Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

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While it wouldn't be my preference for them, I do think that they could do a good Greased Lightening....especially Gabby.
 
alain06fr said:
Would you imagine Scott Moir or Luca Lanotte or Zach Donohue sewing the dress of their partners themselves to make sure it's properly done? Sorry but I don't!
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For what it's worth, I've actually seen Luca Lanotte sewing back the zipper of Anna Cappellini's outfit :lol: and it wasn't my imagination ;)

As soon as I hear a coach dismissing his or her responsibility to the skaters then it's clear to me he or she should immediately go back to a management school.
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Is it what MFD/PL and/or RH did ? Did I miss something in PyeongChang or is it just a generic and random exemple that doesn't specifically concern P/C team you're using ? I'm a bit confused here.
 
alain06fr said:
I never heard Gaby and Guillaume claiming they were not well prepared for Olys (previous season is another story) and BTW, you should never forget their involvement and their own work which contributed so much to this preparation. The rest of what you say here sounds like banalities without any interest. "Design your program to get the maximum" doesn't mean anything to me and I don't think this is how coaches bring up programs, hopefully... Same when you claim "You look at what gets 10 PCS"... really? Wow!


Obviously, you have no idea of what coaching or managing means and implies! Coaches ARE payed to bring their long experience hence they have to be responsible for checking EVERY details, especially in an Olympic season.


First, you have no clue whatsoever about how the top of this dress was tied and the worse is that you post fake news! Please be aware the top of the dress was fixed with one zip + a security clip + 6 hooks + 6 snaps. In addition to that, the top was sewed at each competition... Is that clear enough? And you have no clue about what happened at Olys, so...

Well, there are so many things you are not aware of.... What I can tell you - at least - is that problems with the dress appeared twice prior Olys: once during a practice at the Finlandia Trophy and once during a practice at Europeans hence it was anything but a bad luck story at Olys... Coaches were obviously perfectly aware of these problems and it was their job and their responsibility to take any appropriate action and make sure/control these actions are performed as needed to prevent from such issue to show up again, especially at Olys! It's for sure part of their SOW (scope of work)!

After this problem occurred, it was decided to sew the top of the dress systematically at each competition... and it was up to the coaches to make sure the top was sewed... and - moreover - sewed by the right person, I mean a competent person (!) to make sure the work would be done as required with 100% reliability...

And last but not least, after Olys, Guillaume decided to sew the dress himself! And I can tell you that a dress sewed by Guillaume has no chance to blow up in 1 second... Never ever! When it comes up to the point that Guillaume decides to sew the dress himself then I think there's something seriously wrong! Would you imagine Scott Moir or Luca Lanotte or Zach Donohue sewing the dress of their partners themselves to make sure it's properly done? Sorry but I don't!


Another fake story. Coaches are fully involved in a gold medal!! It's definitely the best way to promote themselves within the Figure Skating community to attract new skaters in their schools and increase their rates! Coaching is a business, you should definitely be aware about it... I have personally no problem coaches take benefit from any gold medal won by their skaters. It's actually a win/win configuration. Now, coaches must assume their responsibilities in ANY cases. They can't claim to be the best coaches whenever their skater get a gold medal and dismiss themselves from any responsibility in case of failure... It would be totally irresponsible and a complete nonsense.


And what about their coaches? Aren't they adults? Don't they put their long experience (20+ years!!) ahead to justify their rates and prevent from such things to happen? Of course they do. As soon as I hear a coach dismissing his or her responsibility to the skaters then it's clear to me he or she should immediately go back to a management school.
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First, of course coaches have a responsibility to make sure things go right. But the ultimate responsibility rests in the skaters themselves, because they are the ones that want the win the most. Yes, coaches want the gold too, but it’s nothing like how the athlete wants it. No one will ever look after your own interest as well as yourself, and that’s the point I’m trying to make.

If the dress was causing a problem starting back in Finlandia and then again at Europeans, why on earth didn’t Guillaume fix the dress or take over the sewing at that point itself? Nothing was stopping him, and he must have recognized the flawed design as he is a designer himself. Hindsight is always 20/20, but this is something I’ll never get over. (BTW, I thought MFD had said the Olympic top was different from the one at Finlandia and Europeans, but since you seem to know everything about PC, I’ll take your word that it was the same top for all of these competitions).
 
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The dress also had issues in a practice and warm up at Olympics so yeah it was their and their teams responsibility to solve it.
 
