Pairs Discussion Thread 2021-22

[Sylvia]

Which competitions DO count for ISU PB/SB??

In addition to the competitions listed above by @Andrea82, Junior Worlds (also an ISU Championship) & the ISU World Team Trophy (held every 2 years).

 

[museksk8r]

Riku MIURA/Ryuichi KIHARA of Japan are currently leading in the SP at the Autumn Classic International with a 72.32, beating their previous personal best SP of 65.82 by 6.5 points. Good for them; they must be thrilled!

They just beat Vanessa James and Eric Radford by 4.03 points to win the SP!! WOW!!! Spectacular!!!

Riku Miura / Ryuichi Kihara Autumn Classic International 2021 SP

youtu.be

 

[Karen-W]

Riku MIURA/Ryuichi KIHARA of Japan are currently leading in the SP at the Autumn Classic International with a 72.32, beating their previous personal best SP of 65.82 by 6.5 points. Good for them; they must be thrilled!

They just beat Vanessa James and Eric Radford by 4.03 points to win the SP!! WOW!!! Spectacular!!!

Should have been a much bigger lead. James/Radford were overscored.

 

[haribobo]

Pairs scores of Autumn Classic vs. Lombardia vs. John Nicks

Knierim/Frazier 76
Miura/Kihara 72
Della Monica/Guarise 72
James/Radford 68
Calalang/Johnson 67
Liu/O'Shea 66
Lu/Mitrofanov 66
Barquero/Zandron 65
Pepeleva/Pleshkov 62
Ghilardi/Ambrosini 61
Chan/Howe 59
Cain/Leduc 59
Stellato/Deschamps 57
Conti/Macii 57
McBeath/Bartholomay 56
Kops/Krasnopolski 55
Pfund/Santillan 53
Finster/Silecky 52
Matte/Ferland 51
Hamon/Strekalin 51

 

[Colonel Green]

As I remarked in the competition thread, I increasingly feel like side-by-side spins are an element that should be dropped from the short program and would anyone miss them? Does anyone miss them in the free? They're one of those elements where the odds of teams flubbing them a bit is high, but unlike a lot of those other elements I seldom get much of a thrill from seeing them done well.

 

[Wyliefan]

I really don't see them getting rid of spins.

 

[museksk8r]

Should have been a much bigger lead. James/Radford were overscored.

Wow! You are so right!! James and Radford definitely received some generous home cooked scoring. That was a hard, jarring fall she took on the 2Salchow. Eric’s upright spin in the SBS spins lost centering and proper position. Their program was not as complex or rich in transitions as the Japanese either. Plus, they were slow, low energy and out of sync in their choreography. Disappointing to see that effort rewarded with 68+.

Vanessa James / Eric Radford Autumn Classic International 2021 SP

youtu.be

 

[Colonel Green]

I really don't see them getting rid of spins.

I’m not saying they will; indeed, I’m quite sure they won’t. It’s just an opinion I’ve been forming over the last few years, after seeing so many bad SBS spins and so few that really impress.

 

[Peepsquick]

Should have been a much bigger lead. James/Radford were overscored.

On top of it, I think that James/Radford's music is in the way ... it doesn't "carry" them at all ... It's like skating through molasses.

 

[Vash01]

As I remarked in the competition thread, I increasingly feel like side-by-side spins are an element that should be dropped from the short program and would anyone miss them? Does anyone miss them in the free? They're one of those elements where the odds of teams flubbing them a bit is high, but unlike a lot of those other elements I seldom get much of a thrill from seeing them done well.

I have seen a few pairs miss the sbs spins- mostly on unison but on rare occasions much worse.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

As I remarked in the competition thread, I increasingly feel like side-by-side spins are an element that should be dropped from the short program and would anyone miss them? Does anyone miss them in the free? They're one of those elements where the odds of teams flubbing them a bit is high, but unlike a lot of those other elements I seldom get much of a thrill from seeing them done well.

Get rid of choreography sequence. They’re very unmemorable. Keep spins

 

[Karen-W]

Well, after this morning's free skate at JGP Krasnoyarsk, we have another team firmly placing themselves in contention for one of the three Olympic spots! Those junior scores from Safina/Berulava and Golubeva/Giotopoulous Moore are pretty impressive since they have one less element in the FS than senior teams. It appears that there is a firm separation between the top four teams and the rest of the field.

