Pairs Discussion Thread 2017-18--"Two Skating as One"

[barbarafan]

I just asked for more info in the German thread. I hope somebody there knows something... I tried a bit of googling and got some info from a gov website:...but then I hit a dead end. There were no links to what how that language exam is conducted and what rules apply etc.

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ETA: An answer from the German thread...

Thank-you....so at least there is no limit.

 

[angi]

Bruno citizenship issues will start giving me anxiety soon...

 

[nimi]

There's an article about the North Korean pair in NYT called "North Korea Skaters Seek Olympic Bid, and Diplomats Cheer". The angle is of course focused on geopolitics, but still, figure skating and Nebelhorn getting some media attention.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/sports/olympics/north-korea-winter-olympics.html

This was news to me:

If North Korean athletes fail to qualify, Olympic officials have said they will consider wild-card entries for North Korean athletes to encourage the country to participate.

 

[arakwafan2006]

Why the hell can't i see Tarasova/Morozov's short program? What it so good YouTube can't contain it?

 

[nimi]

Why the hell can't i see Tarasova/Morozov's short program? What it so good YouTube can't contain it?

Well, it was too good for the bloody stream to contain, yesterday... Everybody watching saw just the beginning and very end.

Unless the organizers make some kind of back-up recording available, we might not get to see it at all in the tubes, as fan cams were strictly prohibited in the arena (or so I've heard).

 

[alexikeguchi]

So it looks like NKorea just qualified for the Olympics! I look forward to seeing more of this pair.

ETA I really enjoyed their performance quality. I hope they can become a fan favorite like Hurtado/Diaz in Ice Dance in 2014.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Well, it was too good for the bloody stream to contain, yesterday... Everybody watching saw just the beginning and very end.

Unless the organizers make some kind of back-up recording available, we might not get to see it at all in the tubes, as fan cams were strictly prohibited in the arena (or so I've heard).

I don't even care about the short anymore. I now want to hear what people think of the free.

 

[nimi]

I don't even care about the short anymore. I now want to hear what people think of the free.

Well... I'm not really buying what Evgenia&Vladimir are selling. Acting isn't their strong point, esp with her trying to act flirty and him... well... trying to be her one stop shop who makes the panties drop... (However true that might be IRL it just doesn't come across on ice.)

OTOH I appreciate they're not skating to 'Music' again. This Xtina/boogie woogie music cut isn't the most coherent but I've heard worse. Maybe they get better at acting as they grow more comfortable with the program and I won't feel second-hand embarrassment for them around the time Euros and Olys roll around. We'll see.

Oh, also judges seem to like what they see, which is what actually matters. Nines in PCS all around, even in performance & interpretation... (protocol)

ETA: IIRC their 4Tw looked scary on the way down (the catch was... not great) but somehow they managed to get some +GOE on that so yeah...

 

[Ka3sha]

Aliona/Bruno's free is just
And I'm sure that it will look better and better every time they perform it

Now I'm waiting for the great Carmen from Stolbova/Klimov
And that my dream podium (S/M, S/K, S/H in any order) will come true at Olympics

 

[Xela M]

Aliona/Bruno's free is just
And I'm sure that it will look better and better every time they perform it

Now I'm waiting for the great Carmen from Stolbova/Klimov
And that my dream podium (S/M, S/K, S/H in any order) will come true at Olympics

In ANY order?! S/M at the top is the only acceptable order!

 

[Xela M]

Well... I'm not really buying what Evgenia&Vladimir are selling. Acting isn't their strong point, esp with her trying to act flirty and him... well... trying to be her one stop shop who makes the panties drop... (However true that might be IRL it just doesn't come across on ice.)
...

Just

 

[millyskate]

I feels like James & Cipres are the most ready at the start of the season, having struck a balance between having a palatable programme and being in good shape with their elements. A very, very long way to go though!

Aljona and Bruno have a potentially great programme but I'm still not sold on their tactics. I struggle to understand why they don't go for the quad twist and focus on landing solid triple throws, it feels like it would be enough. With the triple axel, it looks like they're risking injury every time. It's a scarier throw than some of the quads.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Aliona/Bruno's free is just

O-M-G... I watched it in bed last night.. THIS FREE has to be I think the best free skate I may have ever seen ever. SO INNOVATIVE. And this is factoring in Mishkutenok & Dmitriev and Brasseur & Eisler.

I thought their free skate is the most interesting pairs program I have ever seen. WOW.

However their sp I was not the biggest fan of. I don't think thats their style...

But can I say their free skate.. I think this IS the best program I have ever seen.... SO INTERESTING!!!!!!

Wow......

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Aljona and Bruno have a potentially great programme but I'm still not sold on their tactics. I struggle to understand why they don't go for the quad twist and focus on landing solid triple throws, it feels like it would be enough.

Makes sense to me.. The 4 twist seems like they could learn in 3 minutes, and be confident with it after 2 days..

I say don't go for those throws as they are nowhere near 50% with them.

