Plane and Blackhawk helicopter crash in Washington DC

[Johnny_Fever]

A couple of retired Army guys were speculating at work yesterday that they were using NVGs. They said it would be easy to get disoriented and lose situational awareness.

Night vision goggles might make it harder to distinguish between city lights and aircraft navigation lights too.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

What's wrong with speculation, and what makes you think we're singling people out? I'm not after vindication. Don't project your own propensities upon others.

Why are you reacting as if once_upon was speaking to you personally?

 

[missing]

I assumed the DEI theory was because one of the pilots was a woman.

 

[DORISPULASKI]

Even a Fox host is saying Trump going off script about DEI and Democrats in the middle of his teleprompter speech was inserting a campaign rally in a time to be consoler in chief.

The video is linked in this article

Fox Host Gives Her Colleagues a DEI Wake-Up Call

Trump “had a campaign rally in the middle of what should have been a somber occasion,” Jessica Tarlov said.

www.thedailybeast.com

Furthermore she said:

“And these DEI policies were put in place in 2013,” she went on. “He [Trump] had every opportunity through his first administration to revoke them if he thought they were terrible, but he didn’t.”

In addition, as The Washington Post notes, Trump in 2019 started a diversity program for air traffic controllers—the same thing he complained about on Thursday.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

I assumed the DEI theory was because one of the pilots was a woman.

I can't vouch for this, but someone on YouTube wrote that the instructor pilot (in the right seat) was male, and the pilot in command (in the left seat, closest to the approaching jet) was female. Did Trump know this when he made his comments?

Google AI tells me this: In aviation, the "check out flight" responsibility primarily falls on the flight instructor.

 

[once_upon]

A little more info. Someone suggested a bigger Black Hawk crew would have been appropriate in those conditions, with lookouts responsible for rearward (or side?) vision. Night vision goggles inhibit depth perception, so you can't necessarily tell if you've exceeded 200 feet. Also, when the Black Hawk crew acknowledged that they saw the plane, they might have been talking about the wrong plane. There was another jet in their forward field of vision.

I did not say a larger crew was necessary or whatever. I did not speculate. I said we should wait.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

I did not say a larger crew was necessary or whatever. I did not speculate. I said we should wait.

So you want to shut this conversation down? Are you a moderator, or just self-appointed?

 

[BlueRidge]

Breaking news: "The Federal Aviation Administration decided to significantly restrict helicopter traffic in the immediate vicinity of Reagan National Airport, an official briefed on the matter told The Associated Press on Friday."

Thank god.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

Apparently one of the two men was African American, judging by a photo. I’m miserable thinking of the racism and misogyny going to be unleashed by the foul DEI crap.

Do you have a link? Does it say which seat he was in? I don't think he was the crew chief, who is ultimately responsible.

 

[MacMadame]

You cannot draw the conclusion you make regarding DEI while acknowledging in the same post that there was an inadequate staffing ratio. The inadequate staffing may have been due to a DEI policy that prevented the FAA from hiring enough qualified candidates.

Good grief. 1) DEI is not about hiring unqualified people over qualified ones, 2) Air traffic control is a field with high turnover and staffing has been an issue for decades, 3) instituted a hiring freeze so leaving controllers couldn't have been replaced no matter what color and sex they were.

 

[Mozart]

The american eagle flight crew:



✈ Jonathan Campos, 34 – Captain
✈ Samuel Lilley, 28 – First Officer
✈ Ian Epstein, 53 – Flight Attendant
✈ Danasia Elder – Flight Attendant

Flight attendant Ian Epstein was know for his funny in flight announcements

2.2M views · 2.7K comments | Ian in Action 😥 🤣 PSA Flight Attendant Ian Epstein wasn’t just a crew member—he was the heart of every flight he worked. Through his quick wit and... | By A Fly Guy's Cabin Crew Lounge | Facebook

Ian in Action 😥 🤣 PSA Flight Attendant Ian Epstein wasn’t just a crew member—he was the heart of every flight he worked. Through his quick wit and...

www.facebook.com

 

[PRlady]

Do you have a link? Does it say which seat he was in? I don't think he was the crew chief, who is ultimately responsible.

