Pairs Discussion Thread 2019-20: “Two skating as one”

[NAOTMAA]

There was a short period of time where multiple teams were trying/practicing quads and it looked like in a number of years quads would be a common occurrence. But it didn't last very long and they seem to have disappeared off the map as fast as they arrived.

 

[aka_gerbil]

The risk isn't worth the reward right now for pairs to try quad things.

It has to be frustrating for these teams who do have the skill to pursue the quad twists and throws. It makes it pretty much impossible to try to push pairs forward technically at a time when there is so much talk about how the quads are pushing singles skating forward right now.

Yes, these elements are risky. That said, the pairs teams who would be attempting them tend to be made up of full-grown adults who are capable of understanding the risks. Meanwhile, there are young people who haven't gone through puberty yet and who still have children's bodies doing quads and who knows what the long-term risks of that are going to be.

 

[Orm Irian]

Yes, these elements are risky. That said, the pairs teams who would be attempting them tend to be made up of full-grown adults who are capable of understanding the risks.

And of course, one consequence of those adults understanding those risks is that they may make the fully rational and considered choice not to take them. They may decide that they value other things more, such as clean programs, or improved components or lifts, or richer choreography, or fewer concussions and ankle injuries (and therefore longer careers), or not needing hip/shoulder replacements before the age of forty, or any number of other things.

It's their bodies and brains on the line, and therefore their choice. What viewers might want to see or what the scoring system might prioritise matters not one whit in comparison to that.

 

[aka_gerbil]

And of course, one consequence of those adults understanding those risks is that they may make the fully rational and considered choice not to take them. They may decide that they value other things more, such as clean programs, or improved components or lifts, or richer choreography, or fewer concussions and ankle injuries (and therefore longer careers), or not needing hip/shoulder replacements before the age of forty, or any number of other things.

It's their bodies and brains on the line, and therefore their choice. What viewers might want to see or what the scoring system might prioritise matters not one whit in comparison to that.

Oh, I agree with what you said. I would guess thar most teams probably wouldn’t choose to take the risk for the reasons you laid out. There certainly weren’t many before the changes in scoring. That said, the way things are now, the ISU has more or less made the call about trying quads, not the individual teams.

 

[chantilly]

I think it’s a bit different too with pairs and to some extent dance over singles.
It’s a bit of an over simplification but I remember Kurt Browning saying once with falls that in singles “ we get injured” and in pairs and dance “they get hurt “
Being lifted and thrown by another human is inherently more risky then jumping.

Having said that I do think that I’d prefer that the sport continue to move forward technically and it be rewarded.

 

[Sylvia]

Current top 25 on ISU SB total scores list after GP Rostelecom Cup/CS Warsaw Cup: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2019-20/sbtspto.htm

1 Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII RUS ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2019 16/11/2019 229.48 S
2 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN ISU GP SHISEIDO Cup of China 2019 09/11/2019 228.37 S
3 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2019 16/11/2019 216.77 S
4 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2019 27/09/2019 210.35 S
5 Anastasia MISHINA / Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2019 12/10/2019 210.18 S
6 Daria PAVLIUCHENKO / Denis KHODYKIN RUS ISU GP Internationaux de France 2019 02/11/2019 206.56 S
7 Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA ISU CS U.S. International Figure Skating Classic 2019 20/09/2019 205.58 S
8 Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM USA ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2019 27/09/2019 202.41 S
9 Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN ISU GP Skate America 2019 19/10/2019 200.89 S
10 Haven DENNEY / Brandon FRAZIER USA ISU GP Internationaux de France 2019 02/11/2019 199.40 S
11 Alisa EFIMOVA / Alexander KOROVIN RUS ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2019 12/10/2019 194.28 S
12 Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Charlie BILODEAU CAN ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2019 12/10/2019 193.58 S
13 Apollinariia PANFILOVA / Dmitry RYLOV RUS ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2019 20/09/2019 192.73 J
14 Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA ISU CS Warsaw Cup 2019 16/11/2019 191.46 S
15 Alina PEPELEVA / Roman PLESHKOV RUS ISU CS Warsaw Cup 2019 16/11/2019 188.79 S
16 Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT GER ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2019 16/11/2019 186.16 S
17 Kseniia AKHANTEVA / Valerii KOLESOV RUS ISU JGP Chelyabinsk 2019 13/09/2019 185.05 J
18 Tae Ok RYOM / Ju Sik KIM PRK ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2019 27/09/2019 183.02 S
19 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA ISU GP SHISEIDO Cup of China 2019 09/11/2019 182.88 S
20 Feiyao TANG / Yongchao YANG CHN ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2019 27/09/2019 182.76 S
21 Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER AUT ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2019 16/11/2019 182.02 S
22 Iuliia ARTEMEVA / Mikhail NAZARYCHEV RUS ISU JGP Croatia Cup 2019 27/09/2019 179.83 J
23 Tarah KAYNE / Danny O'SHEA USA ISU GP SHISEIDO Cup of China 2019 09/11/2019 178.79 S
24 Diana MUKHAMETZIANOVA / Ilya MIRONOV RUS ISU JGP Croatia Cup 2019 27/09/2019 177.58 J
25 Ksenia STOLBOVA / Andrei NOVOSELOV RUS ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2019 16/11/2019 177.51 S

