Royalty Thread#12 Tiaras, Palaces & Gilded Cages

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I think the main purpose of the survey was to draw attention to the issues. The media is happy to give front page attention to a short survey by the Duchess, while academic reports are either ignored or buried in the back sections. The average parent doesn't consult experts about case studies, but might listen to a royal surrounded by adorable kids and cute farm animals.

Sure, none of those questions are new, but people are talking and thinking about them now who were not before.

It's not much different than when royals visit charities. They aren't there to actually do the work, they're there to put a focus on what others are already doing.
 
But that's exactly what some of the research has examined. What parents think or want or need, and what types of programs can best address those circumstances.



I don't believe I said that she personally designed the survey herself. But I don't know why the experts she consulted with didn't tell her that research has alreadly addressed the questions that are being asked. That research would give some very useful ideas as to what programs she could support.

She could have just skipped doing the survey and made a donation to the early childhood development section of the National Public Health Program (chronically underfunded in pretty much every country in the world.)
 
She could have just skipped doing the survey and made a donation to the early childhood development section of the National Public Health Program (chronically underfunded in pretty much every country in the world.)

No reason she couldn't do both. I'm sure Kate makes plenty of donations to causes.
 
Sure, none of those questions are new, but people are talking and thinking about them now who were not before.

How do we know this?

It's not much different than when royals visit charities. They aren't there to actually do the work, they're there to put a focus on what others are already doing.

Most of the coverage I've seen of Kate's activities around this initiative are focusing on the survey, not on the programs that she's visiting. And as @skategal says, a lot of those programs are probably chronically underfunded. I don't see Kate saying, these programs are really important and they should be getting more money.
 
starrynight said:
The approximately $88 billion dollars the royal family is worth didn't come from them working jobs.

That's the spoils of hundreds of years of conquest
and consequential land ownership and wealth flowing from birth right.

The whole system of the creation of this wealth based on ruling classes and the idea that by luck of birth an individual is superior to others is just a polarising opposite to modern concepts of equality. So yes, I do find it fascinating how people benefiting from this system happily collect the vast financial spoils and status and then get upset that the public doesn't adore them enough. In a world of true equality, the class system wouldn't exist.

I used to be a big fan of the royals, but many of them are rapidly revealing themselves to be utterly unremarkable people
who have been elevated by nothing more than birth into positions of incredible privilege and 'superiority'.

:huh: I don't even know where to begin. You are mixing up so much. And you are being very unclear about what and who you are talking about. What has this got to do with Meghan & Harry in particular??? They aren't collecting 'vast financial spoils and status'! And they are in no way upset about not being adored enough by the public!!! Are you kidding? The Sussexes are upset about the media continually writing lies about them. Plus, there are a lot of people who understand and appreciate what the Sussexes are trying to do and have done with their status and privilege to help others in need.

Regarding the bolded text of your comments:

The Queen works. Charles works. Anne works. The Wessexes work, etc. It is not a piece-of-cake being born into the British royal family. There is a huge personal price to pay. Of course, there are also perks. It's not easy for any of us to weigh the personal costs of being born royal, because we haven't experienced what that's like. We've only observed from afar. And then there are personal differences among the royals themselves in how they each have navigated their individual experiences of being royal. Of course, many of them are out-of-touch due to leading privileged lives, but I think Diana PoW managed to help Harry and to a degree William, be a bit less out-of-touch. However, William has been hampered by being surrounded by 'gray men' and palace p.r. due to his heir-to-the-throne status.

FYI: Harry & Meghan have done a lot of work as senior royals, and they have wanted to do even more work, but have been restricted in what they are able to do. That's one of the reasons why they decided to step down and try to gain more freedom over their own decision-making regarding the work they do!

Regarding the class system. There's more of a class system in Britain than there is in the U.S. I don't know where you're from, and it's not clear what you are referring to exactly and how it connects with Meghan and Harry?