I saw a photo on MSN and I’m not sure what position he was in.

 

[Amy L]

There were also two white men on the helicopter. I saw a gfm for one family and the widow of another man posted on her social media to stop politicizing her husband's death. One of the airplane pilots was a white man as well. All of those other DEI hires were well supervised

 

[Theatregirl1122]

So you want to shut this conversation down? Are you a moderator, or just self-appointed?

I'm trying to understand how being nasty to someone who was just suggesting that it will take a while to understand what actually happened and that it will likely not be only one person is at all useful in this situation.

 

[missing]

I never know if the NY Times will allow people to read its articles, but in case it will:

Washington Crash Renews Concerns About Air Safety Lapses

Clues emerging from the moments before an Army helicopter collided with a passenger jet suggest breakdowns in the system meant to help aircraft land safely at the busy Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

 

[BlueRidge]

I never know if the NY Times will allow people to read its articles, but in case it will:

Washington Crash Renews Concerns About Air Safety Lapses

Clues emerging from the moments before an Army helicopter collided with a passenger jet suggest breakdowns in the system meant to help aircraft land safely at the busy Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

Here is a gifted link everyone should be able to access: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/31/...e_code=1.tU4.Snrq.DroiXOCcm40H&smid=url-share

 

[once_upon]

I'm trying to understand how being nasty to someone who was just suggesting that it will take a while to understand what actually happened and that it will likely not be only one person is at all useful in this situation.

It's ok, I thought this poster was long gone from here -since I've had him on ignore for maybe 3 or 4 years. I only clicked on the link because you responded and I was curious.

 

[Lanie]

The american eagle flight crew:



✈ Jonathan Campos, 34 – Captain
✈ Samuel Lilley, 28 – First Officer
✈ Ian Epstein, 53 – Flight Attendant
✈ Danasia Elder – Flight Attendant

Flight attendant Ian Epstein was know for his funny in flight announcements

2.2M views · 2.7K comments | Ian in Action 😥 🤣 PSA Flight Attendant Ian Epstein wasn’t just a crew member—he was the heart of every flight he worked. Through his quick wit and... | By A Fly Guy's Cabin Crew Lounge | Facebook

Ian in Action 😥 🤣 PSA Flight Attendant Ian Epstein wasn’t just a crew member—he was the heart of every flight he worked. Through his quick wit and...

www.facebook.com

We flew a few times with Ian. Mini has the same name, so they bonded over this. He was so fun and clearly loved his job.

 

[genevieve]

Apparently one of the two men was African American, judging by a photo. I’m miserable thinking of the racism and misogyny going to be unleashed by the foul DEI MAGA crap.

Fixed it for you

 

[Vash01]

2 new very clear videos of the accident on CNN. Very horrifying. https://www.cnn.com

I don’t see the videos. I see some photos and articles.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

I don’t see the videos. I see some photos and articles.

Try this one. The fact that the plane is stationary (head one shot), and the Black Hawk is moving left to right suggests to me that they struck at right angles to each other. The plane got broadsided. Of course, all it takes is for the tip of a rotor blade to hit something, and things start breaking apart.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Sparks]

I don’t see the videos. I see some photos and articles.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/video/american-airline-plane-crash-washington-exclusive-video-ldn-digvid

 

[sk8pics]

Every comment I have seen from someone who has piloted a Blackhawk cites this as the most plausible cause.

I think the real question is why they were flying at a higher than usual altitude. And for that we'll have to wait; hopefully the investigation will answer that question or pinpoint another root cause.

 

[Vash01]

Breaking news: "The Federal Aviation Administration decided to significantly restrict helicopter traffic in the immediate vicinity of Reagan National Airport, an official briefed on the matter told The Associated Press on Friday."

Thank god.

I read/saw last night on tv that the last three years airplane pilots were complaining about helicopters getting in their path. I am paraphrasing, but it sounds like there are a lot of helicopters in this area, and it has bothered some airline pilots because it makes their already challenging jobs even more difficult.

I also saw a comment by an expert that the helicopter had flown higher than it is allowed to.