Barquero/Zandron ESP 184.94 Lombardia
Safina/Berulava GEO 168.26 JGP Kosice
Kops/Krasnopolski ISR 165.85 John Nicks Pairs Challenge
Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore AUS 158.68 JGP Krasnoyarsk
Petranovic/Souza Kordeiru CRO (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 153.99 2019 Worlds
Jones/Boyadji GBR (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 153.70 2019 Worlds
Hamon/Strekalin FRA 152.20 Lombardia
Wang/Huang CHN (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 152.10 2020 Jr Worlds
Crafoord/Crafoord SWE 148.59 John Nicks Pairs Challenge
Lukashevich/Stepanov BLR (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 145.55 2021 Worlds
Holichenko/Darenskyi UKR (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 136.90 2021 Ukrainian Nationals
Danilova/Tsiba NED 133.87 Lombardia

Hernik/Wozniak POL (team debut @Nebelhorn)

 

[clairecloutier]

I want more SBS spins, not less. (As in, I want them back in the free skate, and the free skate to be back to its previous length.) And ix-nay on dropping the step sequence too.

 

[Karen-W]

I want more SBS spins, not less. (As in, I want them back in the free skate, and the free skate to be back to its previous length.) And ix-nay on dropping the step sequence too.

I want teams to put some effort into really nice SBS spins, with better unison and closer together. The only way that happens is by increasing their BV since, clearly, teams won't put effort into practicing them unless they're worth more.

 

[clairecloutier]

I see no reason to suspect that teams aren’t already practicing and putting effort into their SBS spins. It would be foolish if they weren’t. It’s nearly a 5-pt element if done well. Who doesn’t need those 4-5 points?

 

[barbarafan]

Riku MIURA/Ryuichi KIHARA of Japan are currently leading in the SP at the Autumn Classic International with a 72.32, beating their previous personal best SP of 65.82 by 6.5 points. Good for them; they must be thrilled!

They just beat Vanessa James and Eric Radford by 4.03 points to win the SP!! WOW!!! Spectacular!!!

Riku Miura / Ryuichi Kihara Autumn Classic International 2021 SP

youtu.be

do we know why Chloe Chouinard/Livio did not do ACI

 

[Karen-W]

No explanation but Hamon/Strekalin have been replaced by Keriven/Pierre to represent France at Nebelhorn next week.

That really hurts France's chances at qualifying since their best this season was a good 12 points lower than H/S.

Barquero/Zandron ESP 184.94 Lombardia
Safina/Berulava GEO 168.26 JGP Kosice
Kops/Krasnopolski ISR 165.85 John Nicks Pairs Challenge
Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore AUS 158.68 JGP Krasnoyarsk
Petranovic/Souza Kordeiru CRO (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 153.99 2019 Worlds
Jones/Boyadji GBR (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 153.70 2019 Worlds
Wang/Huang CHN (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 152.10 2020 Jr Worlds
Crafoord/Crafoord SWE 148.59 John Nicks Pairs Challenge
Lukashevich/Stepanov BLR (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 145.55 2021 Worlds
Keriven/Pierre FRA 139.99 Lombardia
Holichenko/Darenskyi UKR (season debut @Nebelhorn) PB 136.90 2021 Ukrainian Nationals
Danilova/Tsiba NED 133.87 Lombardia

Hernik/Wozniak POL (team debut @Nebelhorn)

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I want more SBS spins, not less. (As in, I want them back in the free skate, and the free skate to be back to its previous length.) And ix-nay on dropping the step sequence too.

Not the step sequence the choreography sequence...It happens with such little fanfare that I never know that it happened.

 

[Belsornia]

No explanation but Hamon/Strekalin have been replaced by Keriven/Pierre to represent France at Nebelhorn next week.

That really hurts France's chances at qualifying since their best this season was a good 12 points lower than H/S.

Sigh. Hamon/Strekalin were a long shot for qualifying but Keriven/Pierre are a mere speck on the horizon. I hope H/S aren't injured but this decision is pretty incomprehensible if not.