You posted your above response to a quoted comment of mine about Meghan and Harry. It's not clear to me what connections you are trying to make. We can't wave a magic wand and change thousands of years of British royal history or world history. Your comments are very unclear and over-generalized. There have been wars and conquests since the beginning of time. :drama: Yes, European colonialism was not a good thing, but it happened and we can't change what happened in history. We can only try to learn from the lessons of history. Too many people aren't exactly interested in learning from those lessons, sure. But you aren't helping the situation you are decrying with such confusing over-generalizations.

Who among the royals are revealing themselves to be 'utterly unremarkable people?' Who exactly? Surely you aren't talking about Meghan & Harry! They are two of the more remarkable members of the British royal family. Do you think it makes them 'unremarkable' because they have decided to step back and concentrate on doing more to help people and to carve out a more private life that includes nurturing and protecting their son!?

Since Meghan is a part of the royal family by marriage, let's focus on Harry. He is one of the more popular members of the royal family because of his caring, down-to-earth, outgoing nature. Harry does not seem to care overmuch about any of the pomp and circumstance of royal life. He has shown himself to care more about making a difference in the world. He has served his country diligently and devotedly as a soldier and as a senior royal. Harry certainly DOES NOT feel he's 'superior' to other people! Of course he has a different status that he can't escape simply by being royal, but he should not be blamed for his accident of birth. At least Harry has tried to stand for something more than being royal, and he's trying to forge a meaningful life through using his privileged status to help others.

Meanwhile, every bit of money Meghan has, she earned through her own hard work, perseverance, astute investments, and knowledge of money management (i.e., using her hard-earned money wisely).

I think you need to separate the fact that Harry is wealthy from his being royal. Not everyone who is wealthy was born royal. The bulk of Harry's inheritance is from his mother's estate (which probably in large part constitutes Diana's own personal investments of money she inherited from her father, 8th Earl Spencer). Harry has also received money from his great-grandmother, the Queen Mother (Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon). And the bulk of that probably comes from the Queen Mother's wealthy Scottish family, the Bowes-Lyons.

Once again, Harry & Meghan are stepping down as senior royals in part because they apparently have issues with certain aspects of the royal system and of the narrow strictures and limitations imposed upon them. They aren't doing it because they feel 'superior' to anyone!!!

What you and a lot of people perhaps need to rethink is being jealous of those who are wealthy. Yes, the current wealth imbalance between rich and poor is extremely prohibitive and NOT a good thing for global economic health in the long run. But that's because of greed. There actually is enough abundance for everyone in this world. It is greed that makes it seem as if there is lack.

Meanwhile, I do not view Meghan and Harry as greedy. Every wealthy person is not greedy. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy if you don't covet and hoard money and if you are also working hard to give back to others. It matters what you do with your wealth that counts. Please understand that living well is something everyone has a right to aspire to, and once achieved, to enjoy. There's nothing wrong with enjoying one's wealth and the fruits of one's labors. This is particularly true for the wealthy who are conscientious enough to devote part of their energy and enthusiasm in helping others to improve their lot in life.
 
It is much harder to cut programs that are on the front page of the paper. Most people respond well when they think someone is listening to their concerns. This survey checks both those boxes. It is not the only thing she is doing and was only open for a very short time. It is a way of having a national discussion about the importance of early childhood education. It is also a way of getting parents involved in the conversation. Kate is not preaching to them, she is trying to get people involved by listening to both experts and parents and then trying to facilitate change. The actual survey and questions are just a small tool in a much larger whole.

It doesn’t matter if the research has been done if no one is acting in it and the government is still cutting every chance it gets. The people involved are happy for the help in shining a light on an important subject. That is the main thing.
 
How do we know this?
I've got nothing but anecdotal evidence - I've seen comments and tweets from people saying they really had to think about the choices and talked about them with others. And hey, I've never posted about early childhood development before, so that's one, anyway. :COP:

Most of the coverage I've seen of Kate's activities around this initiative are focusing on the survey, not on the programs that she's visiting. And as @skategal says, a lot of those programs are probably chronically underfunded. I don't see Kate saying, these programs are really important and they should be getting more money.
Does the typical charity visit include the Queen or whoever stepping up to the microphone and announcing "Hey everybody, give them money!"? The bits of visits that I've seen, Kate has certainly praised the work being done.