 

[aftershocks]

I was gonna ask the same question a week or two ago..

Three teams I know can do the quad twist... The Knierims, S&H and T&M, yet none of them have done it in a few years. Why?

Sometimes I wanna ask Alexa but I feel its not my business to pry. Or is it? tee-hee

Two things: they are cautious about putting it in again possibly due to her recovered, but life-threatening gastro-related illness, and it's not worth risking because there's no worthwhile reward...

 

[Mad for Skating]

I don't think Susie skated poorly. Unfortunately, her partner failed in backing up her fierce efforts to hold their fp together. For a minute there at the end, I thought we were going to get one of Stol Queen's patented glares. She thought about it, but then gave poor Novo 'manservant' a break and tried to comfort him in his agony and extreme disappointment. What is up with Stol Queen seemingly not wearing any makeup though? She looks exhausted. This huge effort to jump-start another partnership is putting her through a lot, especially with having had to nurse injuries too.

Why didn't Susie and Alexei Rogonov give it a try-out? Is Rogonov not tall enough, or were the logistics and timing not in the cards for them to hook-up? On paper, Rogonov is surely a more charismatic and talented pairs guy than Novo.

You’re right - she skated very well, with only one real mistake. I think she’s being more understanding with Novoselov because at the moment, they’re not in the running for the big titles - they weren’t going to beat Boikova/Kozlovskii no matter how well they skated. As for the lighter makeup, I’m not sure what to think. It gives her a softer look, but I do miss the diva lipstick!

I think she had a little more makeup on at the gala: https://m.vk.com/photos-171223530?z=photo-171223530_457239222/photos-171223530

I heard she had a tryout with Rogonov but it didn’t work out. It’s too late to switch now, so we’d better just start lighting candles for Novoselov’s nerves to hold up.

 

[Mad for Skating]

On the topic of Stolbova/Novoselov: they are entered for the 5th stage of the Russian Cup (domestic competition where pairs qualify for nationals, although they already have a bye) and Golden Spin of Zagreb.

My guess is that they want to compete as many times as they can before Nationals so they can work out any problems and avoid a repeat of the FS at Rostelecom Cup.

 

[Taso]

On the topic of Stolbova/Novoselov: they are entered for the 5th stage of the Russian Cup (domestic competition where pairs qualify for nationals, although they already have a bye) and Golden Spin of Zagreb.

My guess is that they want to compete as many times as they can before Nationals so they can work out any problems and avoid a repeat of the FS at Rostelecom Cup.

I am glad to hear they have these other events coming up, and I hope they have better skates. Starting out in a GP was a funky move if you ask me, I kinda wish they'd skipped it but in this depleted field they did have a medal chance

 

[Mad for Skating]

I am glad to hear they have these other events coming up, and I hope they have better skates. Starting out in a GP was a funky move if you ask me, I kinda wish they'd skipped it but in this depleted field they did have a medal chance

I think they should've done a senior B before the Grand Prix event. That would've given them some time to try competition before getting launched onto the big stage.
I just read on the VK fanpage that apparently Ksenia and Andrei will be withdrawing from the small Russian Cup event because Ksenia is sick. I wish her a speedy recovery and good luck at Golden Spin of Zagreb!