Anyway no way no Grease.
Can’t remember can they do movies? Ballets
I’m still waiting for le Jeune Homme.
 
cholla said:
Is it what MFD/PL and/or RH did ? Did I miss something in PyeongChang or is it just a generic and random exemple that doesn't specifically concern P/C team you're using ? I'm a bit confused here.
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I never heard that. I did read this interview with Gabi which seemed to suggest that she didn’t feel responsible for the dress malfunction, but maybe I misread the meaning: https://closeupculture.com/2018/02/...-olympic-silver-medalist-gabriella-papadakis/

I’m not trying to be overly mean or critical here. It’s a tough lesson to learn, and one that most of us learn the hard way, unfortunately!
 
Over the past few day's I've become a bit intrigued by the idea of P/C doing 'Sibella' from A Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder for the 2019-20 rhythm dance - it's never been skated to, it fits with the Waltz option, it's characterful, and it's got a narrative (the whole of Monty and Sibella's relationship is wrapped up in this song). Plus it's about the right length for the RD! They could skate wonderfully to it and also subvert the whole set of expectations that go with a waltz and a love song at the same time...that would have to be fun.
 
cholla said:
For what it's worth, I've actually seen Luca Lanotte sewing back the zipper of Anna Cappellini's outfit :lol: and it wasn't my imagination ;)
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someone also posted an instagram photo from hubbell's account of zack sewing her dress to her tights before the sd at some event last year, i don't remember now which. but her comment on the photo said that she needed him to sew it for her so that the panties of the costume didn't ride up on her during the dance. i grew up a ballet dancer and had to learn how to fix problems with my shoes and costumes in emergencies. sometimes it meant finding the costume mistress or the director to help me, sometimes it meant me grabbing a needle and thread myself to fix it. i imagine skaters learn these skills as a matter of course, too.
 
Icetigger said:
I disagree. I think ice dance does have strategic and tactical elements. I do understand the idea that there some sort of purely objectively functioning system out there assessing everything; and that IJS leads to and supports that notion, and that all one need focus on is getting one's own score as high as possible based on judge feedback. In reality though, I do think judges to some degree function in a comparative way, especially with regard to pcs. Beyond that, opponents in any competition do have weaknesses, both in terms of what they put out on the ice, and who they are psychologically, and it's very possible to approach the season in a way that exploits those weaknesses. It's also useful to analyse your opponents work in terms of what they do, in order to perhaps consider elements that are missing in your own. I also believe that a team can really benefit from knowing that they are the best (if they are the best); and that the sort of expression from a coach which would communicate that is compromised in a conflict of interest situation.

.
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Maybe you can give an example of how you design programs to exploit an opponent’s weakness? Bc I’m not seeing how that would work unless your rival has very clear weaknesses that wouldn’t put them on par with you in the first place. Otherwise, it would depend on knowing what the judges preferences are in advance, which is also tricky as preferences often shift at the most unexpected times.
 
Twilight1 said:
It makes me think that some people wanted preferential treatment for P&C for it to be "fair" to them.

And if it was because the coaching team was politically correct in media... how is that preferential?
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Judges do give dancers preferential treatment, even though I think that the judging of ice dance has improved as the result of OMG.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself in the same thread (I've pointed this out too many times), but the judges did indicate that P/C had a more Olympic worthy program than V/M, which could be seen as preferential treatment. I expected this to happen as soon as I learned P/C and V/M program choices for the season. Although I understand that V/M were totally invested in ML and needed that investment in a program as motivation to come back, I thought they would look back on it in years to come and wonder what they were thinking (I did not expect them to win gold).

Judges gave V/M's Mahler preference in 2010, and D/W preference in 2014. Dance has that element of subjectivity given that there no jump issues and falls are rare.

How fair the judges preference is seen to be depends on one's view of the skaters and program in question.
 
skategal said:
While it wouldn't be my preference for them, I do think that they could do a good Greased Lightening....especially Gabby.
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Guillaume was a pretty good pre-Vegas Elvis at seventeen, and that's just a degree removed from Danny Zuko. They could pull it off for real, but I'm guessing their reaction to that suggestion would be the same as mine when someone said they should do Phantom of the Opera a few years ago: :rofl: and :scream:.
 
sap5 said:
First, of course coaches have a responsibility to make sure things go right. But the ultimate responsibility rests in the skaters themselves, because they are the ones that want the win the most. Yes, coaches want the gold too, but it’s nothing like how the athlete wants it. No one will ever look after your own interest as well as yourself, and that’s the point I’m trying to make.
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The ultimate responsibility comes down to the coaches, always and, once again, this is part of their job description and among the multiple justifications for their wages.