We don’t know how/why of it. Just have to wait until NTSB comes to a conclusion.

One thing I am sure of is that when we heard about the accident, we thought of the People who were on board, or operating. We did not think of their race, gender, or anything else. We felt sorry for them as human beings.

However, someone (YKW) Assumed that those operating/serving were inferior, had mental/psychiatric problems, etc. blamed diversity. It is possible that a mistake by pilot/instructor/controller was involved, but we don’t know what really happened. Nobody knew anything at all right after the accident. At a time like this what was needed was consolation and not assumptions from a leader.

 

[Vash01]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/video/american-airline-plane-crash-washington-exclusive-video-ldn-digvid

Thanks got it.

 

[Desperado]

The more I’m reading about the situation, the more I see that it was a tragedy waiting to happen and the miracle is that vigilant and perhaps heroic behaviour of people avoid them for years.

It does nothing to ease the terrible pain families and friends are suffering.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

..............However, someone (YKW) Assumed that those operating/serving were inferior, had mental/psychiatric problems, etc. blamed diversity.............

In private, I'm not so sure he really believes that. He's just playing his game. It seems to be working. Look how much DEI dialog he's generated on this thread.

 

[Vash01]

I never know if the NY Times will allow people to read its articles, but in case it will:

Washington Crash Renews Concerns About Air Safety Lapses

Clues emerging from the moments before an Army helicopter collided with a passenger jet suggest breakdowns in the system meant to help aircraft land safely at the busy Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

Unless it’s a gifted article, we cannot read it.

After I discontinued my NYT subscription, I kept getting their daily dose of their frontlines but I can’t read them since I don’t have the subscription anymore. They make sweet offers almost daily but I don’t fall for them anymore. I even clicked on unsubscribe but I still get their link daily. I just can’t read anything beyond 3-4 lines.

If they allowed X number of free articles per month, May be some will be tempted to subscribe. Usually I get the news from cnn or WaPo (Going to unsubscribe them too).

However there is something new about this tragedy, I would like to know.

 

[MacMadame]

Unless it’s a gifted article, we cannot read it.

I can read this one. Sometimes they put articles out for the public. You might have to have an account (I still do) but you don't need a subscription (I don't).

 

[rfisher]

The inadequate staffing may or may not be associated with DEI. Inadequate staffing may be a result of someone calling in ill or a recent resignation without the appropriate approval process for new hire. Lack of time post a position. Lack of someone with the appropriate certifications required I mean we couldn't hire an RN who did not have the required license regardless of any DEI. Or it could have been an DEI issue. Until all data is studied it is inappropriate to jump there

It has been reported the pilot of the helicopter was flying too high per protocol - but until the analysis of all data, they cannot make a determination that was a contributing factor or THE reason

Actually, there is a reason there was no FAA director and that staffing issues are happening. Elon Musk fired off one of his SpaceX rockets before the election. It exploded and caused a scramble with all the flights in the vacinity to change flight plans to avoid debris. Pieces of it landed in Australia and New Zealand and caused property damage. The then director of the FAA, who should have 3 years left in his term, fined Musk over $600000 for this and other safety violations. Musk's response to the incident was nobody was killed so it didn't matter. He also started a campaign to get the director to resign because the FAA's safety rules interferred with his plan to go to Mars. So much so, the director resigned on the day of Trump's inaugration. He knew it was resign or be fired because Trump would fire whomever Musk wanted out. Several high level employees followed him. The director of the FAA, like the FBI, is designed to be an apolitical appointment of 5 years so it overlaps two presidents. But, like Chris Wray at the FBI, they knew what was going to happen if they didn't resign. Trump didn't bother to appoint a new director until yesterday. And that only after reporters asked Sean Duffy who was the acting director and he refused to answer. It wasn't Obama or Biden who sacrificed safety issues. It was Musk through Trump. But, Trump didn't want to answer questions about the fact there was no director over the agency in charge of air flight safety so he immediately tried to deflect blame onto the Democrats. Thats the default for any issue the administration does not want to take ownership or or anything that might cause reporters to ask questions

And until the recovery of the black box from the helicopter, everything is speculation about what they did or didn't do.