 

[love_skate2011]

M/G lost to MT/M due to PCS deflation
boo

 

[skatingguy]

M/G lost to MT/M due to PCS deflation
boo

Or maybe because Moore-Towers/Marinaro have speed, and performance.

 

[bcash]

The Japanese team looked really good. Never paid attention to them before. Pleasing style and quality elements, with good basics. Are they training in Russia?

 

[Amy L]

The Japanese team looked really good. Never paid attention to them before. Pleasing style and quality elements, with good basics. Are they training in Russia?

This was their competitive debut together, so that's why you couldn't have paid attention to them whether you wanted to or not. They train with Bruno Marcotte in Canada.

Ryuichi Kihara is a two-time Olympian with two different partners, though he has much better chemistry with his current one than he ever did previously. His skating and partnering skills have improved by leaps and bounds.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove]

Or maybe because Moore-Towers/Marinaro have speed, and performance.

Agree! I aint no uber of MT&M (although I am finding him hotter and hotter), but they have uber speed, transitions and are becoming very consistent. I agree they should have the scores they do.

 

[NAOTMAA]

M/G lost to MT/M due to PCS deflation
boo

People here have been pointing out the PCS issue since the start of the season (although mainly in a Russian nationals context). It was alway going to happen this season due to their newness. But if things continue on the same path it will change next season.

Notice they even lost the PCS mark in the SP to the Knierims (who had a fall, were never consistent and not their country's #1) and D-M/G (who due to injury are not prepared at all and didn't break 60 points). Frankly that surprised me considering their mistake was far less costly and they are coming off a win in France but I guess the judges still think they have to pay their dues.

 

[hanca]

Has anyone noticed that Boikova/Kozlovski are two places higher than Mishina/Galliamov with their GP results, and their total score for both events is 36 points higher?

And even though Tarasova/Morozov ended up lower than Mishina/Galliamov according to their placements, their total points is nine points higher than Mishina/Galliamov.

Mishina/Galliamov have a bit of work to do before their are Russian pair #1.

 

[hanca]

M/G lost to MT/M due to PCS deflation
boo

Or perhaps they lost to MT/T because of messed up Salchow in the SP? Besides, M/G do skate a bit heavy, like if it is some effort to get the speed. It would help if they could improve their basic skating skills. Boikova/Kozlovski improved theirs during the off season before they moved to seniors, and the judges noticed too.

 

[love_skate2011]

Has anyone noticed that Boikova/Kozlovski are two places higher than Mishina/Galliamov with their GP results, and their total score for both events is 36 points higher?

And even though Tarasova/Morozov ended up lower than Mishina/Galliamov according to their placements, their total points is nine points higher than Mishina/Galliamov.

Mishina/Galliamov have a bit of work to do before their are Russian pair #1.

maybe but they have been skating better than T/M
also they are almost certain to be top 3 if they skate clean their main competitors will be P/K

 

[hanca]

maybe but they have been skating better than T/M
also they are almost certain to be top 3 if they skate clean their main competitors will be P/K

Maybe. We will have to see.

 

[barbarafan]

People here have been pointing out the PCS issue since the start of the season (although mainly in a Russian nationals context). It was alway going to happen this season due to their newness. But if things continue on the same path it will change next season.

Notice they even lost the PCS mark in the SP to the Knierims (who had a fall, were never consistent and not their country's #1) and D-M/G (who due to injury are not prepared at all and didn't break 60 points). Frankly that surprised me considering their mistake was far less costly and they are coming off a win in France but I guess the judges still think they have to pay their dues.