sap5 said:
If the dress was causing a problem starting back in Finlandia and then again at Europeans, why on earth didn’t Guillaume fix the dress or take over the sewing at that point itself?
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Once again, if a skater has to come down to that point then I wonder what the army of coaches around him/her is payed for. When they are in competition, skaters have to focus 100% on the competition, they get the maximum stress, they should never been distracted by sewing a dress or any other tasks which have to be handled, checked and controlled by their coaches.

sap5 said:
Nothing was stopping him, and he must have recognized the flawed design as he is a designer himself.
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I’m sorry but you talk about things you have no clue about once again. You don't know whatsoever what a fashion designer does and the involvement of Guillaume in that part but you don’t hesitate to accuse him of stuff which is not under his responsibility, especially at Olys!

sap5 said:
Hindsight is always 20/20, but this is something I’ll never get over. (BTW, I thought MFD had said the Olympic top was different from the one at Finlandia and Europeans, but since you seem to know everything about PC, I’ll take your word that it was the same top for all of these competitions).
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Did I say all tops were the same? And... Well, I can't believe it... Should I understand you didn’t even watch these competitions?

BTW, what I say about coaches is definitely not specific to PL, MFD or Gadbois. It's a general statement which applies to any coach and team management basics.
 
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alain06fr said:
The ultimate responsibility comes down to the coaches, always and, once again, this is part of their job description and among the multiple justification for their wages.
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Yes, it falls in to the same category as managing "conflict of interest" appropriately. It's to do with professionalism, ethics and doing the job the best you can without compromise.

And if there is sufficient breach of trust (another employment term) such that you need to be micromanaging them in the performance of their duties, especially at a key time, it's time to let them go.
 
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IloveFS said:
I happen to be heterosexual and still like Grease for a short or free program.. Just saying....
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It's not a matter of whether they could do it, it's a matter of who they are as skaters. I doubt we'll ever see a SD or FD where they play characters (I could be wrong but that's not likely - well maybe when it's time for the Musical SD!).
Plus Grease has been done a lot already.. I could see an exhibition for fun, but really I just can't picture them choosing Grease.
 
I do think Gadbois teams were mostly fair to the 2 top teams (until proof of the contrary).

That doesn't mean that it was the ideal coaching situation and they should stay or have stayed in Gadbois. When you are competing against V/M, with the full power of B2Ten and their fame, in their home country, what is better ? To train with them or train elsewhere, with coaches that are not fair but 100% behind you ?

Hagenauer and their theatre teacher, as well as their mind coach maybe played that role.

I'm seriously asking that question, both have pros and cons. I believe P/C said in interviews that the pros vastly outbalance the cons before, but I do not know if they still share that opinion. In the interview that was posted here a few days ago they seem to have had terrible two years competing against V/M, I wasn't expecting such an unsure tone (the one where Guillaume asks himself if they should have done the 2017 fd program).

And when asked about the situation, MFD and PL seemed like they were near a stress breakdown, so I wasn't ideal for them as well.

If V/M are not retiring I think they should leave Gadbois to its 4-Olympics dancer-coaches Canadian love story and train elsewhere. But of course that'll be a risky move as well.
 
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I do believe the costumes are the da
allezfred said:
The idea that they would leave Montreal for where exactly? Sheesh some ubers really do have too much time on their hands. The clasp on her dress came undone, they lost the Olympics. Build a fcucking bridge and get over it. :p
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Never thought I would agree with you...but I do.
I wish they would put all of this behind them and develop to their full potential.
 
cholla said:
This is actually not new ;) It is the interview made by AFP on 3/29 that has simply been reprinted in "l'Alsace".
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And still we have multiple pages of speculation whether their coaches are good enough for them... Maybe the conversation will finally move on. If P/C feel they have a good relationship with their coaches, I don't see a need for an endless debate on the matter.
 
I believe some animations could be considered as musicals being a story told with the help of songs. So for the 2019/2020 RD, we have the perfect theme for them. They'll pitch it as follows:"after two years, we have finally overcome our trauma and wanted the world to know": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HFhJ5FP_LY mixed with this very broadway like song where Guillaume can act as the very annoying snowman Olaf https://youtu.be/UFatVn1hP3o?t=24s
 
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