Plane and Blackhawk helicopter crash in Washington DC

More info on the skaters' who died in the crash from Philadelphia and Washington, DC

www.instagram.com

NBC10 Philadelphia on Instagram: "Members of a Philadelphia-area skating club, two children from Delaware and a former University of Delaware Figure Skating coach are among the victims of Wednesday night’s deadly plane crash over Washington D.C. that

1,657 likes, 68 comments - nbcphiladelphia on January 30, 2025: "Members of a Philadelphia-area skating club, two children from Delaware and a former University of Delaware Figure Skating coach are among the victims of Wednesday night’s deadly plane crash over Washington D.C. that left 67 people...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

 
once_upon said:
I'm not sure what certifications are required - I certainly hope they have something.

Im pretty sure you don't jump off a transit bus to start just after you after you interview.

My nephew had to pass quite a few qualifications to be a TSA. And last I talked to him about his work, he said it's difficult to get a job. In my area I don't see an abundance of POC in the airports
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I don't doubt that. I remember my brother telling us about his job and thinking at the time that I certainly didn't have the spatial and math skills necessary to be an ATC. And the hours were certainly long.
 
Karen-W said:
I don't doubt that. I remember my brother telling us about his job and thinking at the time that I certainly didn't have the spatial and math skills necessary to be an ATC. And the hours were certainly long.
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Yep. Ty has to have a second TSA with him, for security and should anyone need to be patted down. Or carryon needs to be inspected
There are not enough agents. They work long hours and are short staffed. Often working 6 days/nights a week
 
Karen-W said:
Not sure why they would have been stressed if they were fully competent and qualified to hold their positions, especially since the Trump hiring freeze EO last week specifically excluded anyone working in a public safety role - ie, Air Traffic Controllers.
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The head of the FAA was competent and qualified - he was forced out. The members of the Aviation Security Advisory Committee were doing effective, important work - they were all eliminated from the committee. The head of the TSA was competent and qualified - he was fired. Who would feel their job was safe after these actions?

The Department of Transportation ordered employees to "identify and eliminate all orders, directives, rules, regulations, notices, guidance documents, funding agreements, programs, and policy statements [...], which reference or relate in any way to climate change, "greenhouse gas" emissions, racial equity, gender identity, "diversity, equity, and inclusion" goals, and environmental justice." Who could read that and not realize that even if they were not themselves fired, their agency and its employees were about to be run through a political buzz saw?

I'd sure as hell be stressed by what was going on.
 
Miezekatze said:
It feels like Trump is running a war against his country :scream: :scream: :scream:
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:(
rfisher said:
This. Today NPR reported there was a false claim being widely circulated that the pilot was transgender and that's why they crashed. And people believed it and reposted the lie. Now, that the crew's names have been released, the crazies will go after their families.
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I hope it doesn't turn into Sandy Hook.
 
rfisher said:
This. Today NPR reported there was a false claim being widely circulated that the pilot was transgender and that's why they crashed. And people believed it and reposted the lie. Now, that the crew's names have been released, the crazies will go after their families.
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Well, I saw that particular crazy theory being thrown around and when you bother to read down through the comments a little bit, the theory was debunked by others. That's not going to stop people from posting that kind of stupid stuff if they're bound and determined to believe it. The Army has stated they are not releasing the name of the third crew member, at the request of her family. THAT is going to drive the conspiracy theorists more than the original, debunked one that was circulating yesterday.

Not sure if we need a different/new thread, but I'm watching the news and it appears that a small plane crashed into Roosevelt Mall in NE Philadelphia.

ETA - it was a medical transport plane - two doctors, the patient, a family member and two pilots are dead.
 
Very interesting article from NYT. Even more interesting is the link within the article that lists numerous close calls involving various airlines.

www.nytimes.com

Clues From D.C. Plane Crash Suggest Multiple Failures in Aviation Safety

Clues emerging from the moments before an Army helicopter collided with a passenger jet suggest breakdowns in the system meant to help aircraft land safely at the busy Reagan National Airport.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Biden admin had requested money to hire more air traffic controllers but the article doesn’t say what happened to the request.)
 
Karen-W said:
Well, I saw that particular crazy theory being thrown around and when you bother to read down through the comments a little bit, the theory was debunked by others. That's not going to stop people from posting that kind of stupid stuff if they're bound and determined to believe it. The Army has stated they are not releasing the name of the third crew member, at the request of her family. THAT is going to drive the conspiracy theorists more than the original, debunked one that was circulating yesterday.
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Since when has debunking with facts ever worked on the MAGA cult? They will continue to scream it. They will continue to attack the pilot and her family. They will continue to blame the crash on the fact that a woman was anywhere near a flight deck.

I do not blame the family and they are not to blame for the crazies going crazier. The blame for that one lies squarely in the White House, and with people like you who defend him.
 
Karen-W said:
Well, I saw that particular crazy theory being thrown around and when you bother to read down through the comments a little bit, the theory was debunked by others. That's not going to stop people from posting that kind of stupid stuff if they're bound and determined to believe it. The Army has stated they are not releasing the name of the third crew member, at the request of her family. THAT is going to drive the conspiracy theorists more than the original, debunked one that was circulating yesterday.

Not sure if we need a different/new thread, but I'm watching the news and it appears that a small plane crashed into Roosevelt Mall in NE Philadelphia.

ETA - it was a medical transport plane - two doctors, the patient, a family member and two pilots are dead.
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Oh no. My poor cousin, who already was burned out of her apartment by a fire, lives near there. She was anxious enough already. Time to check in.
 
Karen-W said:
The rest of the discussion about this topic truly does belong in PI, but I'm going to ask for a little bit of sanity in this thread before people start devolving into the usual left-right political talking points on the subject.
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If you want sanity, how about stop trying to pretend that Trump was saying something reasonable when he said that the accident happened because of DEI. We all know he meant that the woman and POC in the helicopter couldn't possibly be competent because they were not white men.

Karen-W said:
Not sure why they would have been stressed if they were fully competent and qualified to hold their positions, especially since the Trump hiring freeze EO last week specifically excluded anyone working in a public safety role - ie, Air Traffic Controllers.
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I specifically remember when you figured out layoffs were coming at one of your jobs. That was not your attitude then. You knew, even though you were fully competent at your job, you knew you could be laid off and you were stressed.

Karen-W said:
But, in this thread I've seen people assert that previous administrations' DEI hiring policies did not result in hiring anyone who was not fully qualified and competent for the job.
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That isn't exactly what we said. We said DEI isn't about hiring an incompetent person over a competent one because the incompetent one fits some minority category.

Karen-W said:
Okay, I will accept that assertion. Everyone who works as an ATC is competent and qualified, they take their job seriously and rigorously and are exceptional employees.
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And even if it was, this statement does not follow. Of course, there are incompetent people at the FAA and at least some of them are ATCs. But they aren't incompetent because they were a DEI hire and there is just as much of a chance that the incompetent ones are white cis straight men as not.
 
I’ve never been able to tell where we are when it comes to safety in the air. If you look at airliner crashes our record is actually good. But when I hear about these near misses I wonder whether we are living on the razor’s edge or if we have been safe because we are in good hands with our pilots and controllers in the towers.
 
Cachoo said:
I’ve never been able to tell where we are when it comes to safety in the air. If you look at airliner crashes our record is actually good. But when I hear about these near misses I wonder whether we are living on the razor’s edge or if we have been safe because we are in good hands with our pilots and controllers in the towers.
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From what I have read so far, we have a pretty good system using a Swiss cheese model. There are holes in it. If something falls through the hole in the first layer, the second layer catches it, and so on.

Yet there have been lots of near misses because of too much traffic and no enough traffic controllers. The NYT article I posted has a link to another article within it. That article was an eye opener for me. It says that the traffic controllers, pilots, etc. Are highly trained people. Many pilots avoided collisions on ground. It sounded like too many planes trying to be on the runway may have created the situation. Shortage of traffic controllers is also a major issue. The pilots have filed complaints through proper channels.

Now I feel that we have been very lucky. This time the plane and the helicopter were not lucky. I hope something will be done to fix whatever is ailing our aviation system.
 
I could not copy the link to the article on our nbc tv station, but it shows a video shot by a retired pilot who had flown to the DC airport hundreds of times. The video is interesting because you see the whole path and the place where the collusion took place. I was able to to email it to a friend but could not post on Facebook. I couldn’t find a way to copy the link to post here.
He said it was very challenging because there was too much air traffic; this was an accident waiting to happen. :(
 
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Karen-W said:
What stress would they be under apart from the regular stress of their job? The logic does not follow. The argument is a misdirection from the real factors that contributed to the accident
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Here’s one stress: my local airport in San Carlos, California have a new contractor that wanted to gut their salaries. All the controllers threatened to quit and now they’re having to renegotiate because they need to have them. if you don’t think that’s stressful, I don’t know what to say.

www.sfgate.com

Bay Area airport narrowly avoids losing its air traffic controllers

The San Carlos airport escaped a near-shutdown of its air traffic towers after stalled contract negotiations between the controllers and a new FAA contractor.
www.sfgate.com www.sfgate.com
 
A NYT article today said that the plane pitched slightly upward immediately before the sound of the impact could be heard by the ATC. The crew could also be heard speaking. So it’s possible from this that the crew realized at absolutely the last second…. Horrible as this is, it struck me as even more horrible if they realized just before they were hit, as opposed to being hit without knowing. Just so so sad….
 
apnews.com

Officials say remains of 55 of 67 victims of midair collision have been recovered and identified

Authorities said Sunday they have recovered the remains of 55 of the 67 people killed in the deadliest U.S. air disaster since 2001. Washington, D.C.
apnews.com apnews.com
ARLINGTON, Va. (AP) — Authorities said Sunday they have recovered the remains of 55 of the 67 people killed in the deadliest U.S. air disaster since 2001.
Washington, D.C. Fire and EMS Chief John Donnelly said at a news conference that divers still need to find the bodies of 12 more victims and are committed to the dignified recovery of remains as they prepare to lift wreckage from the Potomac River as early as Monday morning.
“Reuniting those lost in this tragic incident is really what keeps us all going,” said Colonel Francis B. Pera of the Army Corps of Engineers. Portions of the aircraft will be loaded onto flatbed trucks and taken to a hangar for further investigation.
They spoke hours after families of the victims visited the crash site just outside Washington, D.C., walking along the banks of the Potomac River near Reagan National Airport to memorialize their loved ones.
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Unbearably sad, but beautifully written.
(gift article) https://wapo.st/3WLMB1L
The last time Andrew Ter spoke to his 12-year-old daughter Olivia was over WhatsApp. She was with her mom, playing with a century-old typewriter at the Wichita-Sedgwick County Historical Museum.
Olivia marveled at the fact that there was no backspace. Her mom marveled at her. Her daughter had just participated in the elite U.S. Figure Skating National Development Camp and was already nailing tricky moves like triple toe loops and triple salchow jumps.
 
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