I also do not understand some of the GOE's......They have truly wow throws and which if the others get 3's they should be getting 5's across the board....Or if they have 4's - others should have 2's.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Mishina/Galliamov are a very talented young pair, but it's their first season in seniors and to expect them to dominate right out of the gate is a little unrealistic. In fact, making the GPF and winning a Grand Prix event is incredible for a first-year senior team, so I think they're doing as well as anyone could expect.
Remember last year when Boikova/Kozlovskii threw down two brilliant performances at Skate Canada and still finished 4th? And now they're getting scores that could rival Sui/Han. If Mishina/Galliamov are destined for greatness, it'll come in the next few years, but they need to build up a reputation first.

 

[aftershocks]

As for the lighter makeup, I’m not sure what to think. It gives her a softer look, but I do miss the diva lipstick!

Somehow Ksenia looks different in addition to seemingly wearing little or no makeup. I can't tell, but it's rumored she did something to her lips. If true, she didn't need to, but to each their own. Good luck to Stol Queen and her newest partner, Novo. He does look like he's trying very hard. He just needs to get over the hump and believe he can do her superb talent and desire the necessary justice.

 

[Doggygirl]

@clairecloutier I just finished reading your article about Zoe and Christopher. This interview must have been so interesting! I had no idea Zoe had such success in adult singles skating before deciding pursue pairs. Your article mentions that they had a Go fund me page at one time to help with training costs. Do you know if that is still active? If so, do you have a link?

 

[clairecloutier]

@clairecloutier I just finished reading your article about Zoe and Christopher. This interview must have been so interesting! I had no idea Zoe had such success in adult singles skating before deciding pursue pairs. Your article mentions that they had a Go fund me page at one time to help with training costs. Do you know if that is still active? If so, do you have a link?

Thanks @Doggygirl--glad you enjoyed the interview!

Zoe & Christopher's GoFundMe page is still open & I'm sure they'd be happy to receive any assistance:

Help us - Worlds 2017 & Next Season organized by Christopher Boyadji

Hello everyone, welcome on our Official Crowdfunding page, and thank you in a… Christopher Boyadji needs your support for Help us - Worlds 2017 & Next Season

www.gofundme.com

 

[Mad for Skating]

Somehow Ksenia looks different in addition to seemingly wearing little or no makeup. I can't tell, but it's rumored she did something to her lips. If true, she didn't need to, but to each their own. Good luck to Stol Queen and her newest partner, Novo. He does look like he's trying very hard. He just needs to get over the hump and believe he can do her superb talent and desire the necessary justice.

Yeah, I think she’s been tweaking her lips since 2018 Europeans, but it’s more obvious now because the rest of her makeup wasn’t so bold. She’s beautiful either way, but if it makes her feel pretty, good for her. Andrei is a strong skater and I think he just needs to calm down and skate, as you said. He doesn’t need to match her skills, he just needs to do his best and let her shine. I’m eager to see them at Golden Spin next week.

 

[Doggygirl]

Thanks @Doggygirl--glad you enjoyed the interview!

Zoe & Christopher's GoFundMe page is still open & I'm sure they'd be happy to receive any assistance:

Help us - Worlds 2017 & Next Season organized by Christopher Boyadji

Hello everyone, welcome on our Official Crowdfunding page, and thank you in a… Christopher Boyadji needs your support for Help us - Worlds 2017 & Next Season

www.gofundme.com

Thanks @clairecloutier! My donation is pretty small but I'm sure every little bit helps!

 

[nimi]

First it was announced that Stolbova/Novoselov will miss RusNats due to his injury, now there's bad news about Z/E. Apparently Enbert's health issues continue...

So, You Want To Watch FS on Twitter

“Pairs skaters Natalia Zabiiako / Alexander Enbert (RUS) will not compete at Russian Nationals due to medical reasons. https://t.co/dUu36jZqg2”

twitter.com

 

[Amy L]

I assumed something like that had happened. Natalia seemingly (according to her instagram) spent all summer and autumn in Los Angeles with her fiance, and there was no news about Z&E at all, I figured that Enbert still didn't get medical clearance yet. If his pulse can't go over a certain rate, I can't imagine that he has something that's easily fixable. He hasn't announced anything new in 6+ months, so probably there's no changes/improvements.