Russia’s 3rd lady for worlds

[jenniferlyon]

The quad girls still have to go through the main part of the experiment which is whether they can sustain those jumps through puberty. I think it would be unwise to make assumptions that they will block out all the other skaters indefinitely.

There are so many of them, chances are that at least one of them will be able to keep the jumps after puberty. It is also possible that some of them won't go through puberty until after they've skated at senior level for awhile.

 

[Wyliefan]

Or maybe someone could, I don't know, consider teaching them technique that would stand them in good stead after puberty. I know it's crazy, but it might just be crazy enough to work!

 

[bardtoob]

Tuk is the only skater of the senior ladies with cutting edge content.

 

[Polaris]

Tuk is the only skater of the senior ladies with cutting edge content.

She has zero choreography...

 

[tripleflutz]

I feel bad for Tuktamysheva, but despite her impressive comeback I suspect the Russian fed just feels she isnt much of a prospect moving forward. Also at NHK despite skating perfectly she not only lost to Kihira, but Miyahara too. Someone like Medvedeva would never in a million years skate cleanly and lose to Miyahara, not even in Japan. And Miyahara not only beat her on PCS (predictable) but jump GOE even with her tiny little jumps. If you look at the protocals Miyahara got higher GOE on almost all her clean jumps than Tuk. on hers, which is what barely inched her in front, along with the much higher PCS and some higher GOE on spins, despite the much lower base value. Kihira meanwhile slaughtered her in jump GOE in addition to a higher base value. And jumps are supposed to be Tuktamysheva's strength.

And frankly with Sofia a late blooming riser who looks to be getting stronger, Medvedeva and Zagitova still around, and all the up and comers, Tuktamysheva has no real shot moving forward. I can see the Russian fed. logic in not sending her, now that there is valid excuse/rational behind considering not to.

 

[tripleflutz]

The quad girls still have to go through the main part of the experiment which is whether they can sustain those jumps through puberty. I think it would be unwise to make assumptions that they will block out all the other skaters indefinitely.

I agree in that I suspect most of them, especialy the current Super 3, will fizzle out within 3 years max, someone probably before then. Eteri teaches technique that only works on children with tiny bodies anyway, she doesnt build skaters for longevity, nor does she care. That is pretty much irrelevant to the older skaters though, just them lasting another year or two strong would be enough to freeze most of them out of a Worlds for good. Especialy as you know there are more on the way.

Between Sofia, Evgenia, Alina, Elizaveta, it is hard to see any future year more than 1 of those makes a 3 women World team, maybe at a real stretch 2 at best one time. And amongst those 4 I would say the likelihood of making future teams is probably Sofia > Evgenia > Alina > Elizaveta in that exact order.

 

[Vash01]

She has zero choreography...

Choreography doesnt matter to the judges if you have the jumps. Prime example is Nathan Chen. As long as Liza has the 3A she will be competitive. She still has to land the other jumps but she has the best jump technique. If she lands all the jumps consistently, her PCS will rise.

 

[Polaris]

Nathan Chen's programs are choreographed by Shae-Lynn Bourne. He has choreography.

Tukt has been consistent all season, but she is sorely lacking everything besides jumps, so her PCS has a cap to it, no matter how well she jumps.

Also, I say Kihira's jumps > Tukt's, especially when it comes to 3A technique.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Nathan Chen's programs are choreographed by Shae-Lynn Bourne. He has choreography.

Tukt has been consistent all season, but she is sorely lacking everything besides jumps, so her PCS has a cap to it, no matter how well she jumps.

Also, I say Kihira's jumps > Tukt's, especially when it comes to 3A technique.

Nathan’s SP by Shae and FP by Marie France Dubreuil w/ Sam Chouinard for the step sequence. I love both programs.

 

[Vagabond]

Tuk is the only skater of the senior ladies with cutting edge content.

Tutkamysheva has a triple axel, and that's about it. Zagitova, however, has by far the most complicated and difficult choreography and transitions of the Russian ladies. And I say that as someone who can't find much of anything else to admire about her skating.

 

[starrynight]

For all the talk of Tuktamysheva not having much to offer she’s placed very well this season and has beaten a lot of other skaters.

 

[Vagabond]

For all the talk of Tuktamysheva not having much to offer she’s placed very well this season and has beaten a lot of other skaters.

Tuktamysheva has a lot to offer, but other than her triple axel, it's not "cutting edge technical content." It's good, solid skating.

 

[bardtoob]

Also, I say Kihira's jumps > Tukt's, especially when it comes to 3A technique.

No, Tuk's 3A has a more universal technique. Kihira's technique works for a more specific body type.