French skating is just a bit depressing all round at the moment.

 

[Sk8mom123]

do we know why Chloe Chouinard/Livio did not do ACI

Choinard injured her knee prior to the short program at John Nicks in NYC last week. Disappointing for them.

 

[haribobo]

Pairs total scores of Autumn Classic vs. Lombardia vs. John Nicks

Knierim/Frazier 212
Miura/Kihara 204
Calalang/Johnson 196
Lu/Mitrofanov 195
Della Monica/Guarise 188
Barquero/Zandron 184
James/Radford 184
Liu/O'Shea 177
Pepeleva/Pleshkov 174
Ghilardi/Ambrosini 172
Chan/Howe 170
Cain/Leduc 170
Stellato/Deschamps 169
McBeath/Bartholomay 168
Kops/Krasnopolski 165
Hamon/Strekalin 152
Conti/Macii 150

 

[barbarafan]

Choinard injured her knee prior to the short program at John Nicks in NYC last week. Disappointing for them.

that is such a shame.

 

[Sylvia]

Re. JGP Final qualification, published in ISU Communication No. 2431 - Decisions of the Council (Oct. 4, 2021):

Pair
i) The 4 winners of each individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Event will qualify for the Final.
ii) Should there be fewer than 4 different individual winners out of the 4 individual ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Events because a Pair has won 2 JGP Events, all the different individual winners will qualify for the Final. In addition, the best 2nd placed Pairs(s), 3rd placed Pairs(s) and so forth by total score, who are not yet qualified as a winner, would be invited to the Final to reach the number of 4 entries.

So the 4 JGPF qualifiers in pairs are:
Ekaterina CHIKMAREVA / Matvei IANCHENKOV RUS - 189.11 JGP Krasnoyarsk (gold); 171.97 JGP Baltic Cup (gold)
Natalia KHABIBULLINA / Ilya KNYAZHUK RUS - 183.87 JGP Krasnoyarsk (silver); 188.84 JGP Linz (gold)
Anastasia MUKHORTOVA / Dmitry EVGENYEV RUS - 171.99 JGP Kosice (gold); 183.64 JGP Linz (silver)
Karina SAFINA / Luka BERULAVA GEO - 168.26 JGP Kosice (silver); 179.27 JGP Linz (bronze)

Next 4 highest JGP single event scores of the non-gold medalist teams:
170.46 Ekaterina PETUSHKOVA / Evgenii MALIKOV RUS - JGP Krasnoyarsk (bronze); 169.80 JGP Baltic Cup (silver)
168.13 Ekaterina STORUBLEVTCEVA / Artem GRITSAENKO RUS - JGP Krasnoyarsk (4th); 163.04 JGP Linz (4h)
162.14 Polina KOSTIUKOVICH / Aleksei BRIUKHANOV RUS - JGP Baltic Cup (bronze); 158.82 JGP Kosice (bronze)
160.16 Anastasia GOLUBEVA / Hektor GIOTOPOULOS MOORE AUS - JGP Linz (5th); 158.68 JGP Krasnoyarsk (5th)

 

[Sylvia]

It took a while, but the top 5 Senior teams at the inaugural John Nicks International Pairs Challenge (Senior B) last month finally received their ISU WS ranking points as of the Oct. 9th update - ISU Season's World Ranking 2021/2022 list (JGP Linz WS points from today have been added but the Finlandia Trophy Challenger Series WS points have not been included yet - probably because the competition officially ends tomorrow): https://results.isu.org/ws/wr2021-22/wrpairs.htm

As of Oct. 9th, Japan's Riku MIURA / Ryuichi KIHARA are listed at the top of the ISU Season Best total scores list after they won the CS Autumn Classic International (204.06): https://results.isu.org/isujsstat/sb2021-22/sbtspto.htm

The CS Finlandia Trophy pairs event concluded yesterday and these were the top 8 pairs:
1 Anastasia MISHINA / Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS 227.13 2 1
2 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 213.72 1 2
3 Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA 193.00 6 3
4 Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA 191.89 7 4
5 Vanessa JAMES / Eric RADFORD CAN 190.58 3 7
6 Laura BARQUERO / Marco ZANDRON ESP 189.99 4 5
7 Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT GER 188.37 5 6
8 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN 184.37 8 8

