This cnn article lists some of the victims. They say 14 have not yet been recovered.
Scroll down half a page to see the list.
Scroll down half a page to see the list.
Plane and Blackhawk helicopter crash in Washington DC
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I thought I had an account, or they wouldn’t be sending me those links everyday. Every article I have tried to read for a few months require a paid subscription, not just an account,
What are the rules for fed employees about pension/severance, etc.?
Do they get some kind of compensation if they resign (vs being fired)?
rfisher
Let the skating begin
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It depends on how long they've been a fed employee. Some may still have civil service retirement, but most hires after the mid 90s have social security and a 401 (of some sort) retirement plan.
Johnny_Fever
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Interesting. Even by Trump standards, it seemed weird to turn it into a blame game so quickly.
peibeck
Simply looking
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Why? Don't you remember his (in)famous "I take no responsibility!" quote from his first term?
Private Citizen
"PC." Pronouns: none/none
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Well prior to the crash, there were already class action lawsuits alleging reverse discrimination in FAA hiring practices. Here is an article, from long prior to the crash, from what I believe is a neutral aviation source that describes the lawsuit:
https://simpleflying.com/faa-air-traffic-controller-applicants-lawsuit/ (Anything further than this belongs in PI.)
The staffing issue in this case seems to be a supervisor who agreed to let an employee go home early (as reported by the NYTimes and other media). The job duties of the two ATCs were commonly combined after 21:30, but on this day, they were combined earlier when an employee left, with supervisor approval, for reasons not yet known.
https://simpleflying.com/faa-air-traffic-controller-applicants-lawsuit/ (Anything further than this belongs in PI.)
The staffing issue in this case seems to be a supervisor who agreed to let an employee go home early (as reported by the NYTimes and other media). The job duties of the two ATCs were commonly combined after 21:30, but on this day, they were combined earlier when an employee left, with supervisor approval, for reasons not yet known.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Can I ask if anyone really believes that whatever is going on at the highest levels of administration staffing, ie the FAA Director & the safety advisory committee I've seen referenced had any effect on what happened in the tower at DCA on Wednesday? Any impact of those high-level administrative changes certainly would NOT have already trickled down to front-line operations that quickly. The federal government is even slower than most corporate behemoths in that regard.
The rest of the discussion about this topic truly does belong in PI, but I'm going to ask for a little bit of sanity in this thread before people start devolving into the usual left-right political talking points on the subject.
The rest of the discussion about this topic truly does belong in PI, but I'm going to ask for a little bit of sanity in this thread before people start devolving into the usual left-right political talking points on the subject.
Johnny_Fever
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I frequent another message board. It has nothing to do with skating. Over there, someone had started a thread about the midair collision. On that message board everything, and I mean everything, turns into a left/right fight. The most vocal arguers are basically just 10 guys with no life. Their favorite pastime is going around and around in circles. Believe me, over here, it's mild by comparison. At least there's some objective discussion about possible causes.
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Barbara Manatee
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We don't yet know if flight control actions were in any way at fault. However, Trump and his advisors made it clear as soon as the election was over that they intended to gut federal agencies and put the screws on federal employees. I've seen several feds talk about being worried, angered, demoralized, etc. by emails and directives they've received from the new administration since the inauguration. Combine that general climate of uncertainty with the specific recent actions taken against FAA employees and culture, and I can imagine the people working in the tower that night felt even higher levels of stress and anxiety than usual. It could have contributed to mistakes.
Correction to my previous reply-
It seems the account expires after 15 months. They still had my name and password for my account but I had to use the link they emailed me to access the article.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Not sure why they would have been stressed if they were fully competent and qualified to hold their positions, especially since the Trump hiring freeze EO last week specifically excluded anyone working in a public safety role - ie, Air Traffic Controllers.
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Aside from the fact that it's pointless, given it doesn't actually mean anything?
Then it's wrong because it leads people into thinking and believing things that have no basis for belief.
I am and I think people need to stop leaping to conclusions about what happened here. We will find out.
Can we just stick to what is actually known and/or reported, please?
rfisher
Let the skating begin
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This. Today NPR reported there was a false claim being widely circulated that the pilot was transgender and that's why they crashed. And people believed it and reposted the lie. Now, that the crew's names have been released, the crazies will go after their families.
sk8pics
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I don’t think it’s surprising at all if fully competent employees are still experiencing stress as they watch what’s going on around them in various parts of government agencies. The ATCs have been working with insufficient numbers for quite a few years, so possibly many have had ongoing issues with stress.