 

[Marco]

Well, for those who said this is going to be the last year for the veterans to make Worlds, I should remind you that Kostornaia managed to place 3rd at Nationals despite not having a 3axel or quad (or two). Medvedeva and Zagitova didn't place higher at Nationals because they made mistakes, not just because they were outjumped.

The key for Medvedeva, Zagitova and Tuktamysheva is going to be consistency and quality, and the GOE and PCS will come. Tuktamysheva does have lesser quality to her non jump elements and programs so it is going to be tougher for her so that 3axel is going to be very valuable.

Having said that, I would totally enjoy a Tuk Lutz from a long back edge and simple, strong landing over one of those 3lutzes from anyone else with complicated steps before and after the jump, even though I somewhat understand why the latter would score higher in GOE.

 

[quartz]

She has zero choreography...

Bah. She has sass and attitude and that’s worth more than 10 other skaters doing yet another same ole same ole CarmenRomeoandJulietteCinderellaEtcEtc crap.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Or maybe someone could, I don't know, consider teaching them technique that would stand them in good stead after puberty. I know it's crazy, but it might just be crazy enough to work!

You're just jealous that Eteri has more dead animals in her wardrobe cosmetic enhancements bitch face variations students who will be happier when they leave her pseudoscientific dietary suggestions success than you do!!!!!

 

[alexikeguchi]

Well, for those who said this is going to be the last year for the veterans to make Worlds, I should remind you that Kostornaia managed to place 3rd at Nationals despite not having a 3axel or quad (or two).

And she might actually have pulled out the win if she hadn't had a freak fall on the step sequence in the SP.

 

[annie_mg]

Bah. She has sass and attitude and that’s worth more than 10 other skaters doing yet another same ole same ole CarmenRomeoandJulietteCinderellaEtcEtc crap.

Sorry but when did attitude (only when not thinking about a technical element btw) become better than true artistry, musical interpretation, carriage, choreography that actually follows the whole music, etc? I think people are getting things mixed up. Save the "sass" for the gala performance and get serious for the competitive programme! Seriously.

 

[quartz]

Sorry but when did attitude (only when not thinking about a technical element btw) become better than true artistry, musical interpretation, carriage, choreography that actually follows the whole music, etc? I think people are getting things mixed up. Save the "sass" for the gala performance and get serious for the competitive programme! Seriously.

Oops - forgot to add a sense of humour to my list of criteria I admire. Some have it, some clearly don’t.

 

[annie_mg]

Oops - forgot to add a sense of humour to my list of criteria I admire. Some have it, some clearly don’t.

You're right I don't, sorry. But I've seen many people mix up 5 seconds of selling a programme with artistry throughout.

 

[quartz]

You're right I don't, sorry. But I've seen many people mix up 5 seconds of selling a programme with artistry throughout.

No worries, to each their own. I believe sass IS artistry and should be given bonus points. There should be a scale of 1 perkova up to 10 perkovas, to be determined by a separate committee called "Funners".
And I would deduct points for being dour and dismal because who wants that in their life??
Also deductions for single skaters doing a tango because you shouldn't broadcast the fact you can't get a date, but that's for another discussion.

 

[starrynight]

One thing I've liked about Tuktamysheva this season is that when she comes out to skate she looks completely confident and happy to be there.

Tuktamysheva was the first lady I really liked and she kind of ruined ladies skating for me because after watching her jumps, all the other jumps from other ladies just looked like tiny, gangly little things.

 

[tripleflutz]

Well, for those who said this is going to be the last year for the veterans to make Worlds, I should remind you that Kostornaia managed to place 3rd at Nationals despite not having a 3axel or quad (or two). Medvedeva and Zagitova didn't place higher at Nationals because they made mistakes, not just because they were outjumped.

The key for Medvedeva, Zagitova and Tuktamysheva is going to be consistency and quality, and the GOE and PCS will come. Tuktamysheva does have lesser quality to her non jump elements and programs so it is going to be tougher for her so that 3axel is going to be very valuable.

Having said that, I would totally enjoy a Tuk Lutz from a long back edge and simple, strong landing over one of those 3lutzes from anyone else with complicated steps before and after the jump, even though I somewhat understand why the latter would score higher in GOE.

Eteri teaches technique that only works on children, so good luck to Zagitova ever regaining her 2018 jumping level which she would need to even realistically be in the fight for future teams vs a slew of girls who can outjump even her former top level. If she has the balls to try a major coaching change, she might just maybe have a shot, but then again Evgenia tried that and it hasnt exactly worked out either. Still even Evgeni had the good sense and saw she would never keep her jumps, which were already declining in 2018 hence her losses to Zagitova, into adulthood with Eteri's technique.

