent in the US were absolutely not front and centre in France. The tights? Nobody cared or noticed. I remember hearing a commentator mentioning it as if it was something impressive and wondering if it related to how her feet might feel uncomfortable in skates without tights, not the look.
The olympic back flip? By then Surya and the French media knew she was past her competitive best and it was anecdotal. The narrative was she knew she wasn't going for a medal that year and went out to have fun.

Within the French skating world Surya was also treated poorly. I remember an article in my local paper following an ice show where Candeloro failed to show up. They had dug out the compensation for various skaters and Candeloro was paid literally three times the amount Surya was paid per show. At the time Surya and Philippe were equal draws for the public.

I wondered long after if Surya continued to be so popular with show organisers because they could underpay her.
She'd show up, do the actual work of skating accomplished programs, entertain the crowd and then some headliner would skate three circles round the rink, pop a jump and collect they paycheck or the "competition" win. This is speculation on my part - triggered by that article I read regarding compensation, and by my observation of watching pro skating that Surya was working three times as hard as nearly everyone else to stay on top of her skills and even improve.

Did her mum dismiss judges feedback? It is quite likely to some extent. But what mum wouldn't when 80% of what they were saying was absolute nonsense and claiming your beautiful daughter didn't meet their standards of elegance.

 

[On My Own]

As the link I provided illustrates, where Dick (I think) shamelessly calls out a stunning and classy performance by Surya as "having very little grace, very little elegance", this is what Surya was being told.

Here's the full quote for anyone interested.

You know, she's amazing. She really has very little grace, very little elegance, but a dynamic theatricality that doesn't stop. That's the hallmark of her skating style.

Can someone tell me how this is an insult to Bonaly's skating? The way I read it, Button finds her to not be elegant, but does find her to be dynamic and theatrical, and appreciates her for it.

Everything was being deployed to try and help Surya win but edges never came up. It may well have done in judges feedback, but drowned by the louder noise of "not elegant". That did the harm.

Clearly remember Sandra Bezic saying something about her skating skills, in a rather rude manner, which you don't seem to bring up?

Anecdotally in that pro competition Surya's very beautiful and elaborate choreo full of transitions is repeadtedly dissed as "improvisatory" and not rehearsed. Michelle's much emptier program from the same occasion is praised as having an "improvisational quality".

Not sure which competition this is, you'd have to link it with commentary. But "improvisational" isn't a "diss" necessarily. Improvisational musicality and choreography is very much in used dance. Same for "unrehearsed".

If the context of the comment is that her movement looks underdeveloped or throaway and unrefined, then that is a valid criticism depending on how she was skating vs Kwan.

Every year there would be a news feature about Surya releasing her new program and what creative ways they'd come up with to try and convince the judges she was "artistic".

Again, clearly remember Dick Button pointing out she's not balletic, but her movement looked more like modern dance - not a "diss" either.

Will try to find these links and paste them in (or correct myself if I'm wrong).

 

[antmanb]

Here's the full quote for anyone interested.



Can someone tell me how this is an insult to Bonaly's skating? The way I read it, Button finds her to not be elegant, but does find her to be dynamic and theatrical, and appreciates her for it.

It's called a shit sandwich - you can ignore the attempted "compliments" that book end the real thing they are saying in the middle.

 

[millyskate]

Can someone tell me how this is an insult to Bonaly's skating? The way I read it, Button finds her to not be elegant, but does find her to be dynamic and theatrical, and appreciates her for it.

Did you actually watch the skate? it was full of grace and epitomised elegance. Yet he persists in seeing her through a lens where to him, those are qualities that are impossible to achieve. His comments relate to the stereotype, not what is actually happening. I find it incredibly painful listening - the definition of a back-handed compliment.

 

[On My Own]

It's called a shit sandwich - you can ignore the attempted "compliments" that book end the real thing they are saying in the middle.

It is possible I didn't understand his tone and context. Thanks for explaining.

 

[On My Own]

Did you actually watch the skate?

Yes? I wouldn't describe it as elegant (definitely not this move, that he made the comment after https://youtu.be/95aTlgn9Fw8?t=217). This word is subjective. I don't find a lack of elegance unartistic, either, which is why I interpreted Button's words differently. Interesting, athletic, dramatic, and fiery are the words I'd use for Bonaly's skating, along with musical when she was at her best.

ETA: He makes the comments about improvisational for Surya right after she ends this very performance, where I stopped watching though. I agree this reads like a criticism, but I also agree with the way he phrased his criticism. It doesn't really read like a developed program to me. Will find Kwan's performance with commentary from here and compare.

I will also agree that it's very likely Surya faced racism in her career though. I just personally (again, maybe because of my own flawed perception of the tone and context of these comments) didn't think these comments were rude or incorrect.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Isn't this the Valieva thread?

You have high expectations

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

You have high expectations

Isn't this the Valieva thread?

At this point, it's a thread for our own fuelled flights of fancy

 

[Coco]

Shout out to my mom, who from our couch in the late 80s, said "you know, some people would call that comment racist," when Dick Button said Debi Thomas had "street smart musicality."