Anyway, I assume the survey is just a starting point, and will be followed by programs and opportunities that people can either support with their time and money or take advantage of themselves.
 
Does the typical charity visit include the Queen or whoever stepping up to the microphone and announcing "Hey everybody, give them money!"? The bits of visits that I've seen, Kate has certainly praised the work being done.

Yes, but IMO that gives the impression that everything is going along just fine. The people who are there may be doing a great job for the children that are in the program. But that glosses over e.g. that there are probably way more children that could be served if the program was more securely funded, or had more funding.

Anyway, I assume the survey is just a starting point, and will be followed by programs and opportunities that people can either support with their time and money or take advantage of themselves.

They can't take advantage of it if they don't have time or money to spare, or if the program doesn't have enough resources to serve all of its potential users.
 
Yes, but IMO that gives the impression that everything is going along just fine. The people who are there may be doing a great job for the children that are in the program. But that glosses over e.g. that there are probably way more children that could be served if the program was more securely funded, or had more funding.



They can't take advantage of it if they don't have time or money to spare, or if the program doesn't have enough resources to serve all of its potential users.

Getting a national conversation going about the importance of the early years will help get funding and resources. Governments do polls and watch the news. The more parents are engaged, the more people are talking, the more likely funding is to flow. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that this will provide information to the experts - they already have the answers. This is designed to shine a light on an area that needs help and funding and to give parents a voice so they can advocate with their vote.
 
It is easy for me to say it. But the reality is we all have choices. They have made theirs. Not one of us on this good earth gets everything we want from every situation we encounter.

You said that the Sussexes could have backpedaled and stayed 'in the fold' if they didn't like the exit package. By saying that, it doesn't sound to me as if you are very sympathetic to either Meghan or Harry. First of all, what I said which you haven't responded to is that in my view the Sussexes made a bold, courageous step for their freedom, and that in making that step they were prepared to give up everything if it came to down to such a standoff. We don't know anything about the actual months-long behind-the-scenes negotiations. Plus, a lot of the palace p.r. bs disseminated to the British media is confusing the issue because it paints the Sussexes as the sole villains.

You saying that we don't all get what we want in life means what exactly in reference to Meghan and Harry? You saying this sounds as if you believe Meghan and Harry were asking for too much, which in turn looks as if you are buying into the negative tabloid media narrative against the Sussexes.

It's entirely possible that Meghan & Harry have been overly optimistic and naive about some things. But their desire to try and continue serving the Queen while also working toward having privacy and independence, IMO, came from a good place of wanting to have more freedom of choice in how they help others, while still honoring the worthwhile royal tradition of service. It was not about 'having their cake and eating it too,' as has been characterized by the media. Harry himself, in comments he's made post-Sussexit, acknowledges that he hasn't always "gotten things right. But in this case, there was no other choice." That comment speaks volumes about what must have gone on behind-the-scenes which forced M&H into making their bold bid for freedom. Don't forget that a lot of the choices the Sussexes have made also involve their desire to raise their son out of the glare and restrictions of royal life.

Another part of this is, you are presupposing that the Sussexes are somehow upset about not getting everything they want. I do not think that's the case. They actually have received much of what they asked for. I think the Sussexes are upset about being willfully characterized as villains, when quite the opposite is more likely the case. It's not about being told they can't have use of the word, 'royal'! That's plain and simple a slap in the face by William and palace courtiers, which was allowed by Prince Charles and the Queen (likely as a way to try and bully Harry in the hopes he won't enjoy his freedom, and thus may wish to return to the royal fold). Personally, I don't think Harry will ever wish to return to the royal fold, unless some of the archaic and limiting strictures are changed for those who are not in direct line to the throne. BTW, Meghan and Harry are smart enough to realize when they are being slapped in the face, and by whom. That's what they are pushing back against in some of the pointed comments on their website.

Of course we don't all get what we want in life. And many of us never even try! Moreover, some people have a problem figuring out what they want in life. You seem to think that Meghan and Harry expect to get everything they want. I just think they are both ambitious about trying to have a good life, and very ambitious and hopeful about facing the challenges of trying to do good things in the world on a grand scale.