Tuktamysheva turned back the clock and had her best year of skating hands down after only 2015. I was super happy for her to witness it. It still was not enough to make it to Worlds in a year Zagitova and Medvedeva had awful years, Medvedeva especialy, and Kostornaia, Shcherbakova, and Trusova were all ineligible. Yeah she was probably unlucky to fall ill before Nationals, but if she manages a future big Russian team at this point I will be slightly amazed. That is why I feel gutted for her, especialy if she had not been ill before Nationals and skated at Europeans she atleast might have made it. As you said she falls short of the others in everything but having a triple axel, and that isnt even that big a deal anymore when there are many Russian and Japanese girls with either a quad or triple axel, some better than hers.

I think Medvedeva and Samodurnova have some chance moving forward, Samodurnova moreso of the two at this point IMO. Sofia seems like the kind of person to take the Elena Sokolova or Anna Pogorilaya or Leonova former spot as the reliable (well not always reliable in Anna's case, LOL) perennial #3 girl on teams, she fits the role perfectly. Zagitova could be in the fight too but probably only with a coaching change and completely revamping her technique like Medvedeva is trying to do now. If she stays with Eteri she will have a very hard time making any future teams after this year, in fact I see her retiring well before the 2022 Games if she stays with Eteri.

 

[bardtoob]

Tuktamysheva has grit. She has gone through what the other girls have gone through TWICE and retained her 3A.

 

[Jarrett]

I feel bad for Tuktamysheva, but despite her impressive comeback I suspect the Russian fed just feels she isnt much of a prospect moving forward. Also at NHK despite skating perfectly she not only lost to Kihira, but Miyahara too. Someone like Medvedeva would never in a million years skate cleanly and lose to Miyahara, not even in Japan. And Miyahara not only beat her on PCS (predictable) but jump GOE even with her tiny little jumps. If you look at the protocals Miyahara got higher GOE on almost all her clean jumps than Tuk. on hers, which is what barely inched her in front, along with the much higher PCS and some higher GOE on spins, despite the much lower base value. Kihira meanwhile slaughtered her in jump GOE in addition to a higher base value. And jumps are supposed to be Tuktamysheva's strength.

And frankly with Sofia a late blooming riser who looks to be getting stronger, Medvedeva and Zagitova still around, and all the up and comers, Tuktamysheva has no real shot moving forward. I can see the Russian fed. logic in not sending her, now that there is valid excuse/rational behind considering not to.

Sofia is a late bloomer winning Euros at 16? This is her first season as a Senior wth.

 

[caseyedwards]

Sofia is a late bloomer winning Euros at 16? This is her first season as a Senior wth.

But she wasn’t famous at 12

 

[Marco]

That "get rich quick" Eteri technique is probably still worth it for the skaters and their parents even if it would just last for one senior season, as long as the skaters have the good fortune of overlapping that season with the Olympic season (like it was for Julia and Alina). Worse comes to worst, they will still have their apartments.

Who knows, Trusova and Shchberkova may already be over the hill and done with by 2022.

 

[tripleflutz]

Sofia is a late bloomer winning Euros at 16? This is her first season as a Senior wth.

For current Russian standards she is. Nobody heard of her as a 14 year old which is rare for a young Russian phenom today.

 

[tripleflutz]

That "get rich quick" Eteri technique is probably still worth it for the skaters and their parents even if it would just last for one senior season, as long as the skaters have the good fortune of overlapping that season with the Olympic season (like it was for Julia and Alina). Worse comes to worst, they will still have their apartments.

Who knows, Trusova and Shchberkova may already be over the hill and done with by 2022.

Pretty much. For skaters like Zagitova they hit the jackpot, even if they are likely flashes in the pan which Zagitova already looks very likely to be. Even Mededeva, despite not winning the Olympics, can retire today a huge success and very happy. Most from her school probably wont be so fortunate.

It would not be surprise me one bit if atleast 1 of Trusova or Shchberkova is already washed up by 2022.

 

[Tak]

The first time I saw Tukt perform was 7-8 years ago, Cup of Russia EX?, where she performed with a red fan. I have been a fan of her skating ever since. I am saddened that she was not chosen to represent RUS at the Worlds.
At the same time, I am somewhat surprised that there was this much controversy for the third spot.
If you look at the last skater to achieve what Med achieved 2016-18 (2 World titles and Oly Silver), for USA and JPN respectively, it would be Michelle Kwan (5 World titles and Oly Silver) and Mao Asada (3 World titles and Oly Silver).
There would have been no argument in respective countries that these skaters would deserve the third slot. For RUS, probably Irina Slutsukaya would be the last one prior to Med to achieve multiple WC crown and Oly non-Gold medals.
There were times when Michelle declined to participate in GPS, when Mao had really dissapointing results in GPS, but nobody really argued against if they deserved to represent respective countries at Worlds.
I would like to wish all future success to RUS Ladies representatives at Worlds, and also to Elizaveta and Konstantinova.