I SO appreciate this team!!!!!

 

[kittysk8ts]

Well... I'm not really buying what Evgenia&Vladimir are selling. Acting isn't their strong point, esp with her trying to act flirty and him... well... trying to be her one stop shop who makes the panties drop... (However true that might be IRL it just doesn't come across on ice.)

OTOH I appreciate they're not skating to 'Music' again. This Xtina/boogie woogie music cut isn't the most coherent but I've heard worse. Maybe they get better at acting as they grow more comfortable with the program and I won't feel second-hand embarrassment for them around the time Euros and Olys roll around. We'll see.

Oh, also judges seem to like what they see, which is what actually matters. Nines in PCS all around, even in performance & interpretation... (protocol)

ETA: IIRC their 4Tw looked scary on the way down (the catch was... not great) but somehow they managed to get some +GOE on that so yeah...

I have been thinking on this since yesterday. My mind has not changed. This program is not for them, IMHO. Just UGH. Their skating, while not perfect here, remains glorious, classical, precise. Just lovely and they as people are so aesthetically pleasing to me. I understand that their personalities are somewhat subdued and that Mozer et al. are choosing music that helps them along. But this music choice and packaging wasn't it. I wish they had sent this team to Dubreuil. Apologies for the negativity

 

[Xela M]

I have been thinking on this since yesterday. My mind has not changed. This program is not for them, IMHO. Just UGH. Their skating, while not perfect here, remains glorious, classical, precise. Just lovely and they as people are so aesthetically pleasing to me. I understand that their personalities are somewhat subdued and that Mozer et al. are choosing music that helps them along. But this music choice and packaging wasn't it. I wish they had sent this team to Dubreuil. Apologies for the negativity

Absolutely. It's actually a serious challenge to make this team look this bad, but Mozer manages to outdo herself every year

 

[nimi]

Absolutely. It's actually a serious challenge to make this team look this bad, but Mozer manages to outdo herself every year

This season it was Tchernyshev who choreographed BOTH of their programs. He did their successful SP last season and in general, he's a highly regarded choreographer responsible for e.g. Kavaguti/Smirnov programs like Manfred Symphony and Clair de Lune.

I'm starting to think Mozer is not to blame, it's T/M themselves who have some kind of reverse Midas touch. You know, every program they touch just turns into a bland cheesefest. Can't be helped. Last season's SP being an exception to the rule where Tchernyshev managed to combine their brand of cheese with the annoyingly catchy music and the result was actually pretty enjoyable, but even his choreographer powers aren't enough to overcome T/M's cheesy curse this season...

 

[Ka3sha]

In ANY order?! S/M at the top is the only acceptable order!

I luuurve all three pairs, so yes, in ANY order
I'd be happy for Aliona if she finally wins that Olympic gold medal but I'd be equally happy for both S/K and S/H if they skate perfectly after all their injuries and win that medal as well.
Just hope that everyone will stay healthy this season and bring us great pleasure with their performances

 

[kittysk8ts]

This season it was Tchernyshev who choreographed BOTH of their programs. He did their successful SP last season and in general, he's a highly regarded choreographer responsible for e.g. Kavaguti/Smirnov programs like Manfred Symphony and Clair de Lune.

I'm starting to think Mozer is not to blame, it's T/M themselves who have some kind of reverse Midas touch. You know, every program they touch just turns into a bland cheesefest. Can't be helped. Last season's SP being an exception to the rule where Tchernyshev managed to combine their brand of cheese with the annoyingly catchy music and the result was actually pretty enjoyable, but even his choreographer powers aren't enough to overcome T/M's cheesy curse this season...

Mozer has the final say though. And I like most of Tchernyshev's work. And yes, they took the success of last year's short and tried to duplicate it in this free. For me, it didn't work.

 

[nimi]

Mozer has the final say though.

Yeah, and had she vetoed these programs before we saw them and then ordered new ones to be choreographed (e.g. given them POTO or other warhorses that some people on FSU have suggested would've been preferable to this Xtina/boogiewoogie thingy), this thread would be full of people blaming Mozer for not letting T/M skate to the music & programs they themselves wanted to skate to and how it's Mozer's fault they are so boring and why does she sabotage T/M and scrap the programs that Tchernyshev himself made for them etc. etc.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Yeah, and had she vetoed these programs before we saw them and then ordered new ones to be choreographed (e.g. given them POTO or other warhorses that some people on FSU have suggested would've been preferable to this Xtina/boogiewoogie thingy), this thread would be full of people blaming Mozer for not letting T/M skate to the music & programs they themselves wanted to skate to and how it's Mozer's fault they are so boring and why does she sabotage T/M and scrap the programs that Tchernyshev himself made for them etc. etc.

This is true as well, haha. Well, I've said quite enough on this subject and I thank you for this exchange. I will now cross my fingers for them and wish them a good season

 

[nimi]

^ Looking at how well they skated their elements and how generously they were scored in PCS @ Nebelhorn I have a feeling they're gonna be just fine!