Unfortunately, it looks as if the media and some strong-arming from the palace is combining to try and make life outside the royal fold difficult for the Sussexes. But I don't think it's a wise strategy for the royal family and palace courtiers to attempt to block the Sussexes succeeding in their goals. We'll see what happens long term.
 
I think the survey is useless for people who are already aware of such things, but just from seeing it, I assumed the point was to get people who really haven’t thought about such things to actively participate in some participatory activity to get them started in thinking about it and that it was only a first step. I think it is useful to see what the British populace actually thinks about this before they move on to whatever message they want to promote with this initiative. Sure the sample size may be small (or not) but it gives them an idea of who they are dealing with.

I think the questions and choices to choose from are kind of dumb, but I also think they have to be.
 
I've got nothing but anecdotal evidence - I've seen comments and tweets from people saying they really had to think about the choices and talked about them with others. And hey, I've never posted about early childhood development before, so that's one, anyway. :COP:


Does the typical charity visit include the Queen or whoever stepping up to the microphone and announcing "Hey everybody, give them money!"? The bits of visits that I've seen, Kate has certainly praised the work being done.

Anyway, I assume the survey is just a starting point, and will be followed by programs and opportunities that people can either support with their time and money or take advantage of themselves.

I read something a few months ago that early childhood development is going to be Kate's main focus of her royal work in the coming years.
 
Death duties in the UK are only assessed when the total value is over 325,000 pounds & is at 40%. That wouldn't affect most people.

And the Royal Family specifically don't pay inheritance tax....they actually never had to pay any taxes at all but the Queen in the early 1990s started paying income and capital gains tax voluntarily, but specifically not inheritance tax.

To say inheritance tax won't affect most people is not true - the average house price in the UK is now around £315,000, assuming most people die with at least some other assets besides their main home, and most, if not all people will have some money in their pension (given auto-enrollment) it's very easy to see how a lot of people could have to pay tax from a person's estate.

If you consider the house price divide across the north and south, most people in the south will end up paying inheritance tax. The average house price in London is around £650,000, someone inheriting that house will need to pay £134,000 in tax in order to keep that house, or they will have to sell it or hope that 60% of the rest of the inheritance can cover that tax bill. Something the Royal Family do not have to do.
 
And the Royal Family specifically don't pay inheritance tax....they actually never had to pay any taxes at all but the Queen in the early 1990s started paying income and capital gains tax voluntarily, but specifically not inheritance tax.

To say inheritance tax won't affect most people is not true - the average house price in the UK is now around £315,000, assuming most people die with at least some other assets besides their main home, and most, if not all people will have some money in their pension (given auto-enrollment) it's very easy to see how a lot of people could have to pay tax from a person's estate.

If you consider the house price divide across the north and south, most people in the south will end up paying inheritance tax. The average house price in London is around £650,000, someone inheriting that house will need to pay £134,000 in tax in order to keep that house, or they will have to sell it or hope that 60% of the rest of the inheritance can cover that tax bill. Something the Royal Family do not have to do.

Estate (or inheritance tax) only taxes anything over 325,000 pounds so the 1st 325,000 is free & clear. So the UK does a better job of taxing the rich than the US for sure.
 
All this early childhood development stuff in the survey was stuff I had to take when I was getting my masters in education. As I said, there's nothing remotely groundbreaking about any of this.
 
The research and best practices around early childhood development (both through the education and public health fields) has been out there for a long time.

I can think of many better ways to promote a discussion of the best practices in a National level than this survey.

For example, A series of structured “town hall” discussions (on line or in person) featuring Kate would be much more prominent to raise awareness of such issues.

I can only think that someone wants to use the data for a purpose but, to me, that’s a double edged sword.

For example, question 2 if the majority of people answer that parents have the primary responsibility, the program could use that finding to advocate for more funds for awareness but the government can also use the funding to say we aren’t funding the program because people aren’t expecting public funds to be used for parenting supports.

Plus there is a whole other issue regarding sampling bias when you do a survey on the internet.

They aren’t really going to hear from the underprivileged who need the parenting supports the most because they probably can’t afford internet access.
 
