Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

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barbarafan said:
You obviously could not be invested in 2 teams. It is not in your makeup. MFD and Patrice can and have done it. While you are rubbing your hands together and making up conspiracy theories they are constantly investing all their time, blood, sweat and tears into turning all their teams into the best that they can be.Romain is an amazing coach and he came and stayed as he felt he was able to produce more effectively in this positive hardworking atmosphere as opposed to what he left. Negativity is the last thing artists need. I hope Gabby and Guillaume listen to their hearts and their brains as they continue on this journey and that they do not listen to Didier, the media and the conspiracy theorists out there.
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You're right I could not be 100 percent invested in two teams. At least not in terms of them both achieving the same goal where one's achievement would exclude the other achieving that goal. If I was with one team, I would be watching the dances and programmes of the opposing team and breaking down everything about them with them. I would also want to be on the side of the team that I think is best, and who I think would deserve to win. I would also be happy just on that one team's side, because I'd believe in them fully.

Regarding negativity, all artists have it, because all human beings do. You do too. Best to embrace it and use it intelligently in my opinion. If you don't like and and get annoyed by negative expression, best to probably block me, because I express myself freely.
 
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Icetigger said:
You're right I could not be 100 percent invested in two teams. At least not in terms of them both achieving the same goal where one's achievement would exclude the other achieving that goal. If I was with one team, I would be watching the dances and programmes of the opposing team and breaking down everything about them with them. I would also want to be on the side of the team that I think is best, and who I think would deserve to win. I would also be happy just on that one team's side, because I'd believe in them fully.
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All this says is that you don't understand ice dance. You're focused on all the wrong things.

Watching the dances/programmes of opposing teams is pointless -- all you need to know is that the judges consider them in the same league as your own.

The focus should be on improving your team to the best of *its* ability. You look at what gets level 4, +3 GOE, and design your program to get the maximum. You look at what gets 10s for PCS, and design your program for the maximum. Then you make sure that your team is mentally and physically prepared to execute to the maximum. That's it. PC have strengths and weaknesses that are different from VM, HD. You address each of those individually. It doesn't matter what each team is doing relative to the other.

PC was prepared at this Olympics to the max. They say themselves that it was the dress malfunction that stopped them. That's an error I lay on PC themselves. They aren't children. They've skated for 12-13 years. If a piece of equipment is failing them, then they should take responsibility and ask their dress designer, coaches, etc, for a fix. How they could have thought that a top that heavily stoned could only have two points of support is a mystery. Ultimately, they are the ones competing for a gold. Not their dress designer. Not their coaches. If anything was learned from this experience, I hope it is that PC now know that they must be responsible for themselves. This is what all adults ultimately learn.
 
sap5 said:
All this says is that you don't understand ice dance. You're focused on all the wrong things.

Watching the dances/programmes of opposing teams is pointless -- all you need to know is that the judges consider them in the same league as your own.

The focus should be on improving your team to the best of *its* ability. You look at what gets level 4, +3 GOE, and design your program to get the maximum. You look at what gets 10s for PCS, and design your program for the maximum. Then you make sure that your team is mentally and physically prepared to execute to the maximum. That's it. PC have strengths and weaknesses that are different from VM, HD. You address each of those individually. It doesn't matter what each team is doing relative to the other.

PC was prepared at this Olympics to the max. They say themselves that it was the dress malfunction that stopped them. That's an error I lay on PC themselves. They aren't children. They've skated for 12-13 years. If a piece of equipment is failing them, then they should take responsibility and ask their dress designer, coaches, etc, for a fix. How they could have thought that a top that heavily stoned could only have two points of support is a mystery. Ultimately, they are the ones competing for a gold. Not their dress designer. Not their coaches. If anything was learned from this experience, I hope it is that PC now know that they must be responsible for themselves. This is what all adults ultimately learn.
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I disagree. I think ice dance does have strategic and tactical elements. I do understand the idea that there some sort of purely objectively functioning system out there assessing everything; and that IJS leads to and supports that notion, and that all one need focus on is getting one's own score as high as possible based on judge feedback. In reality though, I do think judges to some degree function in a comparative way, especially with regard to pcs. Beyond that, opponents in any competition do have weaknesses, both in terms of what they put out on the ice, and who they are psychologically, and it's very possible to approach the season in a way that exploits those weaknesses. It's also useful to analyse your opponents work in terms of what they do, in order to perhaps consider elements that are missing in your own. I also believe that a team can really benefit from knowing that they are the best (if they are the best); and that the sort of expression from a coach which would communicate that is compromised in a conflict of interest situation.

The style of coaching where you focus on each team individually regarding IJS is all one can do in a conflict of interest situation. Of course one should do exactly what you are detailing, but there is something beyond that.......

I am also not focused on the strategic/tactical side of things particularly, I just acknowledge that it exists, and that it becomes compromised in certain circumstances....

I hope that PC are responsible for themselves and that indeed is what they have learnt from the dress experience (although I think that was something they probably knew already)

I also hope Gadbois have learnt a lesson from this too. And specifically also, how to sew an emergency repair in one of their team's costumes. They are supposed to be the top ice dance school in the world at present. That between them they couldn't put in a place a suitable emergency repair to a costume at an olympics should be to their great embarrassment.
 
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sap5 said:
The focus should be on improving your team to the best of *its* ability. You look at what gets level 4, +3 GOE, and design your program to get the maximum. You look at what gets 10s for PCS, and design your program for the maximum.
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I never heard Gaby and Guillaume claiming they were not well prepared for Olys (previous season is another story) and BTW, you should never forget their involvement and their own work which contributed so much to this preparation. The rest of what you say here sounds like banalities without any interest. "Design your program to get the maximum" doesn't mean anything to me and I don't think this is how coaches bring up programs, hopefully... Same when you claim "You look at what gets 10 PCS"... really? Wow!

sap5 said:
PC was prepared at this Olympics to the max. They say themselves that it was the dress malfunction that stopped them. That's an error I lay on PC themselves. They aren't children. They've skated for 12-13 years.
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Obviously, you have no idea of what coaching or managing means and implies! Coaches ARE payed to bring their long experience hence they have to be responsible for checking EVERY details, especially in an Olympic season.

sap5 said:
If a piece of equipment is failing them, then they should take responsibility and ask their dress designer, coaches, etc, for a fix. How they could have thought that a top that heavily stoned could only have two points of support is a mystery.
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First, you have no clue whatsoever about how the top of this dress was tied and the worse is that you post fake news! Please be aware the top of the dress was fixed with one zip + a security clip + 6 hooks + 6 snaps. In addition to that, the top was sewed at each competition... Is that clear enough? And you have no clue about what happened at Olys, so...

Well, there are so many things you are not aware of.... What I can tell you - at least - is that problems with the dress appeared twice prior Olys: once during a practice at the Finlandia Trophy and once during a practice at Europeans hence it was anything but a bad luck story at Olys... Coaches were obviously perfectly aware of these problems and it was their job and their responsibility to take any appropriate action and make sure/control these actions are performed as needed to prevent from such issue to show up again, especially at Olys! It's for sure part of their SOW (scope of work)!

After this problem occurred, it was decided to sew the top of the dress systematically at each competition... and it was up to the coaches to make sure the top was sewed... and - moreover - sewed by the right person, I mean a competent person (!) to make sure the work would be done as required with 100% reliability...

And last but not least, after Olys, Guillaume decided to sew the dress himself! And I can tell you that a dress sewed by Guillaume has no chance to blow up in 1 second... Never ever! When it comes up to the point that Guillaume decides to sew the dress himself then I think there's something seriously wrong! Would you imagine Scott Moir or Luca Lanotte or Zach Donohue sewing the dress of their partners themselves to make sure it's properly done? Sorry but I don't!

sap5 said:
Ultimately, they are the ones competing for a gold. Not their dress designer. Not their coaches.
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Another fake story. Coaches are fully involved in a gold medal!! It's definitely the best way to promote themselves within the Figure Skating community to attract new skaters in their schools and increase their rates! Coaching is a business, you should definitely be aware about it... I have personally no problem coaches take benefit from any gold medal won by their skaters. It's actually a win/win configuration. Now, coaches must assume their responsibilities in ANY cases. They can't claim to be the best coaches whenever their skater get a gold medal and dismiss themselves from any responsibility in case of failure... It would be totally irresponsible and a complete nonsense.

sap5 said:
If anything was learned from this experience, I hope it is that PC now know that they must be responsible for themselves. This is what all adults ultimately learn.
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And what about their coaches? Aren't they adults? Don't they put their long experience (20+ years!!) ahead to justify their rates and prevent from such things to happen? Of course they do. As soon as I hear a coach dismissing his or her responsibility to the skaters then it's clear to me he or she should immediately go back to a management school.
 
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Miloune said:
This vid is geoblocked to me... Are you talking about her arms doing a round?? Because that's the choreography..
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No it was when she went up into their final lift and bobbled slightly on getting into position.

Try this... I tried steamable but am still new to mp4 file share.

https://youtubemp4.to/video/OUdsMUloNDdRZEEvMTUyMjg4MzMwOA==

I have watched this and what she was able to do was amazing. More than just kudos to her. If the link doesn't work try a non geoblocked video of their Oly short and it is at around the 2:40 min mark.
 
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Twilight1 said:
No it was when she went up into their final lift and bobbled slightly on getting into position.

Try this... I tried steamable but am still new to mp4 file share.

https://youtubemp4.to/video/OUdsMUloNDdRZEEvMTUyMjg4MzMwOA==

I have watched this and what she was able to do was amazing. More than just kudos to her. If the link doesn't work try a non geoblocked video of their Oly short and it is at around the 2:40 min mark.
Click to expand...

Not working either... Oh well, what is done is done anyway! :)
 
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