 

[aftershocks]

James/Cipres are interviewed by GoldenSkate (Ted Flett): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Lyke6pE5Q

My God, they are so candid and refreshing. Vanessa's discussion of training the quad and how they are approaching it, and comparing her technique to Meagan's is so enlightening. Wow, I just bow down with respect more and more to skaters whenever I learn the nitty-gritty behind-the-scenes daily grind details of what they do in order to compete, and to make the tough, next-to-impossible stuff look oh so easy on the ice!

It's also cool how they show respect to Meagan and Eric, and describe what it's been like training with them.

Vanessa & Morgan are so good that they seem to enhance the interviewer (Ted Flett) and make him look good too. Of course, Ted asks some good questions generally. But I love how articulate and engaging and honest Vanessa et Morgan are. The part where Ted asks if they are considering a quad twist, and Vanessa looks at the camera and goes "NO!"

Then Vanessa explains how hard it is just to do a 3-twist, and how long she and Morgan worked on improving their 3-twist. Once again, it brings home to me just how hard it is to be a pairs skater. It's tough skating as a singles skater too, but I think being a pairs skater is double the difficulty, and as a fan I will admit taking skaters, and especially pairs skaters a bit for granted. If I do, I know a lot of other people do, because my tendency is more to try and understand the difficulty of what skaters go through. But seriously, I have to take a step back and realize that I (and many of us) have a lot of high expectations of the skaters we love without realizing how hard they have to work to be good, and how extra hard they must work to attain consistency and to reach a higher competitive level. Oh my!

So Vanessa realizes that she will be two-footing on the quad-throw landing until she can gradually become more comfortable to the point of landing the quad on one foot. Her main goal right now is to stand up on it and gradually get the feel and control to land it on one foot. And Morgan was cute and absolutely right in pointing out that it's a team effort. They both must be in a good mood and prepared and fit and in sync because the timing that's required is so precise. Ahhhmazing! I'm sure that's why Savchenko/Massot are finding it difficult to land the 3-axel, although it's clear S/M have improved to where Aliona is gaining a lot of distance on the throw. Now she needs greater control.

Also, Vanessa et Morgan discussing how they chose their new program music is very revealing. Cool that Morgan chose the fp music, and Vanessa eventually found the sp music and everyone immediately knew Ed Sheeran's Make It Rain would work (after they'd had trouble settling on the right sp music). It really goes to show that finding the right music can take awhile. It's good that with their team approach, J/C did not settle for something that wasn't just right (Hint, Hint to some other top teams!) It's also good to know how Maxime Rodriguez works magic cutting and enhancing J/C's music in order to make it work for the program time lengths.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Aliona/Bruno are just over-rated, imo. Mismatched, ugly...ugly connection. Lack of refinement and skating skills on his part. Is she ever going to land a throw? And I just can't fully get behind her after the little games she played with Robin.

Morgan/Cipres...do not like the swagger he tries to pull off. It's very douchey to me. Good technique but dodgy quality, and the programs are more like an Ashley Wagner type program. Mostly effect that comes from the music.

Neither team should be that close to Sui/Han and Stolbova/Klimov as they are in components; the difference should be more on the order of 5 points at least. Even Tarasova and Morozov when it comes to skating skills.

 

[myhoneyhoney]

50/50 on topic and off topic: Katia Gordeeva and David Pelletier performing a death spiral. Gorgeous!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZzv8cVh8Ay/

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

50/50 on topic and off topic: Katia and David performing a death spiral. Gorgeous!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZzv8cVh8Ay/

THANKS for sharing that,.

Refresh my drink... who is David?

 

[myhoneyhoney]

THANKS for sharing that,.

Refresh my drink... who is David?

Glad you like it! David Pelletier

 

[chantilly]

David's position in that death spiral is gorgeous.

 

[Sylvia]

Gordeeva & Pelletier made their pairs debut in her Lake Placid "From the Heart" show in late December 2015 and this is a fan cam video of the second exhibition program they skated together ("Autumn Leaves" performed by Charlotte Cardin-Goyer) in the Stars on Ice Lake Placid show on December 30, 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrYaCFnpbLA

 

[Bellanca]

Aliona/Bruno are just over-rated, imo. Mismatched, ugly...ugly connection. Lack of refinement and skating skills on his part. Is she ever going to land a throw? And I just can't fully get behind her after the little games she played with Robin.

Morgan/Cipres...do not like the swagger he tries to pull off. It's very douchey to me. Good technique but dodgy quality, and the programs are more like an Ashley Wagner type program. Mostly effect that comes from the music.

Neither team should be that close to Sui/Han and Stolbova/Klimov as they are in components; the difference should be more on the order of 5 points at least. Even Tarasova and Morozov when it comes to skating skills.

In spite of the fact that I do not agree with your entire post, certain points you've made had me enjoying a few laughs, as well as agreeing with you. Example: Douchey swagger is never a good thing... in skating or otherwise.