All this early childhood development stuff in the survey was stuff I had to take when I was getting my masters in education. As I said, there's nothing remotely groundbreaking about any of this.

But this is reaching wide audience. Not all parents have education and background ... it is done to bring attention and I’m sure just the start of what she is doing.

Everyone nitpicking makes me role my eyes. We need another Royal scandal 🤣.
 
But this is reaching wide audience. Not all parents have education and background ... it is done to bring attention and I’m sure just the start of what she is doing.

Everyone nitpicking makes me role my eyes. We need another Royal scandal 🤣.

If parents want to research about early development, the material is all there and easily accessible. There are books, articles, journals. Answering a basic five question survey is not going to give them the answers. If Kate wants to help young mothers there are so many better uses of her time and resources. There are already organizations and charities in place that do research on early childhood development. And their methodology is much more rigorous than a 5 question survey.

Really I think this whole initiative is a big waste of time and honestly, some royal virtue signaling.
 
Bookies may suspend betting on chances of H & M pregnancy announcement:

Thanks for sharing attyfan. :lol:

:drama: Uh boy re the bookies' announcement. It all circles back to Meghan and Harry and to making money off of them. At essence, that's what a lot of this is about, especially re the media and the royal reporters. While at the same time, it's very important to scrutinize and to excoriate M&H for wanting to step back from the royal fold in order to live life on their own means and on their own terms.

Well, hold onto your seats and watch out for the pearl-clutching and tsk-tsking surrounding this latest news! :rofl: I could laugh for days. The British monarchy and the Royal Rota actually had a partial hold on this delightful songbird but let her get away after trying to suffocate her within that gilded cage. Tsk tsk indeed! :watch:


I can't wait! Show 'em what you're made of Megs. :rollin:

And hopefully up next: An American Vogue guest-editing gig for Meghan with this time, Meghan on the Cover! Yes!


ETA:
I agree they probably won't take him. I sure wouldn't travel with a baby right now.


 
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Bookies may suspend betting on chances of H & M pregnancy announcement:


The bookies did the same back at the end of 2019 for Meghan, Kate and Eugenie - suspended betting on the likelihood of one of them announcing a pregnancy and none did. They are always starting and suspending betting on all the royal ladies being pregnant at one time or another - nothing unique to Meghan. Let's be honest if Meghan and Harry are going to have another child it will probably happen sooner rather than later so I can see what there might be a flurry of bets being laid especially as they are both back in the UK at the moment.
 
^^ :lol: 'Early Years' Kate would surely love another baby. And she's an excellent mother. Bearing children really seems to make her happy and fulfilled. Kate absolutely looked the loveliest I've ever seen her when she was pregnant with Prince Louis. He may grow up to be her fave child. I think Kate looks healthier with a bit more weight on her bones than how she's been looking recently. Sad upshot, according to something Kate said while on an engagement: 'William doesn't want anymore children.'

... nothing unique to Meghan. Let's be honest if Meghan and Harry are going to have another child it will probably happen sooner rather than later so I can see what there might be a flurry of bets being laid especially as they are both back in the UK at the moment.

Of course, such betting is not unique to Meghan. The circling back to Meghan and Harry and to what they're up to and what's being speculated about them is what I'm talking about. Meghan marrying into the royal family is a big reason why the royalty thread is always on the front page these days. It's also a big reason why Kate can suddenly do no wrong and has so many Kate Stans. :D

Back in the sleepy royalty thread days of yore (ah those were the days), there was a lot more lighthearted parity regarding royal news tidbits among all the European royal houses. Something @Zemgirl probably remembers fondly with tears welling up in her eyes. :p


Pssst, Meghan and Harry will have another baby when it suits them, and not a moment sooner. We may not even hear about a pregnancy for many months after M&H learn the happy news -- the better to keep the hungry, nasty British tabloids at bay! Thank God that Meghan will NOT have to endure another pregnancy being slammed, ogled and disrespected in the gilded cage of the British royal family, presided over by the money-hungry British media.
 
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@Winnipeg a while back Harry said that he didn't intend to have more than 2 children because of environmental impact. He never said that he wouldn't welcome a second child. As far as I can remember, Meghan never made any statement about her preference.
 
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