When I was working and the PTB were working through the ranks of employees to figure out who to let go, I was stressed even though I had recently been promoted and was a fairly high rated employee.
Theatregirl1122
Needs a nap
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I am a highly qualified employee who was not in danger of being cut, but having 1/5 of the staff at my work place cut was incredibly stressful.
Johnny_Fever
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Were they terminated or did they quit?
kedrin
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Cut implies terminated.
once_upon
Do all the good. All the time.
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I think this is a statement that tells us that you don't know what an ATC does.
They have 100,000's people's safety during a single shift.
My husband flew a small plane in the 80's for pleasure. From a mid size airport with large passenger planes. The ATC's do a Tetris type of traffic flow - big planes, small planes, freight planes like Fed Ex.
After Reagan fired all them in the 80's we had to rebuild a workforce. Some of them are 60's and 70's. They have years of experience regardless of race, sexuality, gender.
It's certainly not the movie Airplane.
NYT article with some information on helicopter routes
www.nytimes.com
How the Plane and Helicopter Crash in Washington, D.C., Happened: Maps and Graphics
An American Airlines jet and a U.S. Army helicopter plunged into the Potomac River after a midair collision Wednesday night near Reagan National Airport outside Washington, D.C.
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I’m now up to three friends and family members who have retired since November: two in their early 60s and one 56. It’s a lot of institutional knowledge disappearing fast, but then if you think the government does little that is useful, you won’t care.
Aceon6
If my father had only stayed in Canada
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I’ve watched enough episodes of Air Disasters to know that things have the best chance of going sideways at the end of the day or at shift change. People lose focus, try to do paperwork and watch their screens at the same time, or let down their guard because it will be someone else’s job in 15 minutes. Being the last takeoff and landings before the sound restrictions start is one of those times.
Johnny_Fever
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Someone on YouTube suggested that it's also the jet copilot's responsibility to look for traffic. The Black Hawk would have approached him from the right, but maybe below his field of vision. The jet was descending and the helicopter was ascending. The helicopter crew may have been focused on a different jet altogether, thinking it was the one the controller had mentioned.
Mozart
I've got 99 problems but a colon ain't 1
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I have ti go see what mentour pilot says. He always has good accident explanations
OMG! The blame game seems to be working! Will we ever become a truly civilized society that actually cares about others?
Johnny_Fever
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The only thing the controller might have done differently is to make sure that he/she and the helicopter crew were talking about the same plane. Of course, at night, every plane looks the same.
Interesting.
Johnny_Fever
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I blame the internet. Now the crazies know they're not alone anymore.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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No, I fully understand the regular stresses of being an ATC (my youngest brother worked as an ATC in Oakland to put himself through college back in the late '90s). The other poster was implying that Trump's EOs would have caused additional stress. That is a position I challenge.
But, in this thread I've seen people assert that previous administrations' DEI hiring policies did not result in hiring anyone who was not fully qualified and competent for the job.
Okay, I will accept that assertion. Everyone who works as an ATC is competent and qualified, they take their job seriously and rigorously and are exceptional employees.
But, it is also being asserted that they were under stress because Trump was, through his EOs, going to eliminate DEI hiring policies. Except that their jobs were NOT in jeopardy in any way. Trump's hiring freeze EO last week specifically exempted any public safety positions. Read it here if you don't believe me - Page 2, section b.
So, these are perfectly competent and capable employees, fully qualified as anyone else for their positions, and not being targeted by the new administration for reduction or subject to any hiring freeze.
What stress would they be under apart from the regular stress of their job? The logic does not follow. The argument is a misdirection from the real factors that contributed to the accident.
If you want to argue that the ATC was under additional stress because the tower was understaffed, that's fair, but attempting to blame Trump for that understaffing fails on every count. His EO was not going to cause additional understaffing, nor was his attempt to eliminate DEI hiring policies. If anything, eliminating those policies would have allowed for a wider candidate pool and alleviated the understaffing at some point.
once_upon
Do all the good. All the time.
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I'm not sure what certifications are required - I certainly hope they have something.
Im pretty sure you don't jump off a transit bus to start just after you after you interview.
My nephew had to pass quite a few qualifications to be a TSA. And last I talked to him about his work, he said it's difficult to get a job. In my area I don't see an abundance of POC in the airports
Im pretty sure you don't jump off a transit bus to start just after you after you interview.
My nephew had to pass quite a few qualifications to be a TSA. And last I talked to him about his work, he said it's difficult to get a job. In my area I don't see an abundance of POC in the airports