ISU World Standings ranking points are awarded as follows for ISU Challenger Series pairs competitions Nebelhorn, Autumn Classic & Finlandia so far (Senior B points are in parentheses - awarded to top 5 pairs at Cranberry Cup, John Nicks & Lombardia Trophy so far):
1st place 300 points (250)
2nd place 270 points (225)
3rd place 243 points (203)
4th place 219 points (182)
5th place 198 points (164)

JGP points: 1st-5th (same as Senior B), plus 6th-10th: 148 133 120 108 97

ETA:

This news originally was posted on Sept. 21 in the French news thead in GSD:

So, it looks like Cleo Hamon is taking a break from skating for the moment... https://www.instagram.com/p/CUFihV4oaAG/?utm_medium=copy_link

This explains why H/S were replaced by K/P for Nebelhorn. All the best wishes for her health and well-being. They might not be competitive with the best teams in the world but they certainly are voidy in the best possible French way!

 

[Panja]

As I remarked in the competition thread, I increasingly feel like side-by-side spins are an element that should be dropped from the short program and would anyone miss them? Does anyone miss them in the free? They're one of those elements where the odds of teams flubbing them a bit is high, but unlike a lot of those other elements I seldom get much of a thrill from seeing them done well.

Funnily, I really miss the SBS spins in the FS. I don't particularly like the Pair spins (looks too much like the Dance spin) but I do like the SBS ones as a typical pairs element. I do get a thrill out of them when they are done well and perfectly synchronised. I hope they never get dropped altogether!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Funnily, I really miss the SBS spins in the FS.

Me as well and I miss the spiral sequence in the ladies free program as well, let’s eliminate about 75 jumping passes in the free program and actually add in some skating content. Lol

 

[skylark]

Funnily, I really miss the SBS spins in the FS. I don't particularly like the Pair spins (looks too much like the Dance spin) but I do like the SBS ones as a typical pairs element. I do get a thrill out of them when they are done well and perfectly synchronised. I hope they never get dropped altogether!

I really like the SBS spins as well, and I also miss them ... I think it may have been @clairecloutier who said somewhere that when done well, they can express the music. And overall, losing 30 seconds of the FS is a loss to the artistry and to the viewers.

I've also thought that the SBS spins are kept for some of the same reasons the twizzles are kept in dance. They're difficult to do in unison, they're very impressive when they are done in good unison, and they're an easy element for general audience members to identify. Something to hang onto when a person is at sea, wondering why scoring was done a certain way.

 

[Vash01]

Funnily, I really miss the SBS spins in the FS. I don't particularly like the Pair spins (looks too much like the Dance spin) but I do like the SBS ones as a typical pairs element. I do get a thrill out of them when they are done well and perfectly synchronised. I hope they never get dropped altogether!

Pairs had been doing those pairs spins for many years. Long ago (1980s and May be 1990s) those spins were not a part of ice dance. For example, watch FDs of top ice dancers from that era. If at all ice dancers had a spin, it had to be different (weaker, for lack of a better term on my part) from what pairs were doing.

For some reason in the 21st century they decided to allow ice dancers to do the spins done by pairs. So it is incorrect to say that pairs spin looks like ice dance. It is reverse. Pairs spin was already there. When I first saw ice dancers doing those spins I didn't particularly like it because I like differentiation between pairs and ice dance.

I like pairs sbs spins because unison is such an important part of pairs skating. I also like pairs spin, with its different positions. The best was M/D's pair Spin. I also liked B&S's and Meno/Sand's spin with one skater in the camel position.

 

[Sylvia]

Check out @clairecloutier's comprehensive 2021-22 season preview of PAIRS from Russia, China, Canada, USA, JPN's M/K & notable European teams!

Pairs Season Preview 2021

It’s hard to believe that another Olympic season is here already. Thanks to covid-19, the last four years have been unlike any other quad in figure skating. The sport saw the unprecedented cancella…

adivinesport.com

 

[trouble77]

M/D had the